Choice words for the late Chuck Colson
Drs Alex McFarland and Karl Benzio cover the latest faith based headlines
- Duration 23:51
- Date Apr 27, 2012
Drs Alex McFarland and Karl Benzio cover the latest faith based headlines
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Actually you actually -- Chuck Colson but I was really disturbed in -- -- and I'm on different levels when I read that to frank Schaeffer -- was actually the son of Francis -- well -- 9 AM theologian.
And was wrong with us he said evangelical christianity lost one of -- -- Lebanon bigoted homophobic and misogynist it.
Ways is with the death of Charles I'm chuck Colson to Watergate found -- Who converted to evangelicals aren't and never lost his taste for dirty political tricks against opponents it's -- what does that say to you you know -- chuckles what does that say to him.
Well it's very disheartening you know we have the privilege of working with -- Colson and a number of context Saddam had him in the number of conferences to speak and then the Manhattan declaration which is something that he was behind it.
A lot of great cause is not not the least of which is his outreach to prisoners in the Bible has a lot to say about reaching out to those that are in prison and in jail and this past Easter was the first Easter Sunday in the last thirty plus years that he had not been in -- prison to -- it was simply because -- -- health.
This Robert vehemently disagree with a fraction a first.
-- assessment there.
They are also frank Schaeffer in recent years has also made headlines you know but I -- book he wrote a very disparaging book about his own dad.
Who is -- worldwide respected as you said -- religion and apologists.
And -- the last day chuck Colson was in his office I had the privilege of being their at a luncheon with some Christian leaders.
And I was very touched and this is pretty much verbatim.
Possibly -- -- you're eighty years old you're starting another initiative verso that your age where are you doing this.
Verbatim chuck Colson said I'm in love with Jesus I'm sold out to Jesus and I will serve Jesus as long as I live.
-- so when you look at his his life change.
After his Watergate years in his incarceration and his service.
Building the world's largest outreach to prisoners in the tens of thousands of families that he's helped.
His own personal testimony.
-- I would say that.
Schaefer has has made an error.
-- disagreeing with some of calls since theology and then extrapolating about his eternal destiny.
I -- he simply numb right do you adapt and so I disagree and it's -- that some unfortunate and I think on.
Remarks the other -- -- -- you know when you're it's the White House and networked as it -- what was it like that's New York but -- sorry about that because we live in New York.
What you think about just it you know when you hear someone like that talk about someone like chuck Colson.
-- what one of the comments he made ways that only a political liberal.
-- true Christian and -- and certainly has some stances.
On some social policy issues of same sex marriage as well as.
Being -- pro life person I think there's a psychiatrist what -- often see people struggle with these the idea that.
They always have to say yes and that's the only loving response but yes is -- always a loving response you know as parents we know that very easily.
When a child asked to stay up to 12 o'clock on school night -- once -- purple -- screamer and you probably want the keys to the car saying no he's a very loving answer.
I think sometimes it's hard for people are reconciled.
Whether it's individual relationships or social policy when we see noticed somebody would see them have hurt feelings you know I want to have an abortion.
No that's not -- you know according to God's instruction book the way we should live our lives weren't.
Forcing sex marriage no to say -- would see that that displeasure in a person's eyes.
-- -- it's hard for us to tolerate that so we often and so yes yes okay go ahead and do that Clinton but god you know didn't.
And liberalism is more relativism.
Conservative it is and -- more absolutes in the Bible is about absolutes.
We didn't make those god does but these instruction book is very clear -- if we need to do for healthy living.
To occur which of course I think was an advocate for those things and enforcing frank -- seemed to interpret.
You know if you check these clear guidelines and and and -- displeasure and others didn't mean you're going to help.
Does it also strikes me about this is that am when chuckles and nine all of the -- about his Watergate past started to come up again.
And many people had not realized -- -- many on public under the age of maybe figure 35.
Wouldn't put the two together didn't -- was a big deal -- -- only knows how Coulson as part of this prison ministry.
But there is this sense that.
Some people won't believe in true conversion -- -- changed.
