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And hello again from fox and is in Washington.
The Obama and Romney campaigns battled this -- -- who has the better plan to get Americans back to work.
We want to continue that debate today with top advisors for both candidates from Wisconsin Republican Paul Ryan as chairman of the House Budget Committee.
From Chicago Austan Goolsbee -- the former chairman of the president's.
Council of economic advisors and gentlemen welcome back to FOX News Sunday.
Thank you for having this way the Obama campaign began to launch its attack on Mitt Romney's record at Bain Capital -- told the story of a steel mill.
In Kansas City that -- bank dropped in 2001 laying off 750 workers let's take a look.
Like the European car.
-- -- Dislike bush you know for him bleed to death saying capital walked away with a lot of money that they made off of this plan we vehemently Romney -- job destroyer.
And -- -- deputy campaign manager Stephanie Cutter followed up with -- the goal of Romney economics.
As always been about wealth creation not job creation.
It's wealth creation for a handful of investors like Mitt Romney not about creating jobs.
For everyone else.
That's -- they can you tell me a major CEO in this country who doesn't see his main job.
As creating wealth for his investors.
I I don't I don't know the answer that I think that's when I saw Stephanie Cutter statement it was in response to one of the Bain capital partners had set our job was wealth creation for the investors as that's every -- yeah.
What was slightly different and I and I would refer to this.
This ad not so much as an attack of -- response I mean governor Romney's been running for president.
Really for six years.
And over the last six years consistently says that his main qualification to be president is his business experience.
And then win their starts to be some examination of -- what did he do when he was running that business they get very defensive and don't.
Want to discuss that and I was feeling that you see anything they Colorado opened the records and that's okay but it has baskets or do you see anything wrong with what Bain Capital -- had put.
Lots of money millions of dollars into this steel industry at a time when the steel industry was in trouble.
What's wrong with the.
Well it depends how they did it and as I say they they ought to turn over the the annual records of the company if you if you want to establish that they did not have.
Kind of a leveraged buyout mentality of pulling the resource is out of the company turn over the records and let people see what the business.
Record was don't just.
Pick two or three companies.
That are the success stories and say look at these because that invites well let's look at the ones that went wrong in this case.
The company did horrible way.
But the investors did great so I think it's a little bit different than a normal.
Investor philosophy which is if we can turn the company around in a positive way we benefit this was a case where.
They cancel the pensions they drove the company into the ground but the investors.
From -- actually profited a great deal.
Let me follow up with congressman Ryan because the Obama campaign says the point of Romney economic -- Is to make money for -- to make money for their investors even if all the workers.
Get wiped out and in this particular case of the steel -- in Kansas City and the workers -- that dot for dot plant went bank dropped.
The southern tip -- workers were laid off and Bain did make millions of dollars in profits.
You know it's ironic about this Chris Mitt Romney was running the Olympics during this time he wasn't even running -- During the time period in question I think the individual I'm not mistaken who was running -- is a big Obama contributor.
But more of -- point Chris.
What -- did was they used private capital to try and help struggling businesses.
What President Obama is doing is he's gambling with taxpayer money.
And giving money to corporate contributors to -- campaign contributors like Solyndra -- losing taxpayer money.
So what we have of the Obama administration is this crony capitalism -- corporate welfare.
For President Obama thinks it's right.
That we take taxpayer dollars to give the private companies and take bets on these private companies that's wrong.
What is right is a private sector.
That you have rich tech capital he put capital in business is whether they're struggling -- not trying grow those businesses some succeed some don't.
On the net when Mitt Romney and branding they were very successfully treated thousands of jobs great success stories.
But more the point we don't think the government should be in the position.
A picking winners and losers in the economy.
Which is the result of the president's economic -- -- -- realize ultimate Israel stagnation.
Let me let mr.
goals they end of that I mean what what about that argument that -- you know what's the private sector if companies want to take a chance they take a chance.
But the government shouldn't be picking winners and -- Well that that's two different arguments the first one I actually thinks a little bit cheeky because in several of these bankruptcy cases.
You saw the investors' profit by dumping the pensions onto the government and actually getting bailouts from the government.
Oh which helped cover the that -- Profits that we're going to the investors.
On the picking of winners it is an absolutely not the Obama philosophy to try to transform the government into only picking winners.
