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In a Fox News Latino Exclusive Juan Williams interviews Pat Buchanan about his recent firing from MSNBC, his controversial new book “Suicide Of A Su...
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Hi I'm Juan Williams.
This is a Fox News Latino exclusive.
Interview with commentator Pat Buchanan pat thanks for joining -- Juan.
-- Everybody is curious about a conversation that you had with bill grip and the man who runs MSNBC.
That apparently sealed your fate because now you're no longer -- MSNBC.
What was the grounds for your mind.
Well it -- it began October 18 the day of my book -- -- superpower -- one.
I think he'll regret it and groups -- excerpts from it and I said.
He would say in January 2 months later that these ideas don't belong on MSNBC.
And they don't belong he believes in the national dialogue so I think they felt that way initially.
But the book did tremendously well at random number four in the New York Times vessel is the first week.
I was once again and I was on Fox News Fox Business news -- -- stand with Ralph Nader Sean Hannity there Burnett.
And some 150 radio stations in the first couple weeks.
And that surprised me that they didn't bring me over there but I think what happened is there's a number of organized groups color change was one of them.
Human rights commission which is a gay rights group was another.
Abe foxman and radio.
It was another and I think they really put heat on constantly.
To have me removed from MSNBC.
I don't know quite frankly what the final arguments weren't convinced -- SN BC that there would sever the relationship I don't know exactly what it was.
I wasn't given to understand what they were but I think those were two of the vital things so Griffin never said pat this is the basis in which we are are.
University was fired back he's called me and -- sent -- -- coaching and I have not suspend due someone put on Paper and suspended.
We're simply all there for a little while -- There's not much difference between new suspension.
To give -- the -- for couple month I was of the impression on February 16 they severed the relationship relationships and severed hand free to go one and he.
Network channel cable anything else right now.
It's I think upon agreement of departure.
I acceded to the agreement and passionately about a lot of right you can't go back and there they didn't explain -- -- time on February 16 this is why we're certainly.
Know the motivation I think you really have to go to Phil Griffin and MSNBC in the folks up there in New York thirty rockets to -- was gone.
They I have been told.
Others things I think that way and it.
They've got a lot of criticism about me not -- -- corner carriages but -- -- -- very strong column syndicated column.
And I think some critics cold night but -- this one.
-- I mean I'm not bothered about my situation ten years is longer work for anybody in my whole life and I was removed from the Ford White House by Donald Rumsfeld.
In a little book or -- matter.
As was his won't.
But what bothers me about some practices some of these organizations to print monitor every word -- And then they work night and go to how to get rid of him get rid of this column.
Don't let him speak this convention they're basically blacklisted organization that's what they -- I know you knew Robert Novak cantankerous character he told me you know these groups which can attack.
This -- -- -- papers.
They don't want to argue and debate like we're doing here we're not arguing but.
They want to make sure you're not hurt.
And I think this is a serious issue.
Well this is a very serious issue and pat I think it's gonna surprise some of Arafat -- Latino.
Audience but I understand.
The poison.
That comes into the American domain.
Debate and discussion.
When what.
You are saying is ruled out of bounds -- you.
Are viewed as someone who is not welcome.
Into the mainstream of American ideas and intellectual discourse because I was fired from NPR -- simply speaking my mind.
And then accused of bigotry.
For saying that -- course in an airport I get nervous when I see people in Muslim garb getting on the plane with.
-- -- Understand what that means -- -- in your case I think you are being blacklisted as you put it right rolled out of bounds.
We're speaking about race right for speaking about.
Power of Israel right for speaking about what you see at the declining influence of whites and Americans to -- Well this is your exactly right and it we have the same experience in the sense.
They don't they don't take the book and they didn't say well this paragraph is profoundly offensive where -- pages it's simply.
It's racist homophobic.
And -- -- -- And and then they they use this this is -- -- finished at a time issue.
And then they moved to silence and frankly sensor.
And blacklist you -- you can't work again.
