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-- clear that the economy is not going on and that's the reason I at a press conference.
He says but it more -- more -- More teachers.
Did he not get the message it was scouts and the American people that this -- And and it.
And bear with a couple of dueling stumbles are the contenders.
For the presidency.
President Obama talking about a statement he.
Statement he made earlier in the day Friday saying that the private sector was doing fine and Mitt Romney saying that we don't need as many firemen policemen and teachers this is power play I and Chris start well -- Happy Monday to -- Internet it is great to have you back with us and President Obama stumbled on Friday talking about the private economy he came out later in the day instead that he knows he -- -- bad that's why he had a press conference that was kind of stumbling to -- -- to take advantage of it.
That those same issues in his call for more government cuts and more austerity.
And reducing spending back before stimulus levels that they are now but -- made the big no no for Republicans and mentioned.
Police officers are.
-- changing the election does this have legs where would go you know who knows Bret -- He's the anchor special report with Bret -- conveniently enough and welcome back to the big telecast good to be here okay so.
Prior to this point.
The president had been talking about.
For word or backward.
You know a new way for America or more of the same bush failed bush policies.
You've been talking about that but on Friday all of a sudden.
Everything sort of came into very clear relief as the president and Ronnie came forward with absolutely different points of view on this subject the president.
Going again and it should be no surprise that we're going to get a stimulus to keep government payrolls up that stimulus levels to 2009 models and Romney saying time to cut.
Yes and I think that's a battle we're going to happen and what was so interesting is that.
That statement that the private sector is doing just fine you could see how much it affected the entire dynamic.
How fast the Romney campaign and surrogates got out there.
And how fast -- the Obama White House had to deal with it and -- right -- clarifying statement which actually didn't help clarify.
In fact that's why did the -- the press conference because the economy -- of that imagine as you wrote it George W.
Bush it's good that.
I think the articles would still be all blowing from the New York Times in the Washington Post as it is.
I think it's one of those things like the fundamentals of the economy are strong.
From John McCain that that will have resonance beyond this this week.
-- Mitt Romney and his response to say -- it's what he said about firefighters and teachers.
Kind of blunted.
Any the gaffe by President Obama.
And it was almost like you know he he's the most shouldn't have come out perhaps hasn't said anything according to the the folks who are jumping all over.
And the rule of -- this is what Republicans do when your interview with Mitch Daniels.
And all the guys were really good at talking about this issue.
About dealing with public sector employees I mean where we've got like fifth sixteen million government employees in America.
And while taxpayers may have a lot of beef about lot of them.
Cops and firefighters.
Are always yeah -- and well that teach you this is little a little bit gets a little -- -- here.
Cops and firefighters are -- are very bogey and four -- do you think this is a problem of lacking.
Fluency in conservative -- Possibly you know I mean it's what.
Mitch Daniels and we talk about him a lot but he did he talks about it pretty well you know and he was off FOX News Sunday this weekend.
And talking about that you know public sector unions in the future of those unions and the fact that the government is sitting on both sides of the table.
And that people are saying listen maybe it's time to stop that but he speaks -- From eight point of view that the middle class seems to.
They did it well and it also helps their case -- Republicans case now that it in the olden days the government employees have a lot of protections but they didn't make that much money.
Now government wages have gone up faster while practically -- have gone down as Steven Rattner said on MMS NBC this morning.
The private sector wages are way off and they have collapsed.
Well government employee wages have continue to look at Wisconsin I mean the public sector salaries.
And benefits vs private sector.
I mean significant even after Walker's changes they're still 22% above private sector jobs in Wisconsin.
They were 28% so they -- -- 6% but still we're talking 20% more than private sector.
You know who talks about the best Mitch Daniels Chris Christie.
Those -- two governors who really articulate that message very well and and perhaps Mitt Romney you know to Mitch Daniel's point.
Could beef up one on that type of talk.
Well and certainly -- look I'm on this question style cancer everything walker and we routed Wisconsin together.
