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Life inside DC's political machine

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    Jeff Himmelman on how one editor made decisions that changed the course of American history

  • Duration 7:14
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Welcome back to the foxhole I'm still your host and I'm still James Rosen.

We want to let you know that we have been receiving your chats but there was a slight technical glitch in relaying them to me Ted Yost.

We did read your question for Shannon -- I promise -- casket of her later today.

And she will not even be able to escape I will be so diligent about that time now in our third segment to enrich ourselves with a little foxhole culture.

Ten days ago a thirty something writer named Jeff -- woman.

Became national news -- excerpts from his book you were seeing truth a personal portrait of Ben Bradley appeared on the website of New York magazine.

The furor that erupted was swift and explosive -- with access to the personal archives of the legendary Washington Post editor.

Kimmelman was able to report that Ben Bradlee himself as long harbored residual fear in his soul.

About the accuracy of Bob -- various accounts of his shadow -- meetings with his famous Watergate source deep throat on top of that.

-- woman discovered documentary proof that Woodward and Carl Bernstein the Pulitzer Prize winning sleuths of Watergate did in fact interview a member of the Watergate grand jury.

Most likely an illegal act and when they denied having committed for forty years.

And we're still -- woman showed how the reporters misled their readers about the source in the pages of their -- book All the President's Men.

Jeff can woman joins me now Jeff thanks for doing this thanks application not congratulations on this book it's cost quite a stir.

Just firsts for -- broadly speaking did we need another biography of Ben -- he had written two memoirs of sort.

Correct should.

Sure you have -- connection 75 about his relationship with president Kennedy -- conversation with Kennedy.

Everybody called a good life in 1995.

I think the real difference here is forty years after Watergate is gone.

Ben couldn't go through his own archives and say.

Look at this wonderful letter I wrote in 1974 or look at this hilarious thing I found.

And so as a young person I mean I was born after Watergate unfolded so for me it was a real trip through history and I think if it enables a reader or viewer.

To take in Ben's life in a way that he could never have described himself.

And Watergate aside what for you was the great revelation as a researcher.

In focusing on Ben Bradley for some period of time a few years probably yeah it was basically four years of my life.

He's a fascinating man he's incredibly complex man he presents is very simple.

But.

The journalistic principles of the post live -- while he was there are are really impressive and when you dig through the man's archives over.

Four years or so you realize how consistent he was consistently what.

Well he would he would say for example he said you know people talk about objectivity in reporting and we're one of the things Healy said was don't think about it objectivity think in fairness.

And I think when you think about reporting even today in today's -- -- blogs and all of that kind of stuff I think the whole fairness ideas and -- gets thrown out the window pretty quick.

And it's a very simple idea but it's a kind of thing that's very Powell Fiat if -- actually let it secret.

Let's proceed to Watergate in the revelations.

Of -- that caused such a huge controversy earlier this month.

And I gather that mr.

Woodward and Ben Bradlee and his wife.

From what you can discern feel somewhat snake bitten by you right because you were so close to them once correct.

They feel that way rightly or wrongly I think they do feel that way I I do you get the sense that you have been a sense of being ex communicated.

From what we might call the establishment.

Well I think it's been a tumultuous ten days or so I think it's gonna take a little -- time for some of those things to shake out.

I think my dinner party invitations are probably not gonna be as forthcoming as they once worked for the time being but I'm okay with that at least in Georgetown exactly.

But you know I think.

I think -- broader in the area of by telling the truth I somehow betrayed somebody I think that's pretty silly.

And I don't feel that it's accurate at all I feel the way that that's been portrayed has been pretty one sided.

But Bob Woodward from what we read in your excerpts was.

Adamant that you not publish what you want to publish about Ben -- harboring as he put it residual fear in his soul.

That will hold deep throat story wasn't quite straight as he put it he -- leaned on you hard to get you ought to publish right he did and I was faced the choice.

And I think you know I don't really think that's a -- did you feel when he was doing at that you did did you that he was trying to intimidate you.

No I mean I just think -- a very powerful person and I think he had his viewpoint any -- viewpoint very clear.

But as a reporter as a journalist as someone who is trying to tell the true story Ben -- I feel like -- an obligation to report what I found.

Including Bob's reaction -- percent of the documents to him and he reacted that we did.

And he has since reacted similarly over the last ten days.

We have another hotshot from Ted Yost who wants to know Shannon Bream will be a regular guest on this show.

The answer is if I can help us.

Returning to just doing it on the subject of Watergate the the the seven page memorandum from 1972 that Carl Bernstein type consent to Ben -- that you unearthed yet.

And which shows that will reimbursing contrary to their many many years of denials actually interviewed a grand -- that's a very important document.

You wouldn't write in the book that you were able yourself to obtain a list of the Watergate grand -- -- in order to figure out who this person -- How did you get that list.

If public domain it was a time magazine article from 1974.

I think and to truly make a had a list of everybody did you make an effort to find this woman.

I chose not to for -- -- well.

I don't want -- do anything about her but I chose not to even go down that you at all because I thought either this -- this woman or her descendants.

They don't need reporters with.

Microphones in their faces asking them questions I thought that that person -- her descendants of the private citizens do you know whether in fact this individual still alive I don't wanna say.

I don't want to say.

Well if they were alive -- if they were dead and you could feel for six and answering that question couldn't leave well but there's still people there and they may be still the -- I don't wanna I don't -- -- anybody could you could then go to the list and say who's alive who's dead I don't -- -- one direction or the other.

Because as our viewers may know some years ago Carl Bernstein and Bob Woodward donated all of their Watergate or what we were told was all of their Watergate papers -- notebooks and so forth from seventy to 76.

To the University of Texas -- Harry ransom center which paid them five million dollars for that stuff.

We now know that there are number of significant events in their coverage of Watergate for which there are no corresponding files.

Are all on file at the University of Texas.

This grand jury interview clearly is not one of those pages -- They have said that they have sought to protect their source Fred presumably the the fact that this woman hasn't been identified mean in this hasn't been deposited at the University of Texas.

Means that she's still a lot.

I mean -- -- deciding when they're gonna give their papers and on what schedule so I can't speak to their timeline.

But I think.

But the larger fact of the penetration of the grand jury is really significant thing here and I think the reaction to my book has been so personal.

But I think some of this sort of significance of the penetration of injuries and loss.

And I I think of all the revelations in my book which to me don't seem like such revelations they just seem like parts of the narrative parts of the human story of this whole thing.

Being grateful they were seeing Israel revelation yes and I -- -- social book yeah I'm not complaining current -- Thank you very much for doing this our inaugural show that.

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