Look want I had to say petitioned the fiftieth anniversary of my graduation from Columbia graduate school of journalism and I'm up there -- all liberals.
And I -- actually -- I'm writing editorials within three months which means in August of 1960 -- fifty years ago.
I'm part of the national debate people argue with me crossfire and all those years -- and all those arguments.
We'd like to bring on people to argue the other side we have on that show.
-- -- -- Meir Kahane.
-- -- -- that showed David duke you -- on that show or -- you have the minister for Erica can -- My idea of journalism is let's get across the table and we know where you Stan.
And let's go -- it for about 1920 minutes -- and let's let people decide.
This is the problem with censorship that is they're not afraid of me I'm not be -- 2% after that.
What are they afraid.
They're afraid of some of your ideas being accepted and -- by people.
Read it and say we know it's got some good points with regard Israel has got some good points with regard to this.
They're afraid of the people they're afraid people will believe you -- you want to wait a minute I don't want -- but I agree with him one.
-- it's got an interesting point but now pat in your case that charge is when that is so powerful.
In the American mind.
Given our history the charges.
Buchanan is a racist aren't so let me ask you.
-- -- -- -- What does -- -- hate black folks that's what racism and hate black troops I want and discriminated against.
You know I dislike them I used I use bad words -- No it's not that I do disagree profoundly.
With the affirmative action agenda and a number of other issues but I've argued as I said.
African American folks are home enforce schools I went to the Catholic school where the first -- desegregated -- should.
So but this is the point they make one for -- say he can't races so instead of saying what are your motives and calling him that.
Why -- you -- that what you want done to him senator folks was okay calls -- us.
Let's go are you racist mr.
Buchanan Ronald Reagan was called that same -- -- you and if we sat there and watch cable 24 hours we can hear people -- that every day.
It makes one of the points in this book which is suicide of a superpower which is.
That American society is disintegrating.
Breaking down and breaking apart.
Because we've lost our common a common moral consensus.
Our moral -- art history comic heroes all of these things at once held us together.
The idea that your -- browsing I don't think of necessarily racist.
Because when you stop and think about it the idea that people would assimilate.
Into American society that we would become a melting pot.
It's an idea that in many corners especially liberal left wing elite corners is out of fashion.
Why are you asking me to abandon who I am and what I -- but let me come back to the conversation with you -- You say things like Mexico is moving north right.
And the people who are listening especially people who up Latino descent thinking.
It's -- afraid of people who are coming from Mexico or who -- Latinos do you see those folks as a threat to the American dream.
No it hasn't if there's two things you know -- -- folks I think most -- Mexicans when you if you go to building at 4 in the morning.
This year -- and there won their hard work.
And -- and her friend.
However I do believe that -- When you have in this country argued about this problem back in 1992.
And open border.
When you have folks -- and coming into your country from another culture basically another language and all of this.
I think you have a real danger.
Of your your country in effect breaking down in a sense we -- fifty million Hispanics in the country now we're probably one or two million in 1950.
We're gonna have a 135 million in 20504040.
Years from now.
I think if you have say a hundred million in the southwest with one foot in the United States culturally.
Or politically definitely.
But culturally socially linguistically tied to Mexico.
I think you're running the risk of the country basically.
No longer being one people one nation under god united.
-- they're gonna become Americans.
I think they're gonna I think you're gonna have one for their deeply devoted millions of devoted to Mexico go to your Irish.
Look we're all right you do you deeply devoted to I think you're I think if you as -- America and that and I think confusion and I don't think -- an African.
And let me -- this Ireland played the United States -- -- soccer and first I probably wouldn't be interest and document -- for the United States.
You've got to Los Angeles coliseum 1000 works there.
The American teams booed.
The American flag is pulled the National Anthem that erupted brewed in the American players -- wrong.
And -- got folks -- and an American citizen can play that to me is a problem.
Now let me say this I've got -- Houston book talks DC 50% -- 2% black and I was totally segregated account however.
