Special Report Online: 1/25
Breaking down the politics of Keystone XL
- Duration 27:46
- Date Jan 25, 2012
Breaking down the politics of Keystone XL
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Well into another edition of special report on line I'm Bret -- if you haven't been here before.
Welcome aboard this is where you can ask questions or comment.
Interact with the panel just type away our producers are putting those.
Things in the middle there all the time if you don't see yours don't get frustrated it's coming thousands are on line.
As we speak we'll also have throughout the time here some polls that you can vote on and and we'll bring that to you let's bring in our panel Steve -- and Charles.
We had a heated discussion that we had to cut off there about the keystone XL pipeline you were saying -- That you were comparing it to let's say George Kaiser who bundled money for Solyndra.
Yeah or -- -- imagine if George Soros was involved in the deal you can imagine hackles that would raise among Republicans who think wait a second.
What a what the involvement this fellow in this deal with so controversial and being so supported on a partisan basis by the opposition but do you think that -- Waxman knows that the Coen Brothers are somehow I don't know what -- and -- but why would -- raise it.
I don't see they've set explicitly and directly in a statement from the company.
They have no that they have no I don't know nothing to do with the project nothing to do -- shift in the oil and -- -- is that.
So Linda is a pipe to me.
Supported by ideologues and it failed.
The pipeline summit if for example already exists a part of it already into Oklahoma already -- it works -- is behind this kind of flaky.
Has done a flaky a witness on this issue it's a serious partner here they -- -- they haven't paid they built already the first part of it.
There's this is a serious proposition and it concern you have -- go -- A little -- call for.
Which is I admire and I and I have sympathy with.
He what you're missing is a fact it is already crisscrossed.
Miles of pipeline.
Which is I pointed out once before is enough to circle -- At the equator so if he is so damaging.
To have that over the aquifer why hasn't anybody complainant.
We -- poisoning that you're so worried.
The governor did complaint and the people of Nebraska didn't complain and get this is not the case that some -- -- -- But let me say one week he agreed to a different -- slightly less and -- so -- I guess the question is if you haven't administration.
-- that for example look at the EPA ozone rule and said you know what this makes doesn't make a lot of sense we need to cut this thing happened they took a lot of heat.
From environmentalists -- doing that right.
How can -- look at this and say.
It's better or more environmentally damaging -- the EPA ozone.
School I wouldn't know how to you know I -- as far as jobs.
Well as far as jobs and in the whole jobs thing -- -- -- aired Cornell University which did some study of this.
That is nowhere near 20000 -- you're talking more about like 6000 jobs most of which are temporary jobs.
But so -- I'm I'm not.
Claiming any expertise youngest thing this is a matter some dispute and yet you hear from Republicans all it's gonna create so many jobs jobs jobs jobs and the I think it covers over a lot of sense and it becomes political you're just -- And assist the president will -- the pipeline in April or may.
Let's see Bridget from -- Mexico says the pipeline is private.
We're 500 million dollars was.
Given to salute and yet 500 vendors and -- -- -- if you wanna get into comparisons between Sandra and to Keystone Pipeline don't think it's very good ground for Democrats.
-- was approved in sixty days this has been staying -- and it was push by cronies of the Obama administration George Kaiser.
And others who stood to benefit.
From this money went to -- This is -- excuse us excuse me.
That's what Charles was saying that -- that that's -- the -- anyone raising the Coke Brothers that's ridiculous and here you I think well right between the fundamental difference is that in the Solyndra it was clear you can point to George Kaiser who was pushing the project who stood to benefit.
The Coke Brothers have nothing to do with -- they put out a statement today I think we have right let's just take -- what is so there.
The keystone -- and humanity is different than Solyndra not funded by tax -- -- -- not that that's what I'm saying I'm saying if you're gonna say it is it did your animal if you're gonna save -- 500 and we are zero.
Yet none of totally different that's not the argument the argument was about bringing in the name of people who are highly political big dollar folks who -- who might.
Benefit from the project that we're gonna select.
Do exactly what you're suggesting we should do you know who would benefit from this project Warren Buffett is a big supporter public support of the president.
His ripped the railroad that he's involved that he owns.
Could stand to benefit handsomely because some of this some of these barrels of oil will be going via railroad at the pipeline is not felt.
Potentially meeting hundreds of millions of dollars according to a report that -- -- For Warren Buffett.
I'm I'm not suggesting that the president made the decision to enrich Warren Buffett but if you want.
