Have Easter and Passover lost their true meaning?
Rabbi Steve Burg and Frank Shelton discuss the secular components of holidays
- Duration 18:33
- Date Apr 6, 2012
Rabbi Steve Burg and Frank Shelton discuss the secular components of holidays
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Once again overlap.
And as I said in the headlines it's a reminder of how forever linked our christianity and Judaism.
And it also begs the question of why if there's so much in common is there's so much strife between the -- That -- begins to think panel and joining from a Washington DC French Shelton evangelism director for the 2012.
And here in New York City a rabbi Steve Burke managing director of the union.
Orthodox Jewish congregations of America thank you both for being here hey frank.
You got -- -- to be with you well great you know what things that.
It is interesting about Easter and passover of course is how is so that linked together and I think a lot of you kind of forget that.
-- -- the last supper was actually the passover meal that Jesus was celebrating.
-- before it hit his arrest but one of the things that's really.
Boggles my mind and -- you can probably weigh in on this is before we get certainly because of of the conflict.
Is why is it that the that the Christian holiday is a -- is especially Easter and and Christmas.
I have all these secular sort of additions to them I mean how do you get.
Eggs and bunnies -- Jelly beans out of the crucifixion the resurrection of Jesus.
Wow that's a great question Lauren and unfortunately.
As you know just an eastern point it's not about new clues.
Kids are chocolate it's about Christ crucified on calabrese cross.
And society secularism.
And even Satan is gonna do anything and everything he can to keep.
If from being the main thing.
The main thing Jesus was born in a wooden -- He died on a wooden cross and the fact is Jesus is not any way to -- He's the only way to have been sending us your question I don't know where we got all that but the fact is we just need to remember that narrow is the way.
And we got to do our best to point everyone to the way which is Jesus the Christ.
Now actually put it in your statement right there probably is a reason why there's so much little strife between he stick it -- But but but that -- before you kind of answer frank on that topic.
Why is it that in -- is and you don't yet those sort of side -- issues of of a holiday a -- -- holy day turned into some sort of secular celebration like you know bunnies and and and jelly beans.
Yeah I I actually you know address that question I thought that that that approach of -- -- is a brilliant approach.
You know we're going to be celebrating the the -- tonight.
And one of things that the rabbis tell us in -- -- that.
Is as very important to have toys to the kids had candy for the kids to they're up interesting question they're engaged.
So you know I view it as -- and -- are wonderful because you know when you're talking to a five year old or seven year old -- nine year old.
You know you have to talking their language and that somebody -- -- they get excited you know I would -- you know when I hear you're -- -- these -- like that's really.
Yeah marketing religion because you're talking to the children and that's where he's trying to educate and I just I think that's one.
But there are a lot of people who really focus on those things and really don't even understand that what -- the religious significance of of Easter and Franken mean I've gotta say -- I don't know how -- You know.
Two to counter that I mean you go into -- they card shop and I've done this -- and 90%.
Of the cards.
Our secular about Easter men maybe you know ten maybe 15% are actually religious in nature.
Made it -- it why is that.
Well that's a good point but when you say marketing the fact is we have the greatest message of all time which is the messiah the lord.
And the thing is we're not trying to sell any -- of the cost has already been paid which is trying to share.
That person which is the lord and -- that's -- or even whether we're talking.
Jelly beans are candies -- Reese's pieces butter cups.
When we share these hallmark cards the thing is that's when the real Christians need to.
Stand up and then just share out of their testimony share the gospel and loved by their life and their lips and say let me tell you.
The rest of the story because really -- history.
Is your sharing his story the fact is if I say something it means nothing.
But when Jesus -- it in -- it means everything so I rather err on the side of being biblically correct not socially or politically correct.
Number I have to bring out something that frank is saying and apologetic -- that he's in DC at this point but.
-- -- actually get offended when they hear Christians say Jesus is the only way to happen do they get a senator they understand that this is what christianity.
Not at all.
Now I don't think so -- I think that.
You know for us there's -- certain understanding that different people feel different ways and there's different religions in -- -- You know I think got people had to be passion about what they do.
And I don't think it's I'm not offended when people are passionate about their beliefs and a passion on my beliefs you know and -- -- I doesn't bother me I don't think it bothers most people I think.
Interest Jewish Christian relations I think it's by the best it's been.
And thousands of years quite frankly.
So that they really doesn't bother me at all I do my passion.
-- you can -- a good point because one of the things that I've seen in the last.
Twenty years is there is has been this rise of sort of for the Christian zionists to sort of moving to sort of protect Israel.
Which you don't 38 years ago you would hear things about you know they -- -- -- -- you know that's sort of philosophy.
In terms -- -- better between Christians and -- what you mean by better what makes it better.
I think the fact that there we -- very warm relationship I think you just mentioned Israel I think Israel is is certainly one point.
On -- the religious community has spent a lot of time on I'm seriously in Washington that we're frank is for convention.
They packed convention and -- rabbis there there ministers there are people talking and and kind of you know getting around the essential point.
