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Laura Carroll, author of ‘The Baby Matrix,’ tells Alan why it’s time for our society to re-think the belief that we should all have children.
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Welcome -- Carol very -- -- up for the baby matrix like freeing our mind from outmoded thinking about parenthood and reproduction we'll create a better world.
Laura thank you with one on tonight appreciate it very much.
What are they the impetus for you to write this book.
Well I'm I'm all of the author Stanley did too and think and I wanted to dig a little deeper into -- -- find it.
So difficult except those of us who don't have chosen by -- and I also want to figure out.
Why there's so many -- stereotypes about people may actually.
Let me down a path to find out about it that it -- called pro name with them and that's really accurately to a much larger picture to two assumption and belief that we all have whether we have children.
Or not.
It is your believe given prone realism that having kids.
It individually and collectively.
Affects us in a negative manner correct negatively.
Well I think her name again is really is set of beliefs and some of those believed.
May have been in served up at one time in the past generations ago.
And now we're in that kind of society where I think it's time to question their usefulness to whether they're serving today and -- some of the belief that a pro and it was believed.
Started off -- net and they still are today.
-- I don't think it's wrong at all I think it's great for some people all I'll but I do think that and could be decided we really need to take a look.
At the pro would be lifted function that we believe around parenthood and reproduction and really take a hard look if he can really ask -- -- true or not and where is it really used -- for me.
We have this kind of automatic.
Thing and ours when we grow up and get married and then next -- was supposed to have if we we're supposed to do that and we don't do that I'm one of those people who do not have -- -- now -- All -- so and by choice -- and there's always a defensiveness about why argue what's the matter with you and -- society expects -- To do that.
Can do well we're back at Coney Island -- I knew that the eighty need to like call that that death -- some chanting where that's right talk about.
This idea that code name is in the pelvis that well but to take its normal path to adulthood -- -- that have to be part of that and we believe that so strongly.
That when people don't do that we think that there's something wrong with them when really it's stripped of the week it's just something we've -- to believe over many generations you did you.
Really we're not destined to have children.
You also believe we have a social responsibility not to have too many kids right.
I believe that's unique to that I talk about that is the right to reproduce the assumption in my book the end.
It's where we are -- exciting I think it's very important to ask.
Why is it's so important for us they have biological.
Children.
If you look at pro -- -- lift the value that we've been dead for many generations that biology is -- -- And feed the fertility business except -- when really there are so many children who are already here that need homes.
Right so what what's what's to -- Well there are experts all over the place what -- Clinton you know what do you think that that's what European.
-- That if you have one biological child that if you want more and that's the time to look at -- top.
So you shouldn't have more than one.
What I think that more people entertained that notion I think that it would be best part.
Our society and then the children who are who are already here on the planet.
And do you think the government.
Should limit the number kids of relic and a.
I don't think ever in art that I needed government will ever.
And that when -- ask you -- ever -- do you think they shift.
I don't think that they should I do think that the government could do we could do a better job of asking our government to do is to prepare.
People for a parent has much earlier in life he team education in schools that.
Really hit the reality appearance but hey it's -- -- it's not something everybody has to be -- so early in life.
Have children really your teens say really know what's involved what they would be getting into really start thinking about it AM and -- -- We should also have some kind of parenthood qualifications.
Verification of -- -- that.
Parents really have to think heart and about whether they're ready.
And whether it's really like -- and before they go in.
Where you say certification are you suggesting that the government say.
You can be a parent or you can't be a -- I think it would be -- -- proposing the -- -- -- -- be idea.
That there that aid program that people will be required to take.
Before they beat date before they have children in if they don't.
That there will be -- Leno punitive measures that would result is an example that maybe that they would still.
Be able to get health care -- but -- that their health cork health care options might be a bit.
More limited government would punish people who can't get it for people to really be -- -- -- and that would be the purpose that it.
So you would favor a public policy where the government in fact punishes people.
Who they deem -- prepared to be parents.
I'm not seen it I would I would be Ford -- Phoenix punishing people -- -- more advocated program that provides in and kids.
For people to be as prepared as.
-- you -- -- but you also said that maybe.
They wouldn't have certain health care are bill -- -- or certain certain things might be taken away from people who were deemed unsuitable to be parents.
Right that would create the incentive for them to actually take that take -- program -- that said that they would see an understandable that they really what they really need to know before they embark on what we arguably the biggest job.