Have -- examination of who might benefit the Coke Brothers have nothing to do with us and Henry Waxman insist on bringing up Warren Buffett almost certainly would benefit from this type on not being built.
And that's not part of the.
Descending towards California Warren -- stance -- -- the pipeline doesn't go through his railroad investment will pay off with carrying oil tankers from Canada.
Betsy from Scottsdale says -- one Scotch.
He doesn't for an honest -- something he drinks.
Steve asks what's -- mind -- it's American flag pin okay trips.
Well I I don't look.
I don't care who benefits.
From this pipeline and the analogy -- games.
If you know some mystery and around the world -- dictator only content company they gave us.
The cure for cancer would be -- canceled.
The -- thing was a speculative pie in the sky idea that could only have gotten a sixty day approval.
Because it had the Packers with a whisper within -- year in the White House and in the Energy Department where there's a pipeline.
Stand on its own any objective observer would no interest in this would look at this and say the reasons are overwhelming in favor of it.
I mean it's almost impossible to find -- -- -- of the Washington -- post editorial page.
Hardly a right -- Ranks as assistant slam dunk.
And that's the reason why so incomprehensible that you want to bring in the Coen Brothers if it has nothing to do with -- pipeline and the virtues of the pipeline.
Kennedy and people -- -- that many Democrats are on record saying that this is.
Something that needs to go through.
-- will want one more wannabe child is right about the speculative nature of excellent.
And the difference between that and what we're seeing -- with the pipeline is profound if you look at.
What the International Energy Agency says about the use of fossil fuels twenty years from now.
We're talking about 75% of energy consumption in twenty years from now we'll still be fossil fuel so we know that we're going to be using.
This energy its either gonna come to us by the pipeline it'll come to us in part -- get to Houston in part.
Because it will be taking it -- will be transported via rail or worst case scenario it won't come to us we're not much -- -- -- -- -- -- it will go to -- An argument with that with with with your numbers yes we rely on fossil fuels.
But the question is about the environment and how much you know sacrifice you make.
To support across New England or -- answers -- be higher greenhouse emissions if if the type one does not -- open -- your -- I get your point but let me guess they aren't one to respond to both of you on Solyndra.
That the solar energy industry.
Is making money in this country it is not a fly by night investment.
Okay so that's Melissa said he wants us to move on but that's a good transition.
-- last night the -- and address the president announced that he is directing the Pentagon to invest to have that make the largest investment.
In Green energy four solar.
And wind farms to essentially have enough power for three million homes at the end of 2012 same time.
We get and alert today that the Pentagon is going to cut the amount of troops in the US army.
From roughly 45 brigades to about thirty years 32 that's a drop of some 80000.
Charles -- seems to be a bit of -- -- disconnect and we're going to have a full story on this tomorrow.
About the Pentagon investing this massive.
Amount and yet cutting.
-- it's it's the theme of the Obama administration.
It's the theme that the Europeans have pursued now for sixty years they decided they wanted to welfare state.
They wanted a domestic.
-- they wanted attention to their domestic affairs after the two world wars.
They severely cut their defense so they really can't do anything we have so even in Libya.
They ran out of ammunition that we have to supply them for a Libyan operation.
On their doorstep this is the social democratic agenda Obama's adopting he's cutting huge civilian defense even when he did the stimulus.
Every domestic -- department got huge increase so we should point that this is coming with the sequester still.
Pending -- -- is an additional write a major cut but even in the absence you know when he did in the stimulus.
Defense had to hold -- -- didn't get anything.
Give a defense.
Procurement which is high tech jobs he's cutting the size of the army.
And he's cutting its effectiveness.
Cutting the budget even before this and he uses the -- -- on as a social service agency.
He wants to create a market for these kinds of energy.
Production that had no market because they're so on economical.
That's wind and -- so what he's doing is imposing the cost and it'll be -- hidden costs because you won't see it as a line item in the budget.
But the Pentagon will have to pay a lot more for energy.
Then it would ordinarily get if it would choose according to the market.
And that's again subordinate in the national security apparatus to his domestic ideology.
Tim from Kentucky's is doctor programmers write on as always Michael from Georgia says one rocks.
Michael Bloomberg than usual for minorities well -- appreciate how children.
How much from Pittsburgh says what does wandering.
Well I really like -- is if you.
All right so I'm -- Charlotte now.
What about this this whole deal about the Pentagon funding the cut back.
