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-- joined by one of the leading experts on China.
North Korea and the entire region Gordon Chang is here he is of course the -- of nuclear showdown.
North Korea takes on the world.
Gordon has just met with the Chinese vice president vice president.
And has said that the relationship between China and the US that cooperation.
Is very important for the world.
That is a good point isn't it that they do need to be on friendly to.
It's yeah and and of course we were gonna hear this because we've always heard this.
-- big difference -- or is -- as Jennifer Griffin pointed out is that the Pentagon is reorient and its strategy towards China because of its belligerence in the South China Sea and now the East China -- And one of the things is that the United States isn't willing to talk about that -- name.
And that's frustrating the Chinese because they're saying you know you're putting B fifty twos in Australia rotating the Marines are there you're doing all of these things and it's not to contain this one and the Chinese are pretty upset about that no one -- It was was just writing in saying that he'd -- he believes our next major wall will be in the South China Sea explained to everybody.
-- the Chinese are doing in the South China Sea that has -- -- worried the South China Sea is one of the critical bodies of water because about 50% of the world's not oil shipping goes through the South China -- And China claims the entire -- as an internal Chinese like.
And that means that it claims all the way up to the shores of the Philippines Brunei and Malaysia.
And this is driving countries in the region and that is of course because you know the Chinese are saying you -- you -- You you won't pull our shores and clearly clearly this is a problem because the Chinese claims are Ludacris and ended one.
Thing the United States is stood for for 200 years it's freedom of navigation over international waters and so this is a no compromise position with the Chinese do you get.
Get any sense the behind the scenes behind the polite woods that we obviously see.
I don't White House event.
But behind the scenes when they're on their own in the Oval Office all always -- critic -- -- is with the Chinese vice president.
Topple woods is going to be spoken yet there are tougher words but we're not really -- what we need to say -- do we need to send I think we need to say that the Chinese is that there are rules of the road there are international rules and you have to comply with them and that the United States is the guarantor of the international system is going to make sure that you do comply one way or another.
And the problem is -- because we've been so squeamish about talking about it the Chinese keep pushing and pushing and pushing and that creates problems and you know we've seen this same dynamic before many times in the history of the world.
You know most notably in 19381939.
So I'm very concerned about for instance conflict in the -- the south Tennessee not because we're belligerent.
But because we've been too nice and not willing to have those honest conversations.
Not only in public but also in private -- net and we you and I were talking yes today.
About China's role.
In other conflicts.
-- the way all of these things are into connected we go to North Korea.
Child is -- and -- -- -- -- that but he was saying to me.
The Chinese in Syria as well that's and they they have vital interest there and that's why the blocking UN resolutions for instance condemning Bashar Assad yeah a lot of people say that the Chinese just did that to sort of pleased the Russians on the Russians wouldn't be allowed for China as a very important -- -- for instance remembers September 2007.
The Israelis destroy this series -- facility.
Not -- really North Korean designed or North Korean technicians there it was paid for by Iran.
China has really been behind all of this and the one thing that -- really concerned about.
Is that if Hasan of falls we're gonna start looking through all the papers or we're gonna see the involvement of the Chinese in the -- regular program.
At and that's one thing China doesn't want because he's -- that happened is so if if president Assad full.
The Chinese believe that we will go win.
And we will find documentary evidence that they have aided Syria's nuclear program and dolphins yes and that's that it would.
That this is already happened before with Libya because -- Moammar Gadhafi give up his nuclear weapons program after the Iraq War.
We saw all the documents and there were armed warhead designs and 1966 Chinese warhead designs with Chinese characters in the possession of -- -- And so clearly trying to was embarrassed by that.
They do not want to be embarrassed by what aside holds and clearly with the north Koreans involved in that reactor in the desert.
China was involved as well and beyond.
Beyond new -- weapons proliferation.
Are some of those rockets that we've seen fight again and again into Syrian cities that civilian populations some of those coming from China.
Well probably some of them are but what we're really concerned about is not the short range weapons but ballistic nuclear weapons.
Essentially North Korea and Iran have had a joint partnership for more than a decade on long range missiles.
And China has helped North Korea get some of those missiles over to Iran by allowing its territory to be used -- -- shipments.
The Chinese have other involvement probably.
But clearly you know the Chinese have been involved in transferring nuclear weapons technology to Iran.
Over these last ten years that's a real problem.
And one of the things I talked about not having honest conversations with the Chinese and this is something which is absolutely vital to the United States.
We need to be talking about this every day and not just in private but in public because this threatens us is China.
To be a superpower ally around the world and to directly threaten American interest all simply to try to counter balance American -- Well you know China has great power ambitions and so that's gonna mean they're gonna bump up against us.
But you know in a sense you can understand that because that's what great powers do.
-- the real problem though is what China does to further its ambitions.
And so a lot of those things about liberating technology.
Just so dangerous to -- the United States but the rest of the world.
These are things that we can't compromise on.
-- that -- is fascinating east.
-- broke I think it was late last week.
I was monitoring.
The Internet rumor mill.
Well I think it was Friday maybe it was Thursday golden.
We started hearing these rumors that Kim -- -- in the some of Kim Jong-Il.
Now the leader in North Korea had been killed in an assassination attempt to may have happened in.
Beijing had eight all the C wasn't true but you were telling me it is 88 points to a lot of things going on -- in North Korea won't.
-- -- -- owns half brother is Kim Jong Nam who lives in Macau.
And and obviously with -- succession he is the subject of assassination attempts himself.
-- that he walks around Macau without guards freely and so the question is how can he do this and I think it's because Beijing is protecting him.
Because they're looking at Kim Jong Nam is somebody that they can put into power in Pyongyang if the need arises so -- sort of like the guy that can do it for them.
And so I think that Kim Jong Nam is trying to destabilize.
His half brother Kim Jong well in the current leader of North Korea.
Admittedly a lot of speculation and all of this but -- makes sense because these rumors of the assassination of Kim Jong-un started in China.
And and that means I think Kim Jong Nam was talking to his buddies and that sort of just got out of control does it does it does show that there is a great deal of pressure on Kim Jong.
-- there is pressure because he -- 2029.
He doesn't really have the political connections to be in order to manage to the regime you know it's a one man regime in North Korea but there -- a lot of different elements that he has to balance.
He doesn't have the network of friends to be able to help him keep the regime together that's why this is dangerous and that's why the military is becoming I think.
Much more powerful in north career right now because Kim -- can't control it.
All right Gordon Chang author of nuclear showdown North Korea takes on the well great to have your insight as always -- -- thank you.
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