That's never gonna happen in our society because she know that they'll be great resistance of the government.
Being that the terminator.
As to who who can -- can't be apparent and then punishing families who decide to become parents in spite.
Of that decision and it probably never gonna happen in the American.
-- proposing here is that this -- -- and to our federal government provide education and and that that education and be required.
So I'm not saying that the public would committed punish people for having parents but it they would there would be -- That if you did not.
Take this kind of education -- prepare yourself -- the main idea being that we really want parents to be more prepared we want them.
Could be ready and emotionally financially we want that we want -- unfit parent you know we want.
That when you see so unlike the the mom who is now stripping for example in orders supporter.
Many many kids that's kind of sickness isn't -- mean that to have that many can and I've our caller that I think it's -- Well I I am hearing about her in life -- Wanted to have that many children and.
And couldn't support them and and -- I was in and the means of taking care of them.
And is now out pole dancing in order to do -- Well and she also was one issue she had in vitro fertilization and -- -- -- -- -- thinks that ends up where you can end up you know you may be feeling a -- once you can end up being pregnant with three year for those -- -- -- -- More than what she really bargain for which -- Pack -- that Tony listen to you about it but he teenage.
That biology at best in the link that women will go you can have their own biological children and the negative.
I went -- The idea -- that to really shift our thinking.
From.
Promoting and favoring in our society those who give birth and have -- two kids to honoring.
As much if not more of those who in fact choose to be -- is that part of what you're preaching.
Actually no I'm actually saying that that we need to take a harder look at that a police called pro Natal is -- and those beliefs that do it felt the role of parenthood.
And ask hard questions on whether those beliefs really.
True today where that they are courtroom and whether it's best for us to continue to believe that -- to adopt an alternative -- it's set with service.
What I referred to is -- your own -- just that we need to shift from a mindset.
That and -- -- the birth of another child to one that holds couples who choose to adopt or have one or no biological children in the highest regard.
Right that's -- just.
I did and that -- that the point that with every biological child that comes on to the planet.
It does create an environmental impact and so those that have no no biological children of their own or choose to do take on these services adoption.
And take a child authority here I think she.
Do you think should be be rewarded more than been people who have many many biological children of their own.
-- and the fact let's get -- this issue the environment and resources because we are using up resources.
And keep people have a lot of kids are -- up the plethora -- -- And there and I you know leaving leaving potentially a world for their children that that is won't be the best for them so.
We are where more and more people are consuming resurfaced after the years can make -- and we got carbon emissions that come with average pilot with child that -- on the planet.
That more parents really at -- think about that on what kind of world that can be leaving their children -- -- party here.
You know there are people on the other side like for example there's a paper route.
-- defense of parenthood children are associated.
With more -- in misery and -- -- -- older couples with kids are happy here.
Then those who don't -- them you've probably seen some of these.
CNET research and where -- I feel it needs to be dissected better is to make -- differentiate between.
Couple that are -- -- immediately wanted to have children and -- they got older and they didn't happen and they had some regret or negative feelings about that.
And the people who actually chose not to have children were all sometimes called child free you hear -- out there yeah big difference between those two groups in UN parent child freaking out.
I'm Bernard Kerik as a woman and you have the maternal instinct the biological clock ticking does that ever -- and had never having.
Had those particular hormones and never experienced it but I know women -- who felt that way and really biologically felt the need to reproduce.
Well blank -- -- and that is pro name is believed Willie.
I think drives.
Did did this.
Thinking that we will we have this biological -- this long that comes over at.
When really.
There's no evidence is against it there's no perjury no chemical that nothing had happened biologically -- a lot of psychology expert who think that what's happening is more -- -- cannot.
Like a lot.
Optical phenomenon based on -- So until social and cultural influences it's not biological and -- that was in the -- think shall we are feeling and.
Do you think women have any women -- you don't think but most women feel biological urge to have children.
I think that they had the urge that they feel could be -- is more driven by our strong cultural and social influences.
-- That is needed because there is no real evidence that suggested it's biology at all if it keeps it did.
Accompanied with weekend that those beliefs are so strong it becomes such strong -- -- every generation's.
We think it's reality we think it's true when really they're really -- better -- for choosing to believe.
Let me get some calls in here for -- Carroll author of the matrix.
Todd in.