And this program does invest in Green and well I think two things you're at play here one is we have a very large militarily anybody I don't -- -- I could be surprise I could have to go to the bar after the session but.
I'd be surprised if anybody's -- -- Oh there's no -- there's no ability to cut back on the US military.
Without endangering Americans a key national and international security interest I just don't I mean we have a bigger military -- the next ten militaries all put together.
I mean this is frequently -- and you've seen bumper stickers about you know have a bake sale for the military and invest in the school resentment.
There's no question and it's part of the reason that we have such a large number of beltway bandits in this city is they're all contractors for the military they.
Benefit -- military spending if the president is trying innovative -- to have some of that military.
Spending directed in terms of helping to develop alternative energy I don't think it's a bad thing.
Steve it seems like it here on the keystone XL pipeline project there -- Arguably thousands we don't know how many thousands but let's just say thousands of jobs that the administration is not.
Choosing to to go for.
And this case there -- some 80000.
Troops that will no longer get a paycheck from the -- -- they become unemployed.
Right I don't know I mean you know I think you'll hear from the administration will take care of these.
People who no longer are able to work.
In the armed forces of the united states of my bigger concern is that work.
The president is trying to take cash in the peace dividend that what when world war three world war as this is like.
Ten years ago we were attacked -- that this war continues he can make arguments.
And and some do some of them are more persuasive than others.
That we don't need that kind of military that we've had in the past that we need to transform -- that we need to shape it differently.
What what he's doing to the military systematically.
I think is criminal if it's.
Unbelievable to me that we haven't learned a lesson whether you look at that post Cold War -- I mean post World War II days of post Cold War days.
Every -- you know made this point to actually was was Bob gates a former Defense Secretary work for President Obama.
We have a consistent record of failing to predict.
When we're going to need to use our military we don't predict these crises very often and when you got the military.
You what we're spending on the military what were planning for now is it.
For tomorrow it's for ten years from -- we don't even understand the nature of the threats ten years from now what are those threats going to be is going to be China.
Is it going to be Venezuela and the C.
The Pakistan and nuclear program meltdown of the government implode and how do you cut the military in that kind of a global environment it's irresponsible and -- -- America -- slogan for the military.
Make win that war took a.
Wow they -- bumper sticker we'll work that well Richard says Solyndra was speculation in the pipeline is not.
All of this to China and will be buying.
The Chinese will by then resell it back to the US.
Okay let's turn to politics.
Is heating up it is now we -- Tuesday next week will be Florida.
It seems like this is a big moment Steve.
In this race I think you.
-- you know how many times have we said that's right every every one of these is the next pivotal moment it always changes the contours of the race but doesn't determine the outcome.
I think -- at another -- Right now I mean you -- -- what what we saw from Newt Gingrich.
In South Carolina was truly remarkable and you have to understand that this was a 25.
Point -- That we saw from the polls five days before the race to last Saturday's outcome.
He seems to have lost some of that moment in the intervening days.
If Mitt Romney truly stabilizes I think he has that people worldwide disagree about the extent of the advantage that he's built by.
With the absentee program that he's used I think very skillfully.
But he will have an advantage some people say it will be a point on Election Day because of the early -- -- -- on absentee voting on early voting.
At a time when he was leading the polls in Florida.
I I think -- -- -- advantage the other thing Charles mentioned on the show the air war that's taking place there now it's very important to remember Mitt Romney has been on -- here in Florida.
Since January 3 the day of the Iowa Caucuses in all ten media markets and he has.
Saturated for people there are very familiar with his messages with his biography.
-- heavy in Spanish language advertising.
The caveat of course is that he was also heavy on the air South Carolina and that didn't work has to do with the endorsement of Tea Party backed governor and -- have sex drugs.
But South Carolina.
Haven't I go back to this because I think.
Is sort of in some ways our jobs where violence has become.
Theatre critics the importance of these debates and again the moments in these debate is not who wins on points to test these moments look.
It happens -- we all and we we saw before I think we want.
He he's on the Green side and wouldn't go to the silent film.
I would have liked -- -- reactions actually you know I think I -- on the edit that out I don't remember.
That I -- you might need a police protection coming.
That's clearly -- rocketed him ahead and I would say again the Monday debate that we had a few days ago.
Where it was a draw on he had kind of a flat -- do I think help slow him down because you build up this expectation.
That every time he shows up he's -- you know.
-- six touchdowns.