And walker had polished up his game pretty significantly.
Governor Scott -- -- -- -- recall on Tuesday.
It -- of his game pretty significantly when he delivered his speech on Tuesday by the time he got into the meat of it.
He was outlining this -- threatened in a friendly not hostile way we started the process though he was a little bit you know swashbuckling.
And as Daniels like we again come back to Daniels as he pointed -- both you and yesterday Chris Wallace.
Is the secret is don't frighten people.
Ahead of this don't be don't be the war drums just let it happen and in Daniel's case almost nobody noticed years went by and the only people who were upset about where small -- -- -- and that was eight years ago -- and you know he makes the argument that since that time that.
Of public government in Indiana has increased dramatically their ability to deliver for taxpayers and he's turned it around -- way.
Don't government delivering for people -- DMV is smoother the everything is attacking deserve better -- everything yeah so.
I do think that this battle.
Will be a battle that takes as well and -- And let the good and that's that's the question is can.
The president pretty clearly we say it's a gaffe but in Washington is -- Kinsley gaffe Michael Kinsley is famous look Houston which is that -- -- in Washington.
Is -- a politician accidentally says what he thinks.
And the president doesn't has not been shy about his belief that public sector stimulus is the -- -- that the way to get out of this stagnation is to juice the public sector -- some more now that that's coming into relief.
Polls would seem to indicate this is not a good place for the.
President to stand.
Don't think so I mean it's going to be a herculean effort to.
Convince the public that another round of stimulus in this atmosphere when you're looking at Europe when you're looking at what happened.
Over the you know across the pond.
-- -- Spain and Greece and others.
And looking at fifteen trillion dollars debt.
You know it does this little Toby yeah there what are you gonna ask your kids -- your best your -- -- this -- -- tough rhetorical message today a solid answer -- -- cups.
I want to turn to this just quickly news today.
The house oversight committee Darrell ice.
And and hit and then the outsiders over there are.
Going to bring forward next week.
A motion to hold attorney general Eric Holder -- in contempt of congress.
This means that you're looking probably -- within a month a vote in the full.
House and whether or not to hold him in contempt.
This is something that many Republicans in leadership had tried to avoid because they thought that it would be a loser for them that they thought.
Triggering a constitutional crisis.
In the middle of an election year was maybe not a good idea how's -- gonna play.
Why don't think it plays well the administration and they and -- attorney general up on Capitol Hill last week didn't.
Do the administration's -- so it almost.
It compound things and I think that's what led to this.
You -- this investigation in this effort on contempt to the investigation into the security leaks.
And how serious that is -- for this administration.
The fact that holder has named to prosecutors but there's still a call for a special prosecutor independent prosecutor.
These things so at least they start small and then they become huge and becomes this casket and I think you're looking at a lot of weeks of -- This and the other thing of course that they're now -- some Republicans are increasingly.
Grouchy about the fact that holder is working very hard to.
Quash voter ID laws.
In a number of states including.
Some that happen to be a little swing cash flow with false and not allowing people -- voter rolls of people that they say they're illegal immigrants sort.
And you're right that the Republican that the outrage could overcome the -- The tentativeness on -- -- I mean attorneys general have on -- something tells me in Florida she will be leading a charge.
How about voter ID and -- the rules of dead people.
And because she.
You know can do it.
The sound you hear our pitchforks being taken out.
-- shed Brett -- we thank you very much for making time for us today you as a as a generous colleague okay Internet.
When -- take a quick break but when we come back we will be joined by a Republican and a Democrat we call that a panel.
Will tell us about this public sector vs private sector jobs situation the power of unions.
And this question and I think you'll probably have an answer -- this should Mitt Romney go big and bold.
Or should he try to just be not Barack Obama what's the best strategy for and if he wants to win in the fall tell me -- -- -- -- -- -- -- on -- and we'll talk about what you have to -- to -- be -- -- -- you should stick around.