The baby -- present as well all right let's talk -- in -- clarify that Wesley chapel Florida -- go ahead.
Hi -- program may.
I want to begin I have directed book there and I will because I've -- this chill out -- -- But the primary.
Everything it's so far -- away day here -- your point.
And it is though not the natural -- -- think -- actors.
It's really.
Disturbing.
Tammy.
-- honestly believe.
It's not a natural.
Part of being in a lot going to be human don't want their children.
I think it is it's natural and it and it's true for a lot of people who want to have children and to raise them.
But I think the truth is it's not true for every one now prone neighborhood and wood -- that it is true for every way it is an apple for every one.
And -- big thing for those that you don't feel that this is something somehow wrong with us when the truth is.
It's true for some people and but it's not true for -- one.
All right I'm just glad you -- and you don't know I.
I -- what more do you know I think that there is better situation this should have children -- The responsibility of every children.
I couldn't agree with that and I know about -- and the -- matrix I think we have a real need for that.
Thank you -- decides to me it's very upsetting that so many people it's so easy to reproduce for some people so difficult for others and yet there's no.
Good natured isn't working situated those who would be the best parents.
And have the means to be them those parents are necessarily the ones -- easy time reproduce.
I think there's a lot we can do to make sure that that -- people who want to become parents and -- become parents.
Are as prepared as possible rather than just -- by the assumption that.
He -- the baby comes along the parents will figure it out and many do but let's face it we've seen in every -- examples of people who haven't figured out and there are unfit parents than if we spend -- invest more money.
In having.
Fewer unfit parent and more parents and prepared parents I think -- -- -- probably better off and certainly our children.
Either on let's go to Robert in Plantation, Florida hi Robert.
My wife and I are both child that there were very happy the way it is -- -- in our forties but my -- I do receive a lot of comments and judgment from people who are apparently it.
Around -- and I was wondering your studies unity.
-- -- showing -- because of the good religion perfectly Catholic and political like you have to be fruitful and go forth and be fruitful and deliberately -- goal to have more children as bodies as your studies show you that turned.
I think religion and is as strong support to -- to influence people to have children as many as.
-- in particular.
And.
Well I'm married to a Catholic woman we did -- -- and you know they they urge you the they they tell you to go and I'm viewers for my -- -- and they tell you they want you to reproduce -- more.
Children of the world that's what they.
And but the church did generation ago and it didn't go as part of why did he used to you know -- gain power and gains.
Mormon men from the more followers and -- people in the congregation or church and more power.
And you're not supposed to tell the priest that you don't wanna have kids that you know -- they will not some.
They will not approve the -- -- necessarily no -- -- that.
Well I think that would necessarily happen land they till the -- that they really really one without.
Which -- do and if that he'd probably be the Smart choice for many -- -- looking at one point economy briefly is that.
A lot of -- I talked to that way with it whether they have a child they had their pairing or they don't have children not quite to a court choice.
Would that be fruitful and multiply you know and in a lot of Christians really agree with theologian said.
That really don't take literally minutes and they and a day you know that your duty to god it's more that -- -- he wouldn't believe that that language.
And in the book again is I believe is it's more that.
Can be fruitful in the eyes of blessing from god so yeah.
A lot of different interpretations.
On on that particular point it's in those I would -- other Christians to get more educated on other ways of looking at it.
Look at my wife and I like where like -- -- or what's wrong with you -- but I don't want -- we didn't make it needed to get you know I think that that's the primary example of what I'm talking about with colonialism -- the beliefs are intransigence.
-- state can't see past.
What they think is and what's truly -- your children.
Thank you very much -- eventually.
You know the world the -- it's not going to be here forever.
I hope we don't.
Contribute to which destruction.
But the more people we have here in the war crowd of the planet is it seems the more likely it is we'll be fighting over resources water food and territory.
And hasten our demise.
I couldn't agree with you more and it's one reason why in the dating agent -- talk a lot about why.
Why it's important that we start to.
Instead of thinking.
That we can have as many cases whenever we want -- and however we want.
We need to -- there putting ourselves back in the media are self interest.
Second and look it did the greater good look at the planet let anything make you know our obligation -- a planet.
The expert and that's what would drive.
Having valuing adoption a bit more to take care of the children who -- ornery here -- before we.
I'm Laura thank you very much -- political -- be -- -- Carol thank you for being with us tonight appreciate very much.