And if he doesn't -- you know then in some ways he did.
Meet the new standard so I think what's going to happen tomorrow night.
In this debate where there will be studio audience can be pretty important.
And I think -- could determine in a race I think the advantage Romney has from the early vote by my calculations -- point that.
So -- has to win by two to become the winner.
Assume you know to the based on the current.
Knowledge and the mood of the elect because so many tens of thousands voted early absentee or early voters -- about 230000.
There right -- right before the new surge.
In other -- -- who voted before the South Carolina.
I rocket right that that Gingrich had so if you -- and they apparently those.
Had a plus eleven for Romney over games.
But I think it's -- Angel -- tomorrow night.
-- -- -- interest and to me is that clearly.
-- momentum that.
I Gingrich built up in South Carolina quickly transferred through literally -- win across the border into Florida I didn't anticipate that.
And now we're -- a situation where it's Romney who has the momentum against Gingrich because we've seen the numbers -- over the last few days in the polls.
The national polls still have Gingrich in the -- -- -- in Florida.
In the face of all the advertising we see is Romney surgeon and inside the polls what I saw today was.
That the Tea Party people in the evangelicals.
With provided such a large margin for Gingrich in South Carolina.
They are not.
Universally in support of Gingrich in Florida that there's so much more he still has the lead but -- of the things one -- if I think within the margin of error among the evangelicals.
Between -- game.
My computers frozen up so I can't read anymore your comments but Steve 43%.
-- of voters 21000 of them said another Republican should enter this race 53% said no.
There are interesting studies rest musicians said third.
Are ready for somebody else.
Tell me how the numbers work how how does it happen if you've you buy -- to the whole thing.
How does it happen.
Well I just add -- to the two that you decided to New York Times last week asked the question found that seven in ten Republicans want it.
Another entry in the race which is pretty extraordinary at this moment.
But I think it's -- I think it's unlikely to happen I think I'm not -- would be very happy for you don't have to all of those stimulus put that -- all browsers so.
After Florida there will be roughly 12130.
If you look at when.
Filing deadlines are can get on the -- I believe that is about 31 states.
After four -- 12100 available he -- 11142.
In order to win the nomination so if somebody were to get -- after Florida haven't won no delegates they would need.
This person would need to virtually sweep every single -- That's not gonna happen there caucus -- they're all sorts of reasons but that's not gonna happen so anybody who got in now what have to get him.
With the assumption that this was going to a brokered convention that that neither Newt Gingrich nor Mitt Romney nor written form nor Ron Paul.
Was going to end up with a majority of the delegates and that it was going to be split.
Two ways three ways four ways and that this person could come -- ride this.
Late entry momentum the excitement the buzz however -- in some states OK but let me just interrupt -- You're talking about not making the ballot.
And a lot of place when it all in nineteen states.
Nineteen -- -- wouldn't make that wouldn't be on -- now be rooting for somebody else like Rick Perry got on you'd say.
I want if you want to mention any alive yes vote for Rick Perry yes you there's Herman Cain and on some of these bouts but.
In reality that's probably not gonna happen your problem they're probably not gonna have delegates so the people who are actually in the race actually campaigning.
Would get the delegates the whole the whole you wouldn't do this if you thought you were gonna.
Try to win a majority of the delegates by convention time only do it if you thought I was getting in because the field is so weak.
People are so eager for another candidate for another voice.
That when I get -- I can capture as many delegates as -- -- to make me part of the argument.
And once we get to the -- -- -- when there so that's the long shot deal.
The second -- question is who's the vessel.
That's the biggest question I mean if I don't think that there's any obvious person Mitch Daniels people are talking about Mitch Daniels.
Reports were when he got out that he yet in that he wanted to run.
His wife and daughters didn't want him to run there have been talks lately you talk to people who are around him outside and -- circles say.
That's no longer a problem he could conceivably get -- if you want -- to.
He hasn't shown it certainly hasn't shown any public indication that he's going to jump in the race -- that he's ready to and until we see that I think it's better to assume that.
She probably doesn't do it and Jeb Bush he's his names thrown out there but he said although there was speculation when he refused to endorse that you want to at least keep that option open because somebody like Chris Christie or John Thune amendment early potential.
Candidates got in got behind Mitt Romney Tim -- -- behind Mitt Romney.
It's hard for Chris Christie to say if he were involved in this convention people called him.
-- I've been campaigning for Mitt Romney hard for the past six months but I've now decided he's really not the guy.