Hope that he goes big Eagles pulled I think he's got the capacity that I don't think we win if it's just about.
A referendum on Barack Obama I think.
It's got to be more.
That guy -- was Scott Walker still.
The governor of Wisconsin after last week's recall election.
And this is power play and what Governor Walker is saying there is -- thing that a lot of Republicans are saying.
Which is that it's not enough for Mitt Romney not to be Barack Obama -- he wants to win this election he has to articulate his own plan Paul Ryan and other.
Idea guys inside the Republican Party are all are all holding this and they're -- -- a little pressure on their nominee.
To do that so let's talk about that.
And fortunately we have with us trade -- back with us he is Republican he is a senior vice president of box global.
He's -- the show we welcome back.
And Tony Welch he's the former press secretary of the Democratic National Committee one of your very favorite -- and so gentlemen welcome.
Thank you Chris experts are we'll see if it's fun I -- it's going to be fine.
The question is so for Romney he's trying to find there's a sweet spot out there.
But as we discussed in the first segment when he came out to try to -- Scott Walker worked on Friday and go toe to toe with the president after the president had made sort of it.
It double barreled gaffe on jobs in the economy.
After doing that Romney tried to capitalize on it -- him.
Flexing his conservative -- few days and he stepped -- over the do do talking about firefighters and police officers and everybody got.
Anxious as these are the risks.
And let's start with you -- is it's the red team.
What's the answer for Romney.
Well first of all -- there's a saying in politics and if you're opponent is shooting himself in the foot you don't want to be gone -- a lot of times that can make you I've heard it offered more colorfully that yes.
You know and so therefore it can make you you know approaching conservatively.
And wait to throw stuff out there com.
Listen there's no question that this president is doing everything he can and I think this party's doing that Democrat party's doing everything -- can.
To make it is easy on running the Republicans as possible but I do agree with Scott Walker and the others that that is not going to be enough I think the voters are different place right now.
I think they're fed up with the two party system and they're gonna want ideas and I think.
Romney has an opportunity.
Also because he has still has to kind of get his base revved up.
Two strokes throw -- -- And exploit you guys love you would love nothing more than I've Romney to come out and and he's already own the Ryan budget plan right he does have -- he does have some pretty strong policy point -- -- -- strong in terms of but do you think they're good or bad but there and their loud.
For policy points that he that he has embraced.
So for him.
You guys would love it if he was out there banging the drum on this -- well.
-- I think -- I think there's two -- that you're saying yes if he responsive to the electorate and says here's what I'm going to do very reasonable question by the way mcdaniels looks at the same thing on Sunday it's I -- just being in Cuba for a bit -- -- -- attack and that the everything the President Obama puts forth he will be -- but as well that's the name of the game I think that -- does a wonderful job running for president.
In fact Chris he's that he's been doing that longer than he was actually governor of Massachusetts that's an accurate statement -- I tried to make them totally yeah.
And longer than Barack Obama was in the senate or -- an elected official definition that is that is also accurate but lots of actors and you're floating around here in studio thrilled but I think but it but I think the point that -- and it was great which is.
The behavior that he's reflects -- in and he's done it in almost every time -- Obama makes the statement.
There's that counts and that's when it would've been just a little bit more to hold off a bit because what he did instead was that.
As as a -- the president wants more jobs for teachers and firefighters and police officers.
And everybody in America is going.
And your point would be huge Q losing -- -- Down sound from the price is right right.
-- right now.
This for Romney every says you need to have an idea but the reason that you don't.
The politicians generally and Barack Obama prove this very well 2008 -- you can keep it.
The floppy or you can get more uniforms are flying through the frame the better it is for you the more you have to drill down you're going to upset people and when you have you know.
People on in the Republican Party you have this Rick Santorum over here saying you know you need to be bold -- what he means -- -- is different than.
What the fancy -- is in Georgetown.
There I'm sure there -- people in Georgetown.
