Also in this playlist...
This transcript is automatically generated
-- me in the studio Manuel is our own Catherine Herridge is normally in Washington but now we're like -- have to hammer in New York.
And you're -- to capacity issue here is your -- years.
We're on my clock -- on the air here.
And the author of a really provocative book that I just spent the last three hours reading from a list of the whole thing I don't.
And the next play.
Which leave which is about al-Qaeda what's next for al-Qaeda and American workers -- tell -- -- -- economical.
I tried to write it that way this just like I hear Johnny educators what's gonna happen next -- called into the -- -- the -- -- boxer Carl Everett of the white archer at the Pentagon here getting breaking news and it really is I mean it's not a boring dry read about.
A bunch of cables this is like your right to bear has al-Qaeda is making the next move -- -- you read a book.
That I thought anyone could pick up and really kind of educate themselves on this issue and I tried to make it is nonfiction but it's really an action adventure I kind of take you along for the ride.
Are an investigation and you discover the facts right along with me.
And I think people who read the book we'll see -- that what we find together is really shocking.
And in some ways it makes you extremely angry -- when the book came back from the printer -- -- you know many times but I hadn't read in the final form and when I read it.
I don't really kind of pissed off at the end in the sense that I felt like we were still.
Fighting this war with one hand -- behind our backs.
And I think that's going to be tough in this next chapter -- the next wave.
Because so many Americans.
Are at the heart of al-Qaeda now in a way that they just -- a decade ago you know what we're talking about Afghanistan okay so -- -- -- Afghanistan was to destroy defeat deny al-Qaeda but you're saying you know are kind of moved up.
Because moved on died in a major way one of the things that I describe in the book is al-Qaeda 2.0 this new generation.
-- recruits and how they're radicalized and their digital to -- -- these are people who use our own technology against us and so there on email thereon.
Blogs they're using YouTube -- -- and this cleric in Yemen who's really the master of it right but the FaceBook frenzy around -- that's right.
He's the first person on the CIA's kill or capture list and there's a section in the book where I take you through how I get this audio message.
From the clear and more -- lock -- and this this crazy process it begins where they ask me for 30000 dollars but you know here at fox we don't pay.
For news and I finally get him to back down the price and I kind of go through all these hoops to get the tape.
And it's ultimately in this file sharing website that's covered in porn Simon this kind of porn site trying to find -- al-Qaeda tape and I think -- I know fox illegals gonna -- and -- I see Catherine O'Hara has -- friends -- my research and it's just a good example of how they use their technology against us.
And how -- like to think that these may be crazy people living in -- -- because of their ideas but they're really very sophisticated and can't be underestimated and again.
More Americans than ever before had joined al-Qaeda and because we've wiped at the leadership -- you cry whatever on.
In Afghanistan and Pakistan Americans have now risen through the ranks to have fear at least senior positions.
And these -- American citizens who find their radar Kyra kind of -- well it's a little it's a little bit of both when you look at the American -- came Marlon lucky he was born here he was raised territories about -- -- and you've got great pictures and Vargas -- -- -- I'd never let your neck.
My favorite picture though is of and more a -- he when he got picked up by the cops in San Diego in 1997 because on the one hand he presents himself.
As a holy man but on the other hand.
He had this really long rap sheet here in the United States that person -- prostitutes have -- -- to school so I like to use that picture a lot because.
One of the frustrations in the book and I think the readers will agree is that I just don't quite understand what the US government doesn't exploit his criminal record more.
When they talk about him to the public because it would discredit him.
To some of his followers -- right because re supposed to be this following -- necessity and foreign size bedspread all of this and there's one section of the book right -- -- his old mosque in San Diego and I speak to this guy.
We have to conceal his identity but he was a long time to hottest convert in the US to -- is -- went to Bosnia and Chechnya.
And he says this guy a lucky while he was giving prayers he should just said.
You know here's how you live your life -- on the other hand why don't you just find cheap hookers on this side of the street and -- he's that you it was such a conflict.
On for him and -- -- and interesting because he says pardon me he says.
This guy's just giving our religion a bad game and you know this guy is not what our religion.
Is about and that part of the book to me is really important because I think if we're gonna fight this war effectively we can't draw the line with religion we have to draw the line and say.
Where on one side and the terrorists are on the other because they're trying to use religion and our liberties to drive a wedge between us.