And it and and and doctor I want you to.
Talk about that because your psychiatrist can people actually affect real change over their lines and actually make it real.
And not just well I got caught and I'm gonna make a change.
What I like hostile work this is what we do on time we help people at the least of these.
-- -- talked about that are struggling.
I myself and recovering alcoholic.
In Joseph Gregory just -- God has done incredible miracle my -- transformed my -- you told vehicle hit a home.
It's God's work its -- power in my life and our staff most of them have their recovery stories and guys miracle in their life.
And we work we -- 700 calls a -- of people in these desperate situations we see god working in their lives and powerful ways.
The gospel is incredibly powerful and -- -- miracles is transforming.
-- it's not surprising you know -- we know that all people together from good to those who have the in order call -- purpose would shock after yesterday going through his situations that he did they learned.
I have treasury auction experience he -- he would use those experiences to allow him to get -- -- prisons and understand -- -- tremendous spokesperson profit for him in the situation.
Let let me say this talking about on -- than chuck Colson as a testimony -- the gospels power to change lives permanently.
In one of his books life sentence that he who came out and seventies.
I'm chuck Colson in his prison ministry.
One time brought together.
The former head of the black Panthers Eldridge Cleaver the former head of the Ku Klux Klan -- both of whom came to Jesus Christ.
These two -- that only months prior would've.
Tried to kill each other -- embraced and then Begin leading Bible studies.
Now I'm we're so far removed from the sixties people might -- miss the import of this but think about it.
Not only that changed life the permanently change -- chuck Colson.
Have -- common ground could.
The former head of the black Panthers and former head of the kkk can't possibly find in Jesus Christ and I think this story is not that.
There were on you know baggage and chuckles has passed we -- have baggage were all sinners Allison MacFarlane as a -- As a safe -- that.
-- I think the great story is the power of Jesus Christ to truly.
Pervasively and permanently change lives for the better.
Yeah I mean I think that there's we've got -- M.
And and a little.
Chad you're coming in -- -- God's laws on manslaughter father in heaven -- -- that the terms and it is up to -- agreed to this terms do you agree.
I mean it's -- and these are the hard things I think this what I'm -- even that it must -- that was actually talking about this sort of it's.
Willingness or unwillingness to sort of -- a real -- kind of of -- faith and and -- onto what I think god wants from me.
-- you know as a psychiatrist we see tremendous signs now that shows that these -- -- just days if you have anything a computer or anything that's been created.
-- find out how does it work the best you go to the instruction manual.
-- god is our creator gave us an instruction in the Bible and we know now lives psychiatrist had many books on myself the best psychiatric textbook I have is the -- But that's -- on me saying it as we do studies now and look teaching biblical principles of forgiveness conflict resolution.
Parenting -- people's brain scans specs into the -- actually get better.
They've proved they can stronger renewing the mind is the Bible -- it whenever they don't users biblical principles.
Due to their creator the instruction in their brain chemistry gets injured.
No I want I want an -- not -- to think before I do I wanna own doctor.
-- Nancy if you could ask answer questions about this particular person.
Frank -- Who is this son of Francis Schaeffer and for many people know Francis Schaeffer is -- What causes a person to go so far in the other direction.
From what his father taught.
And and and -- a public about it I think that's kind of at the core of this.
-- it's you know it's it's Spears' situation a difficult situation to see somebody's -- so much influence -- positive influence would be such a kind -- have.
You know beat anybody -- -- -- your child disparagement that way.
You know we don't really know what happened inside -- house sometimes you get situations -- we know with the with the grants that if dad is out doing a lot of stuff.
And sometimes -- -- there to be apparent is he -- to really fathers to -- to be a mentoring -- positive.
You know affirmation sometimes a person driven like Francis -- sounds like he was.
If sometimes -- his kids to a certain standard.
-- sometimes it is hard to live up to that they try real hard but when it comes up and when you're doing -- -- their own effort sometimes you just as thousands if they welcome will go in this direction instead.