Which the same radio -- finishing teams read this literature in school read the same American history and holidays have the same religion only they were Protestant we were Catholics.
And we have all these things and cloture.
That made us one people profession you -- in America no doubt about.
And even -- -- about it -- these -- the things that bringing it together.
But it in the 1950s I couldn't be sitting here talking to you I wouldn't be hired by Fox News.
I wouldn't be talking to you for Fox's -- -- I would my job opportunities my educational opportunities -- residential opportunities were limited.
On the basis of the color my.
Exactly it and that's exactly the point we were divided by race what was it that made us both Americans even in 1950 or 1960.
These are the things -- -- That's what -- and you had Jewish folks Irish folks Greeks.
Polls flops Robert folks only spoke -- came over whose parents or grandparents came over 1819.
-- If you are to mean the original terrified component at a public lot -- -- for the world.
They were all American -- because we all went through the same cultural.
And -- actually that's going on today I think the opposite is -- that's where fragments -- not -- let me just say this to you but you've had a longstanding.
Disagreement.
Let's say with the Jewish community.
This model and but here here are people I don't think you're gonna say there's.
You know that they have out.
And interest I think you once described it at Capitol Hill as Israeli occupied territory because of their pretty funny -- didn't think so we'll look at it.
Anybody and support for Israel -- -- does that make them people of divided -- do you think they are not American.
-- I think these folks are Americans -- -- disagree with is the Israeli -- a -- And that the power they have on Capitol Hill when I've been arguing Wear them.
It's I believe they've pushed to get this country in two wars I would even mention desert storm certainly.
The gulf war -- go the -- 2003 war.
And I think we're being pushed now fights get into -- commander.
And I think these are not in the interest of my country.
And -- are good point.
But now than people would say you -- -- and you also say.
They're too many Jews in the academy in the best college or university so many minorities especially mention Asians in the -- Asian folks and Jewish vote in the ivy leagues are over represented in terms their numbers in the popular.
They -- they -- -- on the basis of ability.
Okay test scores ability some some folks got in there because prepare to -- -- -- Taylor argued against in my book the -- account I grew up with guys.
Who worked their whole lives to go through West Point -- Annapolis I'm sure you've seen these folks.
You go there at the Naval Academy to check if your white.
You need a score of 600 and 600 English all age and these and you get put on a list of -- You come in with a lower score and here person of color in the 500 you get -- get -- agencies.
And you can be slotted right into the account.
Jimmie this is the same kind of discrimination that black people faced all over this country but especially in the south during the civil rights here.
Now I have you speak -- I'm sure from your perspective for justice for black -- and -- I want the working class white voted into prison -- -- from 1990.
And what do I do speak up for it with our rights to equal treatment everywhere they ago.
And that's what -- bargain for the table so you're saying equal justice for working class white people are not exactly no discrimination against -- little -- because they're working class white font.
But -- take a look at the numbers and -- markets and made it to study out of Princeton says if you're Christian in -- for future farmers of America and these other organizations.
And your white working class your chances plunge.
In going to schools like car Harvard and prince.
Supreme Court is now reopening the affirmative action argument.
Right and the appears to be leaning in your direction but let me ask you -- -- Americans -- -- -- -- -- -- -- let me answer your question here don't you think that the history of discrimination particularly in the area of education.
But continuing disparities in terms of educational outcomes in terms.
Things like income.
Families all the rest the terribly history that we all slavery and all of its consequences you don't think that that's a legitimate factor.
I think with where African Americans it was within the filled -- your plan was begun under Nixon.
In a typical these guys kept -- unions because you're black now they should bring a certain number him.
I understand are also understand that argument for African Americans.
But can we -- Puerto Rican Americans did we enslave Mexican Americans know why they didn't -- -- someone in Puerto Rico.
Given a in the affirmative action against some guy from whose parents are from Portugal or from -- And you don't understand the need in terms of the American dream in fact I think you said that you think that there's some kind of effort by the American elite to create this polyglot.