Okay and if anybody by the way when he interviews finished on the website the factors that that we have an excerpt from the book.
And if you can find out more about you about the book about -- you very much -- that's just terrific but it's -- to me more about.
Quick question next wave is okay so we've had already tied at one point -- -- you're talking about and that is that we really have.
Not defeat everybody in a lot of progress I think you'll be hard to argue that we have made a lot of progress the death of bin Laden is significant and you've reported on -- -- But in many ways been -- -- -- of yesterday's news because what we see is these American recruits have risen through the ranks of these al-Qaeda affiliates or franchises in Somalia for example also in Yemen.
One of the operational commanders in Pakistan is a young man he was race in South Florida.
The chief mouthpiece for al-Qaeda in Pakistan is that young man from California -- good time right and the person behind this.
To digital magazine for would be jihadist -- I admire the snake skinny leather I've got a taste that bad that they inspire magazine.
Is like -- Martha Stewart -- saying yes.
I I was like and it's been Oprah's the -- for these for these folks but.
But you -- -- try -- make the book.
Really accessible to people I try and make it real easy to read and to understand and not a lot of crazy names and -- make it complicated and this this new group and you hit right off the bat.
This group is a problem because they may not be in the same numbers.
But because they lived here they grew up here and they -- in the system.
They can use that system against us in a way that someone who was born overseas could not and you know here's one example.
Last fall we had that cargo printer bomb plot that was yes throw bombs that were meant to blow up over how easy edit with UBS yes right bombs.
This -- -- -- the cartridges with this non metallic explosive.
And they were timed to go off over the eastern seaboard the United States.
Well I talked to a number of counterterrorism officials who said to me we really believe.
That al-Qaeda in Yemen was able to time these devices based on the UPS or FedEx tracking system.
And on the web because there was a dry run so they saw how my hope for the -- -- you can.
Yeah yeah I know I never let eBay item I ordered it went out of guys and you know -- in -- here it's in Kentucky are rare it is and -- it to me only an American minutemen would have known that an understood.
And I thought that was such.
You know a great example -- also a frightening illustration.
Of really what we're facing in the -- -- potentially facing.
In the future and the reason the book got started was after Ford who -- if the writers for The Fox Report.
-- me Catherine why is it that Americans who -- old enough to remember 9/11 and have less than a decade later turned their back.
On their own country.
How to people who remember the collapse of the Twin Towers yeah these are the people who were these gridiron -- and a fruits and tiny.
How was that kind of dumbfounded by the question I I didn't know the answer and the more research I did the more I found all roads lead back to this cleric in Yemen.
His lectures on the wed his diatribes his videos his kind of with a dear Abby of the jihadist world people would email him all the time with their problems so -- personality traits that you see that are certainly not just the ones who are there.
Now have a higher ups but the guy who has decided he's going to be -- -- jihadist he's gonna strap himself up and he's right up left something out.
Well based on the.
Research in the book and I interviewed some -- -- Allen his trail -- legend in the US intelligence community.
I he sits need based on the data that he -- analyze what -- side is set in many cases these were American citizens who would come quick come years young children and then eventually.
A naturalized to become US citizens -- -- -- -- reason.
They never really assimilated or integrated in the same way.
Another generation of previous generation had so there is that sense of disconnected nest and -- just my own analysis based on the research.
I think -- generation we're looking at here connects.
Virtually in a way that my generation and or your generation does not.
Because when I spoke to this young man who had been in the clerics mosque in San Diego.
He talked about this really close group of friends he had and what I realizes he was actually talking about them -- never met them these -- just.
You know his friends in this group that they had formed in these were all people who are Muslim converts who would other -- to fight on behalf of the United States in Iraq.
Or had gone in his case to fight on behalf of his religion in Bosnia and Chechnya.
I thought -- you know I.
-- that is a generational thing I don't.
I would never call someone on the web I've never met one of my best friends but for him.
They really were so I do think some of it is.
Generational because for a long time.
People in the intelligence community felt.
That you had to contact like we're having now face to face in person to person kind of the mentoring thing where where they had to go to Pakistan change its act -- not exactly am.
And crossed that threshold to violence.
But that seems to be less and less in the case when you look at Fort Hood.
Many major Nadal has signed who had this email relationship.
