New testimony in bail hearing for George Zimmerman
Legal panel reacts to developments in the case
- Duration 10:02
- Date Apr 20, 2012
Legal panel reacts to developments in the case
Also in this playlist...
This transcript is automatically generated
Well -- -- back in session on the docket today stunning new testimony in the bail hearing for George Zimmermann this morning.
As -- investigator behind the State's second degree murder charge takes the stand his name is dale -- -- He was grilled by Zimmerman defense attorney over his assertions.
Behind -- Zimmerman arrest it was his probable cause affidavit that led to the second degree murder charge including this claim that quote.
Zimmerman confronted him Marten and -- struggle ensued on the night in question so according to this investigator it was Zimmerman who initiated.
The critical confrontation.
But did the investigator contradict that claim this morning was in here.
-- you know we started to find.
Who I know -- know to have any evidence that supports.
Who may have started -- -- Joining me now discuss -- -- they'll bark and mark backlash both our defense attorneys.
And both used to be prosecuted.
Is that a problem job yes but for the -- at problems with that that's a huge hurdle.
This they have to prove that that George government would be attacker that they have to prove that George Zimmermann acted wooden mallet and -- -- an investigator don't need investigator who admitted publicly that -- thanked.
He got I don't know we started the fight that it best.
Only that it's something they will not overcome and I think today that the prosecution and I I mean it seems like an important the -- -- who who started the fight hoop through the first blow out.
If you -- you're looking at stand if you're looking at stand your ground and are self defense is the heart of this case -- is of course.
Who threw the first punch would be deemed in my opinion the aggressor is critical because if you are the aggressor you don't get stand your ground and unity.
If you're the aggressor the jurors are not going to give you the self defense benefit that you're asking for this does go to trial right.
So so so then it.
So then does this tell us that -- the states.
Theory is all about Zimmerman.
Stalking -- following Martin how -- want to describe it if it appears to me that that their their argument is going to be.
He created the circumstances of the ultimate confrontation.
Whether he was the one who threw the first -- or not.
He's responsible for the death.
That -- John -- does that get a second degree murder charge done.
Get them a lot closer than they were at the end of the testimony today because in addition to improving that which.
-- that theory essentially did proved they remain in defense of stand your ground -- that would get the prosecution a long way.
But in addition to that -- in the prosecution has to prove.
The depraved heart.
And the mallet because you need that to get a murder conviction burst -- they have manslaughter conviction mark -- and that was listening to investigator today it sounded to me like.
-- that evidence that might support.
A manslaughter charge right where you act reckless you you make bad decisions and it winds up with somebody dying.
But where was the evidence of depraved indifference to human life.
I didn't see -- today and I still don't see it if you look at the probable cause affidavit.
Ill will hatred or -- Maybe that's what he was feeling or maybe he was just -- an ego and frustration.
Because other people had quote gotten away.
If the evidence is equally consistent with another feeling -- yes -- falls short.
Of second degree.
Then that then it that this investigator was asked about his assertion in his affidavit this is what the police use the DA DA uses to go in charge is Imran.
He asserted that affidavit that Zimmerman to remember this is a critical moment at which the 911 operator tells -- -- okay we don't need you to follow him.
And the question is whether Zimmerman continued to pursue him it on the -- -- it sounds like he did not.
But in the affidavit the -- of the investigators said Zimmerman disregarded that dispatcher and continue to follow mark.
Today on the stand.
They he was asked about that -- Do you have any evidence that complex with suggestion that Zimmerman turned away and it from trip -- and went back to his car answer.
What I mean what they do -- mark with a.
Well let me put -- my prosecutors had just for a moment.
At that point let's say he does turn away at some point he winds up clearly face to face with trade -- Their theory and it's not fined one in terms of the evidence they offered today that some someone -- -- shadowy figure going by their house I didn't even understand it I'll think it supports that he followed him but.
He already Amy and -- quickly -- an eight that they investigator made reference to some witness seeing two figures chase right after one another but but wasn't able Ellis who was chasing home.