Yeah -- -- -- working in youth ministry as I have for a lot of years some there's no saying rules without relationship brings rebellion.
And move it let me think about that and it it may have -- -- you know there's another old saying you know what does it profit a man to -- in the whole world -- -- His children and then we don't know what went on in the -- household that you know there's that numerous stories of preachers kids gone bad.
In May be -- -- parameters the rules but not relationship and the context in which those are passed on.
Sometimes it's the the children of the -- that rebuild and go for a strict.
But some edit edit I got wind screens to the Catholic church and knowing that -- priest merry go out to be in a slight little -- good.
But so so anyway I'm.
I have every conviction spiritually and by what I observed in his life that -- chuckles there's with the lord in heaven in all believers who.
-- when they see him again here.
Okay I wanted to -- and they the next topic because the controversy has erupted down.
Last week after liberty university -- it is and I don't local Christian -- announced that Mitt Romney a Mormon would deliver the commencement address the schools flooded with comments and complaints.
So much so that it had to dismantle -- comments page this website.
I wanna laugh a little this sort of hash out the problem here with.
Mitt Romney and evangelicals this is a constant issue.
That he cannot escape from and Alex and personal just your reaction to deliberating university reaction this this is -- students not from I've received the university and invited him and this is.
My alma mater I did and they have -- them.
Well you know if this is not the first time that they've had non Evan -- locals this commencement speakers didn't -- that -- Glenn Beck a Mormon splinter.
And and I understand why.
I think I understand why Mitt Romney would want that speaking engagement and and it's a high profile.
Speaker and it is a university.
Not a -- adversity you've got a plurality of ideas.
But it let -- I can understand the consternation -- of of the students that have gone there to get a Christian education and and I do think this this is something that I would say.
If I wore.
Because when I was president of the scenario I brought in speakers that were controversial moment but what what I would say is.
-- bringing in a speaker this is an opinion maker of presidential candidate might one day out by the White House.
Just because we're bringing him -- does not necessarily mean that we're endorsing work.
Condemning all of his beliefs or ideas or policies.
But I understand why he would want to understand why there's this difference and what the -- can't let you saw and I say well I think.
That here this is -- celebration a wonderful days I'm Rebecca my graduation -- is -- their children will graduate shortly from college but it's it's a positive day two.
The -- steeped in that Christian tradition that the school is.
To bring a speaker that is a mixed message or.
Do they talk about openly and some of the creek and the Mormon is a mystical than they're bringing this person -- hopefully they've taught them some discerning skills to the four years -- -- I don't think graduation day.
Is the forum to be able to put this controversial situation on display.
If you know reality is that said you know we need to bring speakers -- that represented a bunch of different.
Points of view and perspectives but I would -- -- do that in more for speakers' forum during the course of the higher.
And do a lot of person to speak and then to be able to present -- Christian view you know.
That the university would talk about to help these impressionable.
Late teens young adults understand how -- -- fuse and integrate their faith in how they're gonna practice in in.
One of the things that I really interesting -- -- because here you've got I didn't realize how much ingrained this -- in their curriculum because the first semester at Liberty University includes the -- -- -- want an apologetic when I want you you can't escape what's your theology is -- that's required of all should just going and and one of the things that they say.
Is that they look at a -- is and as.
As standing in in stark contrast to.
Judaism and christianity is that -- mafia has some basically even the Southern Baptist Convention has called.
In the -- -- a cult.
This is -- this is this is not just.
A sort of another philosophy and we're not and we're talking about a man -- is actually running for the the office of president Glenn Beck isn't as -- is it.
Is that is that he's an entertainer -- Beason is if you know in a media figure he's not running for office isn't very different kind of Apple -- what -- I've got to say this as as a conservative and it's a Christian you know I got I've got her red flags -- in that.
I'm at the word -- is a strong word in and I don't think that we should use that word lightly.
However there urgently theological and sociological attributes of a -- theological generally -- Denial of Christ's DT denial of the Bible -- Scott's final written revelation sociological attributes of the called include.
Pressure to join pressure to remain.
And I would say the LDS church.
