Sexual sins and the Catholic Church
Johnnie Moore and Rabbi Hirschfield on the Catholic Church's differing reactions to sexual topics
- Duration 9:04
- Date Jun 8, 2012
Johnnie Moore and Rabbi Hirschfield on the Catholic Church's differing reactions to sexual topics
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I applaud you for not only being here today I have plot that 43 groups -- haven't they did not step filed a lawsuit against this man -- he doesn't mandate.
-- that's every thing.
Unmarried and no matter what their religious beliefs are their view of abortion may be.
What will they do next but religious our demographic group well they -- -- next.
I think that is -- the sound -- flung the freedom rallies today in Washington DC this is the second of freedom rally in about a couple of months I think.
Where the Catholic church and dollars are speaking out against the health care mandate that the Obama administration has put put through they have until August to comply.
There's talk -- there's going to be some Civil Disobedience if you know nothing changes that the loss since they don't when -- at the end of the Supreme Court dozens ranked him the health care.
Question that -- -- bring in -- again on this because the idea that victory just as passionate about.
So the but the sex abuse crisis that they as they are about this.
The problem is is that.
What they're fighting for affects everybody in terms of how.
Businesses operate how the church operates in -- -- their hospitals in their schools in their ministries in all of the areas where they.
Have their mission say.
You know whereas I think they see this sort of sexual sins of sort of a -- is a private matter that should be handled and handled well -- -- is do you see a difference Johnny at all.
-- -- for sure did and and you know I also think the big difference between the two uses the Catholic church on the defensive vs the temperatures on the offense and and what we're seeing in the religious liberty conversations taking place now is what's what has made for decades of the evangelical church in the Catholic Church.
Great allies and kind of the culture wars that are taking place but when it's also hadn't done the church -- a particular role and that's to be the church to people and you know the Catholic Church has had a bad fairly precipitous decline in attendance -- 2008 alone 400000 people left the cat Catholic church of the 1960s.
For every four before have left for every one that's been converted into the church and so.
Now this is good because this kind of speak in the language of the people but yet don't always go back to the place people coming -- the church for particular thing.
They come into the church to meet a particular need and it seems like.
Did we -- we're making progress on one but not on the other product I actually this rally is about the worst possible response this situation really for the very reasons that.
It actually converts it's exactly backwards if these issues.
Our sexual issues are private issues.
The private and personal damage is far greater it's not theoretical and -- are actually people were hurt.
So it should have been -- but the rallies should have been for a soul searching in the church to correct this problem.
And then use the legal system to secure the religious liberty which this I believe it's completely ham fisted and candidate is trying to force -- -- -- -- they couldn't do that they can't and it.
They don't know how how do you -- to stay at a rally you know what will -- duty next data is exactly -- that it becomes one more battle in an ongoing culture war.
And the idea that more energy would be spent on those culture -- been on fixing a system that has abused children consistently and -- -- -- -- that's that's our business they are doing things of the fact of matter that you know that you can say that sleeping on the -- like.
They are dressing and made an -- and that's why I've been that's I understand is that because it's not in the news the only thing that gets in the news.
Is that priest sex abuse -- what's happening in Philadelphia.
Not the fact that you know at the meeting next week of the US EC BB every week period to -- to address the last ten years what they've been doing to help victims to help.
-- to weed out the priest with the the Pope is -- -- -- you're not saying that alongside that story.
There's two issues would be the first is if you're asked me do what I believe there is a bias against the church and -- -- -- who loves to tell the stories.
The worst stories of those they don't like and does that happen to the church and a regular basis -- yes and it happens all kinds of religious folk in the popular media all the time.
So would be very very careful.
But actually what the church needs to do is not have -- Retrospective -- what are we -- over the last ten years.
When it comes down to this issue force contraception.
They will told the story we mobilized -- ten hours and in ten days so the fact the conference of bishops will be able to say what what do we -- the last ten years.