By that I think congressman Ryan is referring to things like.
In the midst of the crisis deciding to save General Motors at and the auto industry I think -- don't have right now I earnings email us -- -- speaking for my biggest about things like Solyndra.
Well look in the case of Solyndra.
It is citing them -- that they the lead investor was an Obama supporter the second investor was -- was a McCain supporters so I mean the the argument that we should go back.
To the stimulus from three years ago and have an argument about each and every line in the stimulus rather than ask.
Starting from right now what does the economy need.
Does it need giant tax cuts for high income people and crushing of social security and Medicare or do we want a balanced plan.
That involves some new revenues with three to one ratio of spending cuts taxes I think that's the relevant question that that we.
I promise we're gonna get -- and forward looking into what their policies are for the future in a moment but.
Ryan what congressman's -- excuse me what what about this argument did that he did mr.
Oglesby raises about well as some of them.
Some of the employees ended up having their pensions picked up by the federal government.
This is -- industry that was going out of business that was going down to try to rescue -- they didn't succeed.
On this has done when Mitt Romney's lead paint was at the Olympics -- that in that time so but more the point that we're trying to make.
The Obama administration is putting themselves in the business of taking -- the taxpayer money by picking specific individual businesses and industries to prop up for favoritism.
And then to raise taxes raise regulations.
So that you at least suffocate economic growth we believe the genius of American free enterprise is the individual small business the risk taker.
And the government should remove those -- for success instead of raising barriers to success.
But then give some regulatory forbearance subsidies.
Tax businesses tax credits to specific winners that they try to pick what happens when the government.
Sees itself as a venture capitalists they end up taking lots of losers.
And we see a system of crony capitalism which is really kept crept into the system it's not working the economy -- in stagnation right now look Chris.
For every person who found a job last month which was not a lot.
Three people gave up looking for a job last month.
These are the things we should be talking about.
Who has the better vision for getting America back on track for growing the economy what system works a system of entrepreneurial capitalism and free enterprise limited government.
Or this system of high taxes high regulations and crony capitalism looks which is clearly the president's philosophy.
You know it's not that just a question of visitors also question a record because both of these men have served in office and have records and officer let's take a look at that Mitt Romney.
Was governor of Massachusetts warriors governor run out of cut congressman -- and during that time.
Messages is ranked 47.
Of the fifty states and job creation the only reason the unemployment rate went down.
Is because so many people left the work for -- more than any other state in the country except Louisiana.
After Hurricane Katrina -- that a record to be product.
And in his and Mitt Romney's last year -- in Massachusetts 40000 new jobs are created.
Personal income wages went up 16%.
Went from unemployment and jobs that went up 16% the unemployment rate went down to four point 7% at again clarify against 6% -- -- Romney's -- governor if I may sir I mean again over the four years 47 and job creation.
And the unemployment rate went down because so many people were leaving the -- Wages went up jobs went up -- So people were creating jobs -- -- -- 40000 jobs in the last year alone.
As governor of Massachusetts.
Wages went up in Massachusetts the people who actually went from unemployment into unemployment went up.
So what we saw during Mitt Romney's tenure as -- jobs created.
Economic growth what we saw in Mitt Romney's tenure as governor job creation economic growth lower unemployment see what we're seniors we have a contrasting visions.
We believe in reigniting the American idea of an opportunity society.
The president has feverishly worked replacing that vision with what we call -- government centered society vision where the government sees its job is picking winners and losers in the economy.
That doesn't work many other countries have tried this vision.
It results in economic stagnation.
Every selves in big government and big business doing in common cause which makes it harder for Oxford Norris is succeeding create jobs and business all right let -- -- is out there -- any you know set up.
Present the county -- like -- roaring economy he's proven that.
Let me bring -- I'm mr.
goals the end of this because I I think we would all agree that this is a fascinating choice in this election is -- fundamental -- philosophical difference.
President Obama wants to raise taxes on the wealthy -- wants to make targeted investments more spending on things like infrastructure.
Green as green energy.
On the other hand you've got Mitt Romney who's talking about let's get government out.
And and debt cut regulation cut spending.
And let the private sector do it at briefly that the Eagles -- why is your side right.
And the Romney side wrong.
Well number one.