They definitely -- the deity of Christ as understood by classical orthodoxy they definitely did not Bible as being the in the written revelation of god he definitely denied.
The classically orthodox view of salvation in the -- in the they -- there is pressure to join this pressure to remain.
I want my best friends and a graduate of -- the -- that I -- sled is a former Mormon missionary and he has told me time and again about that the intense pressure that was put on him when he became a Christian and left the earliest church.
Another thing that I think is is worth pointing out that.
-- -- And I would just a minute I know I knew on woman's -- -- people you don't listen to -- good friends and I never get the impression that there there are because they're being forced in some way that they're being.
Impression to stay in some way it's just part of who they are and now I mean it's.
And in an end.
And I wanted to -- the idea are you saying that did they don't believe the deity of Christ is that true is that part of a fifty -- -- -- -- no deity of Christ because that would put on a plane.
As a Muslim because Muslims do believe that Jesus was a great profit but he was not divine.
Will Dayton today not only easy -- this sometimes there -- groups that believe too little than their group groups that really -- too much you don't make the Bible say less than what it says or more than what it says.
They would believe in.
-- a view of the deity of Christ that they would also believe in the deity of Lauren Green.
And the deity of Alex McFarland I'm not the classical idea of the trinity father son holy spirit that Jesus.
Is of the same nature as as god the father.
In the Mormon Church they believe that that god who it is possible for all people.
Instead they would believe that all people ultimately could become deity.
They knew of one of their famous sayings is as as man now we -- So god wants war -- as god now we as -- man can be.
I mean that's what kind of one of their -- seems and so they would say that Jesus is a garment.
But he not.
Exactly what Jesus meant when he said I and the father -- one.
And the doctrine of the trinity is a very complex doctrine but there's one god who has revealed himself to humanity in three persons Ferguson who spear.
Not multiple gods and so I'm in a strictly -- -- since mormons are -- fiesta.
Many gods and underwear as christianity is it christianity and Judaism are Mon I think it's.
They were really union define planes under a theology here and I think of how we let's lot of people's eyes can glaze over when you're talking about a -- Gary.
-- -- get Carl when you click here.
But let's -- -- and what are your thoughts on the whole idea of what's happening with him that Liberty University Mitt Romney.
-- I think that it's it.
People need to be able to be clear about this is what christianity is in this is -- a moral person is -- -- -- person isn't necessarily Christian and unfortunately.
A Christian sometimes isn't a moral person but there.
When we see things that Mormon isn't that have a lot of similar values just christianity we sort of maybe clump them in or please refer to resonate together.
For me I think this is play more of a political.
-- deal that's being made of -- look will give you some.
Evangelical vote there were some major airtime in the evangelical voting bloc and for that we'd like to have some.
Part -- that platform or some say -- someone's -- things that and more of the issue.
To me that's two wrongs -- equal right.
-- -- may be young analogy to speak to this because you're -- and then of Liberty University but are they caring more about Republican politics than they are.
About the gospel.
Which is what they're tree where they -- with to preach.
I don't I definitely know that by giving him that platform they are definitely adding some legitimization to his.
Campaign in the eyes of the evangelicals you're listening 1960 and John F.
Kennedy spoke to the -- this in Houston Texas -- That -- that was the first Roman Catholic president and he laid out.
He really set their hearts -- -- here's what we agree on.
I'm -- -- can't really do that because on Catholics and evangelicals have a world of theology in common.
Arm and I've used many Roman Catholic apologists in the conference is up and down.
And then Evans -- have far less common theological ground and do Roman Catholics and evangelicals -- every and then people compared to 1916 JFK.
And bet on the comparison is not exactly.
Existing site is not really apples and oranges but it's maybe Apple's -- -- Greg delicious and Romans are -- OK I -- -- -- that the next topic has is Tim Tebow really and virgin like he claims.
Welcome -- who website is offering one million dollars to the woman who can prove she slept with Tim Tebow.
While the NFL is dealing with the scandals offer that's one thing but Christian but a Christian post asked.