-- and you think it's too much but I'm saying if you're Puerto -- if you're Mexican if you're from Central America Latin American you come to the United States.
And you find that there are given our history.
Preferences for people who wore white in this society.
I don't think there's any way about that think they really -- the polish folks that came in the Greeks who came in reports they were all privileged and you don't you think that now they're -- considered white once they assimilate into American society and that there is historically.
A bias against people collar Latinos and blacks in the united -- Well it's all right.
And the bias.
Don't introduce a brand new biased against folks simply because that's because there were.
Why would you do that why don't we don't -- that NFL two thirds of the players in the NFL African American.
And they're only 12% of the population.
Okay 8% in the -- yeah probably 0% of the national hockey -- We don't want to do we don't do that and sports and things we really rich richer competitive.
What America Isabel is flatten each guy get up at that start mind together and felt wins the right here it goes to the Olympics I don't care what color -- And didn't LBJ's say that if you have one guy who's been in chains and held in a dark.
Please and not very good food and then you bring into that starting line pretend that is not an affair race.
Well art Kelly why it and then African Americans have succeed they succeed -- Hollywood.
They succeeded writers as journalists on TV.
And they succeed him athletics obviously this -- one.
But in something other folks like I don't know why there's so few African American players in hockey league but I do know it.
They should be given -- -- but they don't make it I don't get it isn't -- what we're supposed to go to.
You think that if we look at American business -- that.
Top of the American.
Structure for law -- Madison Wi -- and absence of people of color that there's no problem well -- I don't.
Look let's take the biochemistry class I would assume anybody that's good and biochemistry it really outstanding.
Gets into that graduate class.
And if somebody is kept out because of his race which -- why did you do that -- -- degrade this -- -- Smart -- -- this cannot imagine duties and but I wouldn't walk in there and say.
I don't know why all these economic storage -- pat -- historically people of color were kept out of schools -- -- I know that I always thought.
And it it.
Who -- discriminated in in the in the nineteenth century not only -- -- liars you apply real.
For about a hundred years but the Japanese and Chinese on the West Coast or -- -- okay my sisters -- human down to it.
Went to school computers on mother's arms and -- -- -- wanted to check schooler.
She went into the library on Saturday the bridge at the big game it's a good football team.
The place was filled up.
All of Asian Americans.
Are those kids are study and it it -- what I -- they -- they get degraded and then they get scholarships.
All right let me ask you when you talk about Latinos when you talk about folks who are concerned.
That there is an anti immigrant.
Attitude atmosphere in America these days the new laws and Arizona and the like you say people who are concerned about this.
Are often times labeled as being a phobic -- as racist.
As nativist.
When in fact do you think they have a legitimate concern.
What's your outlook in if you don't go to the movies it's a long line and great movie a couple of guys move in ahead of us walk -- that movie everybody to what's going on here.
The people that I'm concerned about our first the folks at break into the country they shouldn't be allowed to do what they should be sent back.
They should get in line but let me say this one legal immigration.
-- we got something like 23 million unemployed and underemployed you know it's.
And we're bringing in one million new folks into the United States each year who get jobs.
Why don't we wait -- unemployment is down to 6% or 5%.
Before you bring an end -- billion new -- to take jobs from our fellow Africans.
That's my argument against little.
Think of Iraq and at a time that you don't think that the immigrants legal and illegal who were here are valued by their employers by their communities and performing important functions in America you get the businessmen and they get -- that didn't bring into the thing to bring into a car war.
Legal immigrants that work for less you know -- -- all this other stuff and work off the books that you're very sure about that earlier this I love that -- -- -- I think that you have been stung and unfairly.
Pushed out of what is a legitimate and important argument for all Americans -- -- and I got to tell you.
I feel like we're Brothers right understanding within these.
Groups on the left primarily decide -- -- you're not to be allowed to speak they will now being an issue.
And make you an outcast and pat I'm sorry that happened to you can get -- -- job and NPR asked how.
That it can't imagine doing this is auctioning the keynotes we -- that it.