They record as you indicate in the last question clearly shows that the Romney approach is not the correct approach.
The nation was in a -- Massachusetts was doing almost the worst of all the states in terms of job creation.
The reason you saw jobs growing is because government jobs or rising six times faster.
Then the national rate Massachusetts.
There is a reason why.
When governor Romney stepped down from office he had a 36%.
Approval rating by the people in his own state.
And that was during a boom.
I believe that the reason that the Obama approach is better is it is not absolutely not a government directed approach that's not correct.
The president has -- hundreds of billions of dollars of tax cuts for business for individuals for workers.
He believes that the main driver of the economy.
-- the middle class is not very high income people the Romney budget.
Is premised on the view.
That absolutely premise that George Bush budget in the two thousands and that is if we cut high income people's taxes.
By hundreds of billions of dollars.
And we go try to crush.
Social security and Medicare we try to reduce as the -- budget would.
Discretionary spending all the training all the infrastructure all the educational -- law enforcement.
We try to get that down to 5%.
Of the economy.
Which is by far the lowest of any advanced country and the lowest that it has being in almost a century in this country.
That somehow that will unleash the forces of growth.
But all I would ask you to do was look at the two thousands and explain to me.
How did it work then if that was a magic elixir or why did we not have phenomenal -- Like we had a great meeting with league all right -- I -- I -- I take your point you asked a question of give congressman Ryan the opportunity to answer.
First of all what Mitt Romney's talking lot of taxes is lower everybody's tax rates across the board.
By closing special interest loopholes in tax shelters which primarily go to the well connected in the well off.
It makes so much more sense to -- our tax rates by plugging loopholes.
So that they can decide the economy can decide how to grow so that people can keep more of their hard earned money and they can determine how to spend it instead of sending some money to Washington.
And then maybe Washington won't let you keep more of it if you do -- Washington approves of that president Obama's approach.
Mitt Romney created 40000 jobs in just his last year in office in Massachusetts that's pretty impressive.
More the point though.
That kind of much of the Mitt -- talking about is wanna prevent a debt crisis shade Medicare and Social Security from going bankrupt unfortunately the president's budget does -- of that.
Those programs are going bankrupt he puts a new board of fifteen unelected bureaucrats in charge of rationing Medicare.
And more the point the big thing hurting our economy is -- debt crisis and the president's done absolutely nothing to prevent this from happening.
Only to put more uncertainty.
On businesses uncertainly on taxes on -- and regulations.
Uncertainty on interest rates inflation in the debt crisis which is putting a huge chilling effect an economic growth and it's because of a fundamental lack of leadership.
Mitt Romney has proven in his life public and private he knows how to provide the kind of leadership prevent these things from happening -- and -- mr.
Be that the fact is that the democratic senate has not pass the budget.
In three years the Obama budget was up for a vote in the senate this week was voted down nine.
Quite frankly as congressman Ryan points out the a -- budget does nothing about Medicare and Medicaid and all -- the burgeoning economic.
And and I wanna put up allowed.
That was run this week by an independent super attack attack on Obama's record on dad let's take a look.
President Obama's agenda promised so much today pledging to cut the deficit we inherited my -- By the end of my first term in office.
Because he hasn't even come -- The fact is list -- goals -- that under this president the debt has increased by five trillion dollars or almost 50%.
It look I I'd I don't dispute that the deficit has increased.
I would say two things about that.
The first is all objective analysts forget about the campaign's.
Acknowledge that the vast majority of the increase in the deficit some 750.
Billion out of the one trillion dollar increase in the deficit.
Came about from the business cycle.
And then the policy choices that were done on a bipartisan basis so at the end of 2010 when both parties vote.
To extend the bush tax cuts.
Everyone understood that that was going to keep the deficit large we just decided collectively that the economy needed that.
I think for the Republicans.
Who set in place the policies that led to the economic crisis that exploded the deficit to now be saying well look why -- the deficit so big.
It's a bit you know they let the back half of the house on fire -- the -- the air conditioning doesn't work well the fact is that what we must do.
Is as Paul congressman Paul Ryan knows was on the Bowles Simpson commission.
We must cut the deficit over ten years by about four trillion dollars about what labeling ivory and white TV -- -- And that the girls made a fact is that the debt that commission.