But what this I'm sure -- very good people in Georgetown and I know some but the the truth is that for those folks they have a very different idea about what -- us it.
But you know listen it.
Romney has an opportunity and should.
To just keep it on the economy keep talking about the economy.
You know listen he still has work to do to keep that base fired up coming out of a primary as he did so -- -- you know I think.
The best advice and we can give them is.
Do not give too much attention to your opponent the referendum on Obama is there it exists -- there will be.
They'll be plenty of ads on that front.
He did it get out there and -- and get get out there and speak about what he believes -- and and and that should begin.
That's a very skeptical based on making I don't know if you saw has got to go I don't know if you -- got -- -- -- -- OK okay sorry about that and and what they -- -- -- was that Obama that Romney shouldn't let the super -- essentially.
And take it out if it's not just -- was seriously the Internet television and just take a map the the deal is.
The super pacs are going to be dropping doing these ten -- a ton bombs.
On -- -- and every swing state they're doing it now for super negative is that a good strategy if you Romney would you just say.
All Latin American crossroads does send in the howitzers I'm just gonna talk about means that make sense but I.
I think you that they're just going to happen where the other try to figure out what a happy medium is not coming up time to do that -- -- we're not at the convention Jack -- having the time to do that.
I think it's fine to make the contrast message the president isn't going to take being negative part of his stump speech away -- to point out.
Here's here's where they would go wrong there's with a -- with -- where they were turned around but it's interesting what happened Friday.
President was pointing out.
What's wrong the economies -- one of these throw becoming primarily with -- -- a -- we're seeing that the reduction in the in the public sector by the private sector making these days four million jobs or four plus two million jobs created over the past weeks -- months great stuff break.
If you if if you're one to say that.
That unemployment number is too high.
Then you shouldn't be saying we ought to have kept those public.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Had to be about jobs is gonna be about the future look there is a stark difference between.
President Obama Mitt Romney Mitt Romney says he wants fewer teachers that -- larger classrooms he says he wants fewer firefighters.
That means less safety I mean.
Rich people probably still a good protection working class people won't he wants fewer police officers that means we're in danger there's a difference.
He wants to create an economy he was the focus on manufacturing.
Comes research and development with research and development the United States maintains its -- without it we lose -- talk.
That was Richard Trumka is president the AFL CIO.
America's largest labor union.
He was on face the nation on CBS.
We started that there is basically articulating.
Big labor's argument against one Willard M Romney.
And those things.
But unfortunately for Democrats this year labor unions are in a slightly different position when it comes to coming in with the cavalry.
And helping out with big spends in big ads -- big stuff.
This is power play welcome back a welcome back toward distinguished panel -- hardened red team Tony Welch blue team.
Good men both.
And please welcome now the pride of Tallahassee.
Our friend -- -- -- -- and how we doing today.
I'm -- get in and in green that I'm just neutral on sort of like a Switzerland the whole thing it sends.
You're peaceful your -- peaceful one at home for the entire Internet right now -- and we appreciate that.
Now you are reporting today for the regular television.
-- the influence of unions their role and how these situations with the public sector unions.
Are shaping things -- tells -- about that.
-- interesting thing is if you look at Meserve in numbers crunched by the US Bureau of Labor Statistics.
There -- new -- If you look at when they started keeping track of union membership back in 1983 about 20% a little over 20%.
Of the workforce here in the US was unionized we'll fast -- to 2011 -- last year of course they have data for and we're talking at just under 12%.
And both public and private sector unions have been in that losing membership in recent years.
Last year alone 207.
3000 public sector employees.
-- -- there unions now that may be partially because there were layoffs and a lot of people didn't get laid off.
But again the number is trending downward for unions and doesn't the fact is that.
They had a big fight on their hands in Wisconsin and date many of them we'll tell you they were outspent there they were outgunned that there -- -- told and that's -- Governor Walker was victories and maintained his seat.