She how much time I gave Steve do lay out this and I.
I want noted on can I do about it yes -- have been a better chance of good -- getting it.
Well Charles if I can if I can not try to with with all due respect with the same respect that you showed Henry Waxman caught up.
Yeah we have been wrong collectively and individually about Scott Brown winning the race in Massachusetts.
There's no chance ever in any -- that's got drunk and anyway as and then when he meanwhile Gingrich would then when -- -- instead of health -- is dead and it wasn't that.
And then you can -- has been bad.
He -- I was sentenced spared from that night.
I'll tell you are you yesterday and I appreciate the -- oh.
Riley asked me last night to predict -- -- and I think.
I've twice for NASA Newt Gingrich and dead if I do it again I'll lose my medical -- I'm renewed -- toxic.
Lazarus twice I'm not trying to do something about it that I don't understand so his point is fair enough -- there this race unlike any other has principles priceless historical if I'm not mistaken.
The last time -- had a late comer who kind of rode in on a way.
Was Bobby Kennedy I think you have to go back to 68 and it was really before the primary system was developed to where you was a lot of delegations were controlled by the bosses -- you can actually win all the delegates.
In his state if you have a governor -- I don't I mean it's true but there's one argument that would make even if somebody comes in.
And there's kind of you know careers and euphoria yes the guy starts to win.
There's also the argument all the other guys and I -- trenches for twelve months they haven't slept in twelve months Michelle Bachmann was here the other night.
And I just asked -- about what it's like to be on the -- you go eighteen hour days for six -- Mean six days and you you don't even remember where you are it is such a grueling ordeal and you've got to give some honor.
For the people who do it and I think it just it might be a backlash saying now wait a minute you know this -- -- ride in on a carpet.
While the others -- -- out there and done what you need to do is sort of like the American.
You know if you work hard you pay in taxes you play by the rules so I think that might be a factor that.
After the initial euphoria of people who say you know is this really the way to do it where you where.
-- -- -- -- Amazing person on the magic carpet could beat Obama.
I think Republicans would forgive the idea that he had come at the last moment like I he was that if he was the savior.
The bigger the bigger issue here is the one that -- started with which is there's a surprising number Republicans who at this point.
Still have this wishful desire that.
Someone else would get in the game and I don't I I don't have a lack of respect for that I think -- -- -- -- feel that.
In any year where the Republican should've had a pretty easy shot of the programs.
So I think a lot of people -- -- and guided a year like this.
Could you -- apps on -- It -- -- to -- your your point but the difference I think you're right it's it I would go back to Kennedy I think you could make an argument that on the democratic side the Cranston John Glenn.
Mondale race in 1984 with someone and -- that's the difference that they they tried to get Cranston votes right that.
So -- and then Wisconsin and right exactly last year around.
I mean -- last cycle on the Republican side.
Huckabee and McCain and at all times.
And Fred Thompson came in a little bit late and he says he did did the major difference to remember the Catholic calendars totally different by the end of February last -- 50% of the delegates had been allocated by the end of February this time in less than 50%.
She got all of these back but it states -- finally finally deadlines but -- to.
It's put up or shut up immediately and this is -- absolutely right you're saying he would press count the guy who comes and we have to win 90% of the delegates.
From here that flash tape yet about it right now but that's why do we have nomination outright have to be a broker.
Which I think is not you wouldn't.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- At this point thinking that he or she wouldn't we talk tonight plus college -- I get closer look at the caucus states Ron Paul always going to millions.
I'm right caucus states exact that's where he and and that -- by the way the 1230 total that I'm using it.
Includes Iowa's delegates which are actually formally award and -- -- -- convention.
In June which means that they're not really up for -- they're sort of up for grabs but they're not really up for grabs and includes all sorts of you know non binding delegates I mean it gets tired arguments aren't used to tell people since we can confide in them on this online -- This would be the full pundit employment act if we had a brokered conventions.
Steve you're unlucky in love it yeah yeah program and interest and -- half.
Have an interest to record -- -- alone -- coach Reynolds.
Pails in comparison then -- for me.
-- thank you avoid letting us go down this black hole that we've just been down for the last a few minutes if it happened and I.
We're here for -- and then we'll take out all the caveats to any of that she's an idea what he's -- days ahead.
Review of you have to show this I don't know -- -- know -- -- -- -- the -- -- party.
-- Pixar the computer -- -- what have you read more comments but I couldn't.
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