Which was appointed by the president did take some serious steps in terms of entitlement reform and President Obama refused to endorse it.
Absolutely not correct they're telling their ways are you telling me good I don't want around our doors are you saying President Obama and -- and all -- can break.
The central idea of Bowles Simpson the central idea was a balanced plan that you would have three dollars and cuts for every one dollar of new revenue.
The reason that congressman Ryan and Republicans the -- congressman Ryan voted against the Bowles Simpson plan.
And Mitt Romney stood up and raised his hand when they asked him.
Would you accept a deal that had ten dollars of spending cuts for every one dollar of new revenue Mitt Romney -- and it said absolutely not.
Because they had any new revenue he would not support it.
Now the president's budget which is before the Congressional Budget Office.
And is not I might add the thing that they voted on in the senate.
The president's budget would cut four trillion dollars in a balanced way with -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Chris first evolved that this promise to cut the deficit in half over his first term that's one of the biggest promise breaks that he made.
Second of all -- Congressional Budget Office did look at the president's budget.
And it has 400 billion dollars of -- as a reduction.
Over ten years an average of forty billion dollar tobacco that is a reduction in the president's budget it absolutely that this -- -- CDO one point five trillion dollars net spending increases.
Only be outdone by one point nine trillion dollars net of tax increases for 400 billion dollars in deficit reduction doesn't even come close to fixing a problem.
The more the point Chris.
The president has had for years to deal with this for -- dollar deficits for time she decided do nothing about the debt crisis to get the debt under control.
He did disavow bowl since and the reason I didn't vote for.
Is because he didn't deal with health care entitlement reform the drivers of our dad.
But I put out an alternative plan I -- -- exactly what I would do to fix this problem and prevent a debt crisis that's what house Republicans proposed the president.
Has yet to propose a debt -- anybody and there's no problem in the senate -- senate hasn't voted for three years on anything.
That that is factually not the case a I would refer to -- it was CBO congressional budget office's website.
To look at it for themselves.
But be the fundamental choice here.
Is the president putting forward an approach that says let's address the deficit crisis in a balanced way.
And the counter coming from the Romney campaign and even in the Ryan plan itself is.
Let us have a massive cuts twice as big so that we can pay for the deficit reduction.
And multi trillion dollars of additional tax cuts that are predominately going to high income people and that does not make sense Chris.
That the congress -- -- -- -- every year under our budget congressman -- let me just ask you briefly about that because we are running out of time.
-- what President Obama is talking about is raising the tax rates on the wealth they up to the level they were during the Clinton years.
The wealthy did just fine during the Clinton years -- at a time.
When we're in such trouble in terms of our dad and obviously you use say we need a cup more stunning.
But why not some increase in taxes on the wealthy just up to a level when the economy was booming -- the nine.
Two things revenues go each and every year under our budget because we have economic growth we closed little second -- -- -- tax rates -- space set to go much higher than they weren't of the Clinton years because of all the new Obama took care taxes.
The top effective marginal tax rate goes to 44 point 8% in January.
The reason why we don't want to go back to those rates is because now we're a global competition.
Eight out of ten businesses in America.
File their taxes as individuals.
And so we're gonna have a top tax rate of -- a small businesses -- nearly 45% in January.
Look other countries are cutting their tax rates to their businesses candidate went to fifteen China's at 25 Ireland to twelve and a half percent and president Obama's content.
Was having a successful small business tax rate -- most -- jobs come from go as much as 45% more to appoint all these tax increases -- -- for spending their outing for debt reduction.
The tax increases in the Obama budget don't even pay for a fifth of his proposed deficit spending what were saying.
Is get economic growth by lowering tax rates but plugging loopholes you actually bring more revenues -- the the government.
But you gotta deal is spending -- -- -- the Obama budget the debt goes up 76%.
If we just did nothing.
The -- up 78%.
This is not leadership it's economic stagnation the president has punted we're gonna lead in what we need to do is clear these partisan obstacles get new leadership in Washington.
-- get the American idea ignited again grow this economy pay off this debt.
Don't know what we're gonna happen have to leave it there congressman -- -- and mr.
Goolsbee thank you so much I did not than we were gonna settle this tonight.
We did not but I think it was a very useful debate we thank you so much for coming in and and talking about what is the central issue in this -- thank thank.
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