But the clear it does seem that people are able to establish that.
Virtually in -- way they never did before.
Okay they'll finally.
When you're talking about.
What I think what you do about this and -- in five years for an hour re not saying it's the kid next -- down the basement -- never really had a good life and high school.
Mean what do you what do you do -- -- -- enemy with -- yeah IE and I mean my own opinion I.
I don't really express my opinion in the book is very -- factual as they go through the book but I think that.
We had to do a better job creating a counter messenger -- Kennard near differently.
To put out -- -- people whose view.
Undermined their message in many respects mean we all know that al-Qaeda is responsible for killing more Muslims with the -- than any other crew but you know this is very powerful information.
A case in point will be the cleric in Yemen with a long criminal record why don't we.
-- taking -- I have my only not X so it Allen and we're imagining that psychological operation psychological operations but that is.
Yes kind of like a dirty word when you talk to people.
And intelligence and I had little bit.
Let me very very effective during the Cold War right if you go back anybody -- -- movies about World War II -- they're calling the enemy the Germans and Nazis and Japanese.
And their -- train them in a -- it's probably gonna sell politically incorrect today Brent do you think that's part of -- hesitation or not treating them as a significant enemy as we haven't -- I think.
-- the hesitation may be that were in many cases talking about American citizens from -- and we're not talking about.
Russians were not talking about Germans and attacking the Japanese as we have been in previous broke conflicts are talking about Americans -- with fans.
So -- again finding when -- remain looking at all these people are these people who work.
Religion that they were religious and then it became more extremist in their religion and then found a great amounts over a -- now -- people.
Who -- around their rate of violence -- -- incidentally very quickly decided to convert.
Too radical and he reminded some of these cases like the American forms Southern California at a good time who is mouthpiece for al-Qaeda and Pakistan and out one of indicate -- -- -- -- -- well he's the mouthpiece I would Bryant he has a lot of control but he certainly the public face.
For them to the west.
They use him basically in because they don't really respect him because he is.
American and he's actually Jewish and he converted to -- and Islam and when he converted to this sort of radical.
I mean let's say it's this -- religion but you know this radical way of thinking.
He became more and more extreme and there's this theory infamous episode where he has this kind of punch out with this.
Is being strict enough -- conservative.
Enough so what use well I at least have seen in my research is people.
They convert to this radical way of thinking.
And then they connect themselves with others who think the same way.
And then you have some small group dynamics that kind of read themselves up and I agree with you agree honey can -- are -- and -- very much like that and -- you can give us.
Each -- -- -- OK so he's gonna talk about drawing down.
And he's probably gonna talk about al-Qaeda or some way they weren't told what to take away -- or are we -- fighting a war in Afghanistan because of al-Qaeda.
Really fighting a war in Afghanistan because -- -- kind of because we lead the battle her qaeda's been within Pakistan itself.
-- -- the elephant in the room in my prediction is that the -- -- draw down will not be all that.
Precipitous because I think the president's gonna wanna keep a lid on things Afghanistan.
At least through 2012.
But I think the -- -- really recognition than a decade after 9/11 the threat has really shifted increasingly we're talking about Yemen that's where the next CIA drone campaign.
And that's where -- -- that's right.
I want it's as I isn't real long time to get that name that's -- -- without planning that what is got a lot of fun and yeah sit down and get this is our part of your -- so much -- just your reporting for your fox newscast.
The connection between the Pakistani government intelligence service military not cut.
-- I just think that you need to look at the case of the modern and what's happened over the last decade -- what you see is almost every major killer captured in Pakistan has been a major urban center.
Khalid Sheikh Mohamed was picked up in Rawalpindi another big garrison town Ramzi Binalshibh was picked up in the port of Karachi Pakistan.
More recently this guy whom architect who was linked to the -- bombings and -- area as of some -- -- laden.
It's no coincidence.
That every big catch is in the major urban center in Pakistan that's clearly the pattern hiding in plain afraid and we really hard to believe -- -- -- -- -- right here stamp.
Hiding out in -- eating bugs temperatures -- so somebody protecting.
Well I think you have to conclude at some level they are having some protection what I've been interested to try and learn and I haven't yet is who was responsible.
For that -- building that compound in the bottom -- because the ways -- described to me by US officials.
Is that it may not really look like much.