Its support of Israel and I think that -- you have people are there are mature that we can kind of -- the issues you know where they'd be bullying for example bullying campaigns.
Jews and Christians get together and added Muslims and everyone else out there there are so many things that we can get together on and I think people try to do that tonight.
Well that's great and I'd also like to share with the rabbi have my wife Fritz and -- for the last two years have also been part of confide Christians united for Israel with pastor John -- out of Texas.
And we'd love the Jewish people I had the privilege get a holy land in 95 and I think it's so worth mentioning that -- not only love the -- was the king of veggies.
And there's two main provisions it seems like with the precious -- his people for small there God's chosen people.
But the fact is there are some Jews who believe that the messiah hasn't come yet.
And then there are some while we is born again believers last summer wedding from the -- the first time.
We believe he's coming for the second in the last time so regardless if they're Jews for Jesus.
I know for a fact that Jesus is for the Jews and he's for the world and whosoever shall call upon the name of the lord can still be saying well.
That they get I was gonna say that the franc that I'm certainly one of those -- and believes -- -- not come yet.
But you know fragments are great organization we both do work with and and we could probably work -- so so many things.
You know and we have so much more common I think that's our focus.
I was -- the second topic now because of that religious wars on campus and at Vanderbilt University.
The largest student religious group is actually severing its ties with the institution over the school's nondiscrimination.
For -- groups that they would be open to anyone and an eligible those people should be eligible to actually become leaders.
That is similar -- -- have taken place in California and New York North Carolina and a conservative we -- -- as saying you know these this is kind of thing is actually going to grow.
It's going to get more on this kind of disputes are going to really just grow and get more.
Cantankerous as it worked so it would be anti discrimination policy is in a sense then are becoming discriminatory.
-- certain religious groups and frank just because your further we wanna I wanna bring you in this conversation first what.
What's wrong what's right what needs to happen in these situations how -- schools respond.
Well not far from you both Lauren is that tower that trophy -- freedom as you know this statue of liberty.
And at the bottom it says give me your poor your hungry your tired.
Parted for masses yearning to breathe free and what's ironic 2000 years ago as Christ died on the cross with outstretched arms.
He still was allowing anybody to come and be embraced.
What has made crisis and our country so precious we've always had an open door policy.
But where this individual case is unique Lauren is that these schools this is not instituted.
Regulated or funded these are student led group -- on campus.
And the fact is where does may sound discriminatory.
And these particular cases in North Carolina buffalo in California.
From what we've read it sounds like some of the folks came in under the radar.
Not to make a difference.
But almost to make a mockery.
And the thing is it's when you instead of going towards progress run -- -- protest.
That's where the problem is I don't think the planned parent.
Could director -- night will be fired.
Only to hire a pro life advocate tomorrow morning now one day that may happen but it's not gonna happen overnight.
And the thing is I think because it's still at Atlanta I respectfully believe the courts are overreaching.
And I do hope.
That this can get resolved sooner rather than later.
-- what do you think about these policies because -- university.
Else it was a knee jerk reaction but I don't know if they really thought out well yeah.
I thought it was it was terrible horrible.
As a terrible move university's part this by the way somewhere where -- and I -- absolutely agree on this.
Because you have to believe in something and for a group to say -- that certain basic beliefs to be in our leadership.
You know it when you come to this country you wanna become a citizen we asked you to take an oath what happens you say.
Gorilla like that -- take you know we tell you to go get another country well to help.
So this is different for religion if you want to be I can't be the head of the venerable Catholic organization.
On on -- -- -- I'm fine with that because they have to believe what they believe and they have been even.
The opportunity to express that and we can't tell them to you -- the people in your leadership don't believe in your.
It's terrible but that's what I think everything we have this conversation as of this classic but every time we have this conversation.
When we're not really telling.
What the issue really wants this was an issue over homosexuality.
And how -- say -- secular groups believe that.
They sort of conservative orthodox views on homosexuality is wrong and show any group that has it.
They sort of disavow and sort of the you know out of commission and that's what's really happening at issue is over homosexuality is I don't think anybody would have had.
The same reaction about someone who was a what you -- pro life person.
An -- you know pro choice organization that's just what happened but this is a particular issue are we really ever gonna rather we are we're going to really discuss that issue.
And we get that on -- table or is it will be just this.
Discussion around the topic and we'll look.
That that's the issue any time that you have these type of laws and have the laws in place.
You may do it for specific issue but -- can apply to -- thousand other things and and people use that in terms of homosexuality.
You know that it's a very -- it's a topic that.
It's very hard topic because for so you know I I have people I -- -- homosexual.
I embrace them I think they're wonderful people but -- -- we disagree on certain things and I think that sometimes.
This becomes inflamed them and we keep seeing it over and over again I was in fox studios and a couple weeks ago talking about contraception issue.
In in Washington and people took women's health and said okay this is the issue.
And religious groups -- saying that's not specifically issued issues much broader in terms of telling religious groups with -- -- can't do.
I think -- be very careful that that you were always going to be able give specific examples where people are very sympathetic.