Already tells you there wasn't the kind of urgency that needed to be -- to -- -- -- this kind of yes hostility toward people of faith that loves to tell the bad stories because secular folk love to confirm their secular Larry -- -- you see.
Look how Bad Religion is I had I was on all the time but that's separate from.
What has -- the kind of absence of emotional response would have been largely defensive posturing by the church.
And the issues of molestation.
As opposed to a heavy duty proactive respond well.
I'm -- the urgency though has to do with the timeline I think that's where the urgency you're seeing right now which we hadn't seen before because it was a -- -- because they've got until August.
Johnny I want to win as well.
The and I don't think they're mutually exclusive I mean actually I prefer the Catholics not call an armistice and the culture wars I mean this this is actually.
There's the rub between the two and in most of the baggage of what we're dealing -- now a sexual abuse its issues place in the ninety's.
It is that this that this is that what makes this situation so complicated I mean they're doing a lot now.
We've talked about the media is taking place there was that you know that there have been several meetings now that temperatures just poured billions of dollars into this.
But in the same token they're faced with looking towards the the future.
While also repairing the damage of the past and that's what makes it complicated and I think they've got to make -- a war on both fronts but they got it they get a handle one -- a different way than the other and it's going to be wisely dot.
It is a battle of the media presence because one of the things that you don't watch news all day long or if you just to a casual kind of the viewing of news if you watch certain news organizations -- read papers when you see a trial for priest sex abuse you assume that this man has come on -- for the abuse that he committed.
That's what -- -- until you read the story and figure out but he was accused of just not.
Being more forceful in saying no we gotta do something about these 35 priest that I giving a list of now that the cardinal you know -- -- it and the cardinal is no longer with us so there's nobody to check it out.
It and then you -- -- -- -- -- news stories about the the Vatican scandal about the leaks about the Butler that that's been arrested so immediately these stories are too.
Translate to create another sort of impression of the Vatican or the day the Catholic Church as they see they're not so great they were.
The fighting for religious liberty and -- they can't they can't clean up their own mess I mean this I think is the issue -- I mean rabbi.
I do think there's something that about that you're that you're definitely right the idea that we loved it tells I said the worst version of the people we don't like this self -- Is a really dangerous -- the truth is if anything.
What went out of the Vatican with this Butler.
Is actually a call for anyone on a relationship -- about betrayal what's actually not about the shirts and says -- this is about the church it's not.
It's anyone we went into our lives was access to information about us.
What really are the obligations when that trust is violated if anything.
Already before the trials even begun people in the church are asking what is the place of mercy married to justice.
How often does that go -- secular system so really this is one of those things the church could -- is of real positive it seems to me.
Being willing to say no you too bad you do wrong.
There is -- justice system and -- -- prosecuted but part of that system is also asking where is mercy central.
Where we can actually look beyond the bad act and asked how do you treat the person who did it with real dignity including this past Sunday.
Taking the Butler allowing him to go to mass no handcuffs dressed -- -- So there's actually a really powerful story here about the marriage of justice and mercy that we don't see very often and it's something the church can teach all of -- Spent because they get the go ahead Johnny.
Yeah but but on the same token if you're gonna have a justice system you ought to have a jail you know that's what I think it's ironic about -- felt -- I had a set aside from the fact it's just strange I mean the Butler did it it's like -- Dan Brown novel I mean this is just -- But if you're gonna if you're gonna be tough on something you've got to have repercussions and I think this is emblematic of the whole big picture I mean there's too much drama -- the Catholic Church.
-- -- -- to get back to of the Catholic Church has done well through the centuries.
And China to bring up some of that baggage and if you're gonna be tough you gotta be tough whether it's on a priest that's it added there's an allegation against it whether to Butler who did something.
Despicable if you're gonna have to justice he had exercised just.
Allegedly did something despicable and -- -- yeah.
And sorry -- I'm calling the story here.
Yeah we Anderson that we will debate right now or any about 10011.
Last story we're gonna we're gonna talk about all the that was -- debate right evidence.