On but you know you you've had Richard -- there at the beginning of the this segment he went on to say actually that.
They'll -- -- Wisconsin is a good thing for unions and that they are more energized for every -- the very next day after the bill you know the win by Governor Walker.
They were out there organizing and getting ready for the fall and they say it's got them more fired up and energized for the fall than they would've been otherwise.
I suspect that the drugs at a Tallahassee would say the -- and stuff that people say.
-- it's -- -- be -- I'm very much for for being with us today you -- your green peacefulness.
Can you please enjoy it rescued.
OK and by the way you're telling me that did you are you from talent and I sent that thirteen years there he spent thirteen years Oakley you've seen the statute you Shannon that they have -- -- you know under the mom you know all of that candidates -- she's just so wonderful anyway enough about Canon's wonderful to us.
So the question is.
The Wall Street Journal reported last week first time.
-- -- which is the largest.
Government workers it's actually the second largest union in the whole country.
Largest news Service Employees International Union but -- -- and -- of -- lot of low wage workers restaurant -- -- that they don't generate the kind of views that you get from somebody who is like eight.
You know high high ranking clerk -- somebody the government so we saw that for the first time those numbers the numbers pat -- -- Dropped and now this is the biggest union inside vehicles it's a big deal and it dropped faster than the overall loss of government jobs government job loss was down 1%.
This was down four point 3%.
Is is this the start of a trend or is this a -- Well it's I think there's something to -- noted there percentages aren't -- of this one is larger than you can more than make up for the whole and that.
All of the people who left or union members if that -- none of this is just inside actually a -- -- -- that's what any good but but.
But OK guys keep to your point he's he's saying that of that 1% that I could have been heavier concentration of the largest ever exactly according universe but I think I think it looked.
One of the things of that that Wisconsin wasn't what's good news for for unions and the reason within and nor is it for for Democrats it was a loss and and in the can be taken is that but it also doesn't happen.
Have to be.
-- interviewed him sit arthritis and also as a referendum on unions it was a referendum on a person her record and not just experience so I I think that's clear but.
When things -- this -- -- unions and in what this means overalls and her -- on the overall today because unions.
Have done a better job of the increasingly to support workers they have higher wages the non unionized members and that's just the -- -- -- that's one of one of those things and when they have higher wages they have better ability to spend places trash filled I think -- I was like that's security that they.
Well first I wanna say that I'm Tony Welch is easily the most reasonable defender of unions I think I've ever talked to him there's always kind of how -- -- -- -- night.
I thought well I've -- -- you can write down your data back.
I listen of the thirteen states that show budget deficits of higher than seventeen and a half percent of revenue.
Nine of the top tier states.
Of a nine of those structures states are the highest in public unionized position so I think that there is no coincidence there there's a correlation talking Arab states like California and New York yeah turtle and and you don't listen I think that.
I would be I would not be surprised to see the Obama administration distanced themselves a little bit between now and the election.
Clear that there is a concern that these social socialist agenda of unions that I think a lot of people feel is there.
Is also something that people are connecting to this current administration and.
Almost -- please respond to the big leap over the -- that had -- at reasonable industry socialism.
Do we have a different definition of what socialism is but the but the company's that was that the union members who work with GM to make that a productive company.
They're not social secure about workers -- other really good job.
Why we should of course point out that the socialist is he's lower case -- socialist.
Is something that in Europe for example is not considered.
For Jordan exactly in the way it is here from here in the united states of people have kind of cool thing about that hole at the password its people a little riled up the biggest social -- these people -- so these rather these people are hikers is what they decide I think we're the biggest medical halo all right gentlemen we thank you very much for making a whole lot today pleasure as always and you.
Thank you very much -- for making time for us on this Monday we know -- got a week off to a good start we love having you with us it's Monday is of course.
Sadness no word from Charles today but in recompense.
You can look forward to on the hunt with Jonathan Hunt starting.
Right after this have a great day and we'll see back here tomorrow.
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