The question of whether this so called bounty is a form of prostitution.
-- with doctor.
You know up prostitution now we certainly paying for somebody to go and have sex with somebody it certainly sounds like prostitution I think the bigger issue here is the idea that.
Knows whose creator Scott.
He knows what's instruction book is that needs to follow his life with and he follows it according to everybody that's been around and sees him if he -- -- correct agree great Christian industry.
And if you've reached the fruit of the spirit and joy peace containment passion.
Purpose and value mean you know I didn't say mall but do that -- the for the flesh and war -- -- for sure the true spirit and more.
I think that makes people jealous.
And makes people angry library and in the process and with that anger and jealousy that they.
Because they've tried it their way and it doesn't work.
And they're angry that they don't have what he has.
Because they think they can do with the right way but they don't have -- fulfilling aspects so I'm either gonna drag him down since you know -- -- -- or.
-- -- some -- -- -- you know -- Christ picks on our sin but we take on his -- I think if they can somehow doing with him they might feel that they can take on his.
I don't think you and I don't think there's any chance of -- -- -- -- -- with Tim Tebow this is Ashley Madison dot -- the controversial website.
That helps married individuals have affairs so they're already yes ask Donald at all so you see -- basically saying and -- at a press release out saying that Tim Tebow.
Used his infamy -- called -- for me to get some ladies in in the sack.
And there are seeking to prove it by saying we'll offer a million dollars ending lady who's actually done it and will prove it and whether another -- -- the shot a million dollars and in anyone's guess but.
I guess it's so -- that they could actually promote.
Someone actually trying to sleep with him just to get the -- -- I was he's pastor for seven years Lauren and there were clicks -- High schoolers would try to press pressure others to lose their virginity and -- -- my wife and I were counseling with arms and teenagers.
You know I just asked these teenage.
Students -- what what he did that.
And a girl -- something that I thought was an admission that really goes along with what you sit.
She said well that the Christian girls that are still virgins and so -- have a -- about them.
And it was very emotional she said.
On those of us that have lost our virginity and -- things that we now regret we've lost our shine and they haven't and I hate that.
And yeah I mean we heard from people like that and I think Ellen comes a Tim Tebow who ostensibly -- kept himself -- for Mirotic.
And there are a lot of people that -- -- -- that out.
You know and -- -- point of view and I -- I was young ones I was teenager wants but if I were a teenager who had lost her virginity and and idolize Tim Tebow as a potential or fantasy man that I would really like to have.
In my mind I'm saying I wouldn't be able to see how that man because I am no longer version I -- along with the kind.
A woman who deemed worthy of someone like that's why can't stand I don't want to miss I can see where that is sort of motivating probably what you're saying -- -- and I.
Gotta say this that -- Is still the very fact that we we have this conversation that would offer million dollars to take this guy down.
I'm proves that -- purity is still a desired ideal and the and isn't.
I'm isn't that odd that purity and really is still kind of the desire -- the the standard bearer of you know I've relations worldwide and -- -- -- probably people that will -- you know kind of pooh -- this and say this is Ozzie and hear it but there's some of the god.
Who made us there's something just so celebratory.
And a beautiful about a man and wife on their wedding night.
That can give.
Each other to give themselves to each -- and the husband will never be comparing his wife to all the other conquests and vice Versa -- -- I mean volatile fashion but there's something beautiful about God's design for love how marriage and sexuality -- -- -- a -- had -- another full time when we have our society so much sexual abuse so much violence and -- rape and incest.
56 is -- as a commodity not to beautiful thing that was intended to be for something to equate to love works have to ensure connection or power or control.
And it's it's just such a terrible tragic how we've been through -- fixate on the physical element of it not a spiritual and psychological -- Well until you -- pay for Tim Tebow and him that he comes out of this sound OK I I want thank the panel they thank you so much doctor Carl.
-- you don't psychiatrist and president of lighthouse network.
And at that Alex McFarland director worldview and apologetic North Greenville University thank you both for being here to thank you -- Wagner thank you so -- thank you so much with them.