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-- one year after the raid that killed Osama bin Laden a former high ranking CIA officials speaking out and arguing that the harsh interrogation techniques.
That were employed by the Bush Administration played a larger role in providing the intelligence road map that eventually led to the terrorist compound.
Jose Rodriguez junior spent 31 years in the CIA's clandestine service.
-- after the 9/11 attacks he led the agency's Counterterrorism Center we try.
The with determination.
And we focus.
In the new book hard measures Rodriguez defends the enhanced interrogation techniques.
Like waterboarding was used after 9/11 on some of Al qaeda's top leadership.
The poster boy for enhanced interrogation techniques -- al-Qaeda operative Abu zubaydah was captured in Pakistan after a shoot out.
Zubaydah was questioned using these procedures and -- began providing information on T al-Qaeda operatives debated and a five Ramzi bin -- GE.
The information zubaydah provided helped lead to did capture -- -- and together these two terrorists provided information.
That captures Khalid Sheikh Mohammad Khalid Sheikh Mohamed.
What's the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks.
It's pretty ugly terror leaders wherever water boarded a technique seen here in -- demonstration but Rodriguez says he interrogations led to the interruption of at least.
And the large scale plots in the capture of many more to.
There's a lot of things can differ as to whether or not they're comfortable with fellow detective that we -- -- that's a fair debate.
But you don't get to say that the techniques didn't.
But some kids say that it didn't work including then speaker of the house Nancy Pelosi who claimed not to know that it was happening at all.
You're accusing the CIA help log -- in September without bleeding to -- with the -- that.
And annual meeting that come from.
Yet Rodriguez himself but a delegation to Capitol Hill to briefed congressional leaders including Pelosi the only mention of waterboarding at that -- -- -- -- -- Game.
And she seemed to backtrack when documents show that her aide Michael Sheehy had been briefed specifically about the war reporting.
He informed me that everything has taken place.
Can't tell you hit the tee was informed -- were you actually using -- You know -- -- -- he said that these.
We -- announcing.
Controversy erupted again in 2007.
When it was revealed that Rodriguez ordered the destruction of videotapes that showed up -- made -- water -- Because that's the president's -- about this time he has no recollection of being made aware.
But the tapes or their destruction before yesterday.
They'll be calling for an official investigation.
Of whether there was destruction of evidence and obstruction of justice.
In the destruction of these videotapes.
He -- Justice Department had written extensive memos detailing what was allowed under the enhanced interrogations and why it was legal.
-- -- a lawsuit by the ACLU those memos were released by the Obama administration.
Below sea mammals that -- Reflected in life.
Us losing our moral there Rodriguez in the CIA were eventually cleared of wrongdoing and the investigation branded.
These men deserve compete.
Decorated they don't deserve to be prosecuted.
Joining us now as a man of the center this controversy Jose Rodriguez junior former CIA.
The director of the CIA's national clandestine service and the author of hard measures how aggressive CIA actions after 9/11 saved American lives.
-- great to see it's a great honor and a -- -- -- for being with us thank you for inviting -- on the big fans -- I I appreciate I read the book cover to cover I'm -- -- that we can't get the -- and I'm trying get in as much -- let's start with the tape that we just set up.
You personally brief Nancy Pelosi he did.
About enhanced interrogation.
We briefed her on before September.
The interrogation of Abu zubaydah so we went through me.
Techniques that were used on him including waterboarding.
And she what she said to the American people at the time she liked.
She she is either confused or.
-- -- -- But let's go to the mindset.
And you you went into great specificity and detail you thought that we were -- flooded with the intelligence of an imminent attack.
Anthrax potential nuclear explain the mindset after 9/11.
-- we were.
Very concerned about a second wave of attacks.
We had a lot of intelligence coming in.
We had at the al-Qaeda the anthrax.
Scare off a few months before.
We were very concerned.
That would get him get hit again we had confirmed intelligence on anthrax we we who bought the al-Qaeda nuclear program.
And we we could hear this time bomb the conceded but we think he -- ticking yeah.
And so you felt another attack on this country was imminent.
And you needed as quickly as possible the intelligence.
Just save American lives.
And we get captured Abu zubaydah.
A few months earlier and Abu zubaydah was the highest level of kind of terrorists that we don't captured and -- utilities and I think.
He was severely wounded by the pakistanis plane was being captured.
So he was near death.
I -- actually brought in the best surgeons that we could find.
And saved his life.
And and then the this is where enhanced interrogations 11 thing -- -- watch the segment on sixty minutes last night and he said we are the dark side.
And I took a little issue with that even though maybe you refer to that meeting you -- on the front lines of extracting information.
Under the circumstances post 9/11 to save lives why do you call -- the dark side well.
We are in the shadows and that we do what nobody else in the US government -- I mean the FBI does it staying out of the military does -- thing we did extraordinary.
Authorities to move beyond.
And we have very special authorities to do Covert action.
For example so we operate in the shadows and that's what I meant.
Put everything you did.
When you walk us through what did you do -- Abu zubaydah and then Khalid Sheikh -- tell us what he did this.
Well there are ten techniques there were.
Approved by beauty.
In August of 2002.
And I say in the book could -- measures that actually a pretty -- if you if you really.
If the American people.
I couldn't look these techniques where -- would -- black are you talking about because for example the first Sony's media attention -- You grab somebody and bring him closely you can look him straight in the -- You know to let him holders -- -- -- town and just you know and slapped him well that's the number three.
-- -- -- insult slap in how we.
You know I think it's it's a slap -- acknowledged it's it's not torture and it's -- open hand so as not to part of but.
It's it's you know people take offense -- that didn't you know -- he gets their attention they're naked.
They are in most cases they're naked yes it's -- -- sleep deprivation.
There is sleep deprivation yes.
There is caloric.
Reduction to take you know two years.
Right what else.
There is the facial hold can grab -- by the facing -- again.
-- can look at him.
So those are the conditioning.
Once then there is a couple of stress techniques.
You sit on the floor you've put your hands above your head right and it -- is -- muscle fatigued.
There is -- To make them as uncomfortable and miserable -- possible so you can get information correct okay.
And what we're gonna get into the -- What we call waterboarding is next but it's also done under supervision very strict guidelines Larry -- annually get it to three people exactly Abu -- This Khalid shake Mohammed right and and a Russian machinery who was the the person responsible for the bombing of the USS -- Helps -- my opinion help stabilize that.
Some people deny and -- we'll -- you make that case we get back.
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