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Thomas E. Mann and Norman Ornstein tell Alan why they blame Republicans for the gridlock in Washington
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Welcome your microphones on the -- -- senior fellow.
At the Brookings Institution and Norma.
-- it's even worse than it looks now the American constitutional system collided.
With a new politics of extremism and op Ed piece written in advance of the release the book where -- -- -- and it has gotten a lot of attention Thomas.
Are you surprised by the reaction.
We really have -- We've never.
Had.
This kind of overwhelming public response.
The Washington Post outlook he went plywood that we had.
Something like two and 44000.
-- book recommendations.
Over 3000.
Tweets Norman and I individually we have heard from.
Hundreds.
Of the individuals.
By the way in the any.
Self identified Republicans unhappy with what's been happening to -- party.
As well it's a good number of reporters.
Unhappy with the norms with and the news organization.
That put them -- but -- what.
Is this blood.
And by the way you -- a bunch of wild eyed liberals.
I know that.
You know Brookings is tennis over that kind of -- -- -- daily -- -- you're both centers then what what appeared unable -- -- -- seventh in the Washington Post.
There's a piece that -- -- to say at the Republicans are the problem Norman.
This is not equivalency in terms of where the roadblocks are the moving -- in this country right.
Exactly so and you know -- hesitated before doing this in a way because.
You know it's not typical.
Say well they both do it.
But that's the reality it's a stark reality of our time that we have a party that's -- as we say and insurgent Al liar.
That is willing to throw a wrench into the works so for its own political -- And to be frank -- We keep getting confirmation of this day by day by day.
You look at what Richard Murdoch said after he knocked off -- Lugar.
Grenades.
And it.
And you know I actually joked with the Indianapolis reporter -- saying please thank Richard Murdoch for me he's going to be great.
-- -- what he said was that isn't it bipartisanship means it Democrats have to agree with us.
-- and basically my way or the highway as if not we'll crush you.
And as Bill Clinton said that yesterday if that's what prevails we hit the country are -- to.
And I'm afraid that's true and and you get John Boehner.
But really we portray as much more but wait for -- forces somebody kind of -- position.
By his own leadership team but by his old colleagues away from solving problems.
But now turning into perpetrators themselves by basically saying okay well the debt limit hostage -- will -- the country's economy hostage.
To our demands that's just no way for a cut parties operate.
And narrow tunnel of course saying well let's look -- those just Obama out of office and Thomas the idea that.
You know.
Norman mentioned the Lugar raise the -- that the fact that the senator like Lugar highly respected.
Tremendously accomplished.
Would be thrown out of office by somebody like Murdoch to me I find Hispanic he got -- Libya's believing in Maine you've got people like -- no longer in office this is what's happening.
Did did.
Yeah exactly it really has -- some of these people are are.
Our Chilean -- conservatives.
That there in 2000 wouldn't.
The conservative.
Runoff.
Military it's really sad -- back.
Conservatives.
Traditionally -- of error about stability.
And patents.
But the new Republican Party is really a radical party that wants.
Renegotiate.
A 102 years of social and economic.
Policy and that's and hour and then on holding hostage and using any means to.
In there have been with the deficit and -- -- immediate cuts but two things.
Our are to be about that you know.
Sort of what we on this.
Their proposals.
Would increase the deficits and debt because they're really about pac.
Reduction not about.
Not about.
Don't do that since -- sure you bet if you look at what.
How these came about and it wasn't that long ago that we had budget surpluses.
As far as the -- good thing he in 2000 and -- it's.
Policy decisions.
Bad that have lived with the deficit spot.
The last thing we need is a radical -- Austerity.
Europeans who have followed which -- -- -- any.
Signs of blog all of their economy.
-- -- in the the tax pledges the Norquist of the world I think you actually Trace.
The beginning of the problems they don't blame two people in particular nor quick -- Grover Norquist.
And Newt Gingrich dating back to 1979.
When he entered congress and had an agenda to really change -- the landscape.
You know common idea we're actually spent that eight -- running typical with the congress project.
Oh win both classes 78 but that's people elected -- -- -- centers came in.
And we -- a project we brought a number of the new members in for regular.
Off the record bidders.
Through the first two years.
-- among them also among them Geraldine Ferraro and Dick Cheney.
But the -- it's full blown theory about how to capture -- Republican majority in the house after at that point 24 consecutive years of democratic majorities.
And it was we've got to destroy this institutions nor does it say that.
And the residue from that remains and then you've got both Grover Norquist of the whole idea pledges and if you look at the Norquist tax pledge a privilege for -- for.
Which includes its -- we don't do taxes but if you go and -- tax reform.
To increase some taxes in order to cut others to make it revenue neutral you're violating the pledge.
And 95%.
Or more of the Republicans in the house of the senate has signed that -- how are you gonna solve the debt problem.
When everybody including every non partisans as bipartisan group says.
Significant portion of -- -- come -- revenues.
When you -- party -- because of the pledge says we can't increase revenues at time it's insane.
Which -- -- Thomas Mann and Norman Ornstein in their new book is called it's even worse and it looks.
And they have great out there to appease in the -- and those relief -- What what is being said in this book.
This -- also Tom that.
Democrats and independents as you point out more likely to want to reach of the across the aisle to negotiate the compromise and it was I just as well and that.
-- There really isn't.
I would much -- -- Evian I'm OK we get -- economic let's let's address the issue of who are willing to reach out the outside.
And you know look what state develop one part of that is that Democrats.
Believe more in government so compromises.
That's solve problems that includes some government involvement are going to be more natural to Democrats.
But I also think there's that just that broader difference of attitude here you look at the debt limit -- holding that country.
Hostage.
You're basically willing to tolerate the -- -- credit.
And unless it's gonna be amateur old brand as Mitch McConnell said in another famous statement.
You know what -- economy go right down the toilet in the short run.
To satisfy political goals and demands.
That's just not political parties we have parliamentary parties right now -- particular is behaving in a -- that just goes against.
The political culture that we have and it -- that this system where you can have divided government as we do now he can't have a minority party that says we're gonna vote no on everything.
So -- really solve the problem how -- we get to finally get to where we need to bit.
It's not going to be easy.
Is it is not something that we're gonna -- overnight to and in the book we devote half of that to looking at both things not to do.
Like believe that a third party will rescue us or we can just ride this out and everything will be fine short term limits will solve it.
Along with things that we can't do that among them are a whole series of ways you try to expand.
The voting population the number of people voting because -- driven by -- -- basis now you see that at all of these primaries.
And we need to.
Get more people out including the voters in the middle -- have a different.
And -- you rather than a right wing in -- -- to the right now is clamping down.
I'm voter ID creating it's trying to solve a problem doesn't exist is very few incidences of voter fraud but they're still trying to narrow the base claiming fraud is taking place and they -- to take action.
But I want to.
We recommend -- a new voting rights act that.
Protects people.
I'm with the right to vote which is -- sacred -- -- about to a thirty seconds left we got Tom -- back on the phone service that obviously disconnect if I was asking domino what we do to solve the problem.
And -- expanding voting of course being an important thing -- the right wing doesn't want that right now.
-- they're doing everything they can to decrease folding among groups of people who -- Have a high probability of -- -- a democratic.
Ally.
I actually think until we get the electorate to rein in the Republican Party bring them back.