When you see the video of it.
But it was very well designed so that they could never get a clear shot inside the compound they could never get a shot that allowed -- to establish.
Paul how -- that mystery man was inside the compound and that took a lot of engineering.
To do -- -- wasn't just a kind of a pickup construction top rate.
You know I you know I always believe in my reporting.
You see this information stacking up and in this kind of work it's just not coincident -- -- -- I.
Also I got Pakistan a who as a journalist.
Who said that exactly what you were saying that it was a very usual building and I can't that's right he said -- -- only building anywhere near that could look down into it.
-- is and -- reconstructed building there with an army Pakistani army major.
It was an active duty major and he was a doctor and -- was a kidney specialist.
Robbie gadget lab mix and I sat.
I a French is a former prosecutor and to and one night.
Was doing the research for the book -- I lay up quite a case that in fact this cleric in Yemen.
Was an overlook key player in 9/11 -- which is one of the big headlines in the book.
And he said to me you know -- I used to tell the jury that if you go into a forest and you find a turtle on a tree stump.
He didn't see the person put in there but you know he didn't get there himself.
And they're EM.
On a personal level if you worry about your own security and you -- somebody who is right.
That's a good question.
You know I never really how my god -- -- -- area.
I literally have IE and you know that my a my husband's in the military so I'm in a military family.
And I think one of the things that you'll see through the book is that there's a real passion to the reporting.
Because our families feeling the impact how you cannot get him again that's right yeah I've got a daughter makes them any and we know military people who are bearing -- -- and and what it really air support and what it really means and I I've.
You know a few years ago our youngest son.
Nearly died it's a long story that I'm not -- to bore you with the details.
But I think when you go through experience like fatter your husband's deployed in Afghanistan.
He really changes you know way that you don't expect and I.
Really added that experience got the courage in the -- just in my reporting to take on the subject you know -- -- I don't think I could have five years ago.
So I -- Don't think and apparently same -- -- now I I just I -- an arm and I got and a retired in government before -- interpret those are probably shouldn't -- -- -- Well yeah I read it and I've -- governor had a great career and and I retired.
After -- won the Cold War and after September 11 where and I lost friends and my my best friend's daughters.
And my kids came to me especially want my daughter.
And said mom are we gonna just take this are we gonna fight back right and you really feel that he -- you know that every American has a world planes.
And yours is obviously -- very important one.
Taking the story to the American people finding now digging deeper.
I think everybody in this country as a world supply -- like -- -- it was ten years ago a lot of people Africa.
And -- shouldn't forget because it could happen again well especially with this next -- I think with bin Laden's death there was that sense.
You know the stories over the chapters because where you know where we're done with that but as you point out al-Qaeda has really -- moved on and what I showing this book.
Is something that was told me many years ago by a guy who used to be a weapons inspector in Iraq he -- me terrorism.
It's like water it takes the path of least resistance and it's a thinking enemy you move one way and it moves another.
And no truer words were ever spoken to me about the subject and I've just in this book tried to.
A story that anyone can pick up.
And read and I think they'll enjoy it and I think in the process educate themselves about the war in the future and what it's gonna look like and what it's -- analyst -- I think based on the it's not going away I mean -- -- via the line here is that -- is -- bin Laden's gone.
About the threat of international terrorism and Islamic Jihad that's not -- Well I had I had via the benefit of drawing -- some of the contacts that builds up in Washington I interviewed the former CIA director Michael Hayden got a lot of different and he describes.
That he that he believes the attack -- the future will be these smaller scale attacks -- -- Mumbai style commando style.
Attacks and they -- -- at Times Square bomber how little a little bit like that may be a group a twelve people.
Backpacks with explosives.
Guns and they're all on suicide mission in the all -- in the process that they did.
In Mumbai India and Mumbai over 180 people were killed that's not nearly on the scale of 9/11 but you know when that happened 2008.
All we signed TV for three days was that hotel on fire.
That's -- -- -- and that's been a huge economic impact on India and that is one of their ultimate goals to cripple the economy.
While okay we're Katherine Harris who is the author of the next wave go to the foxnews.com website look for the on the -- -- You'll see an excerpt of the book.
And our own Catherine -- -- -- -- very thank you very much work you've done -- this instance tell Obama that -- -- to thank you very much good happening every ear person.
Filter by section