But the best argument I think they're gonna make is that I eventually -- after being told not to go near him essentially.
He then is face to face a tray fonts -- that and he continued to personal home.
At some point and that led to his tragic demise you know I don't know John I don't know how this case is that play out right it and I do think you could make a case.
As -- DA.
That -- -- -- was not the one who created the circumstances of the confrontation that night that was Zimmerman it was George Zimmermann who was you know behaving as neighborhood watchman.
Argue with that if you want to but that's what he was doing and he was following this get right.
So even if he wasn't the one who ultimately confront -- turn on before the fatal shot.
You he did create the -- -- as I can see that argument.
But is that a manslaughter charge or is that a second degree murder charge I'm gonna go on record it's not a second degree murder charge it just absolutely not and -- it may not even begun manslaughter charge depending on on -- -- credibility and look.
He took the stand today in a bond hearing what -- play -- that's a very unusual but his -- and testimony would still like in my opinion I don't.
-- not come across to be the monster that so far everybody wants.
Him today right that's that was yet again I want I want to talk to you have -- but go ahead quickly yeah -- We don't have.
Have all of -- statements he gave several if they conflict.
If they don't talk about him turning away from -- bond like his brother was alleging that he did.
That makes -- the aggressive that would take away from immunity protection they're still a lot out there -- don't know why don't we don't we really don't.
Okay but -- tonight we have that sound bite from the investigator cued up I wanna play it for you and I -- -- talk a little bit more about Simmons testimony when he took the stand.
Right after this break don't go -- All right so now we've got investigators testimony teed up -- keep in mind this is it from his affidavit this guy says.
Zimmerman disregard the police dispatcher then -- -- one operator who told them not to follow it to bond anymore.
He disregarded her any can -- him any continued to follow Martin.
Now he was asked about that by the defense attorney today listen.
Do you have any evidence in your investigation to date.
Either of those two pieces of evidence that we're in his statement given several -- -- and which to protect got a ton of actor's car out.
We'll start with out.
I have nothing to indicate -- did or did not do my question was.
Do you have any evidence you couldn't -- -- for that conflicts with his contention given before he knew.
Any of the evidence.
That would conflict with the fact that he stated I walked back to my car.
What towards the -- no no evidence.
Misunderstanding -- retirement at that point Tom sense today.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Other than his statements but -- the new.
Go had a this -- host such a wrench in the entire theory of the prosecution.
Did the prosecution needs to prove.
George Zimmermann was the attacker George Zimmermann says.
Look I was I turned back to my car.
The lead investigator said when we don't have any evidence to contradict that but here we are facing second degree murder charges that.
Makes -- that mark with what you know Alan Dershowitz came out we talk about this very critical of this affidavit now we hear the investigator behind the affidavit.
Seeming to contradict parts of the affidavit where does that leave us legal.
Well the affidavit is in a charging documents as far as side the information or an indictment it just a status is probable cause it can be used however to vigorously cross examine.
The leave it it did detective as we saw today and it will play a role in front of the jury that for sure well what do you make the what did -- does -- mean if not more -- -- Only have about a minute left Donna what did you make -- Zimmerman takes the stand today well one can't I thought it was brilliant on the part of the defense and here's why he put him up to say one thing.
I am sorry and the parents of mr.
Martin within the within the audience.
That was genius and then he stopped and -- -- -- prosecution cross examine that was such an actual cross examination he would.
Trying to think George government look bad I'd get fat and he failed at that so it with a brilliant it was the defense guard.
It was I agree it was it was a dress rehearsal because he.
Past due in order to win this case he's gonna have to testify sure he's got -- say that he was in -- -- so get them ready for the -- hearing.
Getting ready get him ready for the trial itself in front of jurors there's no downside to judge isn't going to determine bond based on what he said -- doesn't he's gonna do it on everything else I think it was a brilliant move.
He is out he will be out on bond now within the next day or so they believe.
We do not weather hit -- know whether her sense if Florida panel great job thank you both so much you.