But there's really a broader issue.
Allowing religions to basically operate the way free religion should let -- the First Amendment -- Fred go I want I would let you answer that except that we need to get on the next topic they really wanna get on -- -- about Mitt Romney because I think it's important.
We're talking with a broader issues because Mitt Romney's Mormon faith has put him at odds with many of evangelicals that make -- a large part of the Republican Party.
And senator Orrin hatch last week said that the president as well.
Would use the topic in the general election now but to the team Obama is shooting down that claim saying Romney's faith will be off limits.
No question -- -- -- has been front and center of the past few elections will it be possible to keep it out of the mix win the election gets tight and -- it was an answer this first because.
Evangelicals have not been real friendly.
-- Mitt Romney's faith you know -- will they actually sort of dislike it so much that they would actually vote for Obama.
No I don't think so Lauren I'm in this telegenic gauge if we're gonna have to watch someone for 48 months four years walk across the south land.
Getting off Marine One and waving.
Right or wrong a lot of evangelicals.
Are gonna say yes Romney got style looks third question today is but does he have the lord.
But I do believe that without a doubt Romney is patriotic.
He has a passion for this great country.
And I do believe that some of the things that he believes.
Base I'm not saying everything because god only knows his heart and the heart of our current president.
But the fact is I do believe when you honor god.
That the nation could be the less -- the Bible says blessed is the nation.
Who's got as the lord I also believe blessed is the nation whose leader lives and loves.
The lord so at this time I believe that every born again believer needs to praying not in November but today.
On our -- for this president because the Bible also admonished us to pray for those in authority because I found that prayer.
Is more powerful than the Pentagon President Obama -- our prayers his family needs our prayers that cabinet congress and country needs our prayers.
But that -- be settled now and November.
But the main thing is both candidates need prayer and America.
Needs it more than ever like to say one more thing it was Reagan who said that if America stops being the nation of in god we trust.
We will immediately start becoming a nation.
A nation that has gone under and Australia's great for being down under but America still needs to be that light at city on the hill shining brightly.
Rabbi I want to give you an honest because.
Do you sit in Washington job -- attacking Mitt Romney's faith.
In just like what is this about Maine and they're in a censor all Christian.
Why are they attacking him I think look I even within Judaism the islanders finished analysts -- -- there and -- that this -- -- and sometimes when it's your own you got this handled better.
Now I am but look I think when it comes to any person there are two things at the times -- off limits and and one is -- in an election.
One is a religion and others are family and I think it's really going to be up to Mitt Romney.
About whether he wants do you know had this conversation or not and people will judge it in that way.
I'd say the last time when he ran four years ago -- -- when he ran as she read a couple books on -- religion and companies -- educational.
And it was a teaching moment that you hear you had a candidate and and you know I'd really like to it -- understand what his beliefs are.
The so you know I I -- with President Obama said in terms of having it be off limits.
You know it whether Mitt Romney wants to put it on or not it's really up to him I know that there was a question -- recently.
By someone his audiences any kind of said you know we're not talking religion.
And I think we have to respect that because he's running out to be the head of the Mormon Church is -- to be the president United States.
You know would be wonderful -- to talk about his personal -- it would be wonderful but that's really up to him credit and it's kind of.
On though that when.
Obama was running there was so much about his faith you know disease is -- true Christian -- president.
The poll done not too long ago a couple years ago that actually show that it went 18% of people actually still well but he was a Muslim.
There was a lot of misunderstanding or you do expect -- about his own -- so.
But but do you really think that we can avoid talking but when he gets down and dirty when he gets real close and the only distinction between them will be this -- -- -- -- you know.
I think the president horrible job when he was running and he gave that speech from about religion and Andy took it head on it.
Again I think it's -- -- be up -- will will we avoided calling not -- avoided this by gonna come up at some point and the bottom line is we're a country of religion.
Many religions and wonderful religions but he ended day.
On your dollar bill says in god we trust -- and did that the folks who created this country believed in god and thank god they did.
They're able throws off the tyranny of the British because they believe in a higher power.
So that is always an under current I think it will come out I think it'll be wonderful.
Again I think it's going to be totally up to Mitt Romney at the point where he thinks he do it and I think we'll probably doing a really really.
-- -- -- -- at the last word here.
Well I just want to wish you guys happy Easter and regarding we -- in politics -- life I'm I would just like this area in twenty seconds.
The first time that the lord did come.
Lauren as you know he came as a kid the next time he's coming as the king.
The first time he came he was there -- injected cornerstone the next time he's the rock of ages the first time he came he did carry that cross.
The next time he comes he's carrying the whole government on his shoulders the first time he came he stood before -- pilot.
But the next time -- comes -- pilot is gonna stand before him.
The answers in life is not in the White House it's not in the school -- it's still in the church house and god we trust.
Well thank you very much very well -- thank you very much frank -- Vandalism leader for a 2012 Olympics thank you so much.
And that rabbis Steve Byrd thank you so much for being here and just think -- the -- -- -- that thank you.