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We don't know why you provide the same neighborhood beautiful by the good school you provide -- -- program providing day care center.
-- fired up vice president Joseph Biden saying this week that we poll public union workers for the work they do.
But here's what federal government workers actually make compared to private sector workers and that's why some reports say we don't know -- they all -- the taxpayers so who's right.
Hi everybody I'm David -- welcome to -- -- box let's go and focus with the Steve Forbes rich -- guard Elizabeth MacDonald Victoria Barret Rick Unger and John -- a full house today.
Steve first few who owes who -- Well -- -- appreciates what firefighters do what police officers do what teachers should do.
But that's what they get paid for but that uses are enormous David in terms of benefits abuse of overtime and -- is determined not by what the market will -- Pay -- -- purely political muscle so ends up.
Cost spin out of control.
Okay so -- you know obviously we appreciate the work the public sector workers do but we are paying them for that working -- -- case.
They get more than we do.
Yeah I don't think the vice president was implying otherwise look it's not always about dollars and cents I think what he said we know then -- we know and that thanks that Steve was correctly just talking about look.
I know each and every one of you for letting me sit here and have fun with you Saturday -- -- I want you -- -- in -- any of you any money that is -- got.
You got to stick to what he was talking about.
Our -- but -- -- he did he was sort of reacting to folks who who are concerned about the disparity between what public sector workers are getting over private sector workers.
-- and you know here's the deal I mean we will of course we don't regret the very good teachers and a good firemen and the cops by the way the firemen and the cops were exempted in the Wisconsin battle.
But the -- or is this seat warmer so the clock walked jurors you know.
Board of education's -- tense supervises -- get -- -- cadillacs and their own parking spaces.
I'm telling you can ride a bicycle down -- office hallways and not -- to -- -- any work day.
And so that's the issue -- also that there is government -- because of three bubbles we had in this economy.
-- basically the federal government is still virtually at the same size isn't bigger than before the recession hit so Victoria do we -- them lower in fact -- -- Us.
Well I think the unfortunate thing right now is that current.
Firefighters for example.
Are taking the heat for for plans that were enacted decades ago and pensions that have been collecting for decades we saw story out of San Jose where.
A firefighter was in line at the grocery store with a steak and someone else gave him a hard time Michael -- nice thing you can afford that state with my money.
We've gone too far I think a -- should be able to get a state for their family right.
But it's the past pensions that need to be looked at and that did that is happening in California San Diego say this it.
-- they're trying to address that so we we can't get confused between like hey we want these guys to show up and do a good job.
But that did that disconnect has been too great where you've gotten 90% of government workers getting nice full pensions and compared 18% of the private sector.
So rich it's those past promises.
That are causing the problems not not current realities right.
-- -- is current realities I disagree with my good friend -- on this in California.
That police departments are notorious.
Four policemen loading their last three years of employment with all kinds of overtime.
To set the bar very high for their pension payments.
They also do a lot of double dipping in a sneaky way.
That is they retire then they take on a new job with a different titles so that they can have to pensions it's outrageous there's a fire that is a policeman in Fresno.
Who made 250000.
Dollars last year and over time how do you figure that.
So John -- it's still going on according to rich -- -- this isn't based on what's happened in the past it's still evident.
It's still happening I think were being entirely too soft on Vice President Biden what this reminds us so that is something very basic.
Governments do not create jobs instead they tax or borrow from the productive private sector.
To create jobs that pay more -- offer more benefits sophomore vacation this thing about how we owe them no no they should be thanking us.
And they should be very grateful to us taxpayers for giving off these tax revenues they get that allow them to live very nice lives at our expense and very often for doing very little.
Well Steve Forbes I don't think you've often been accused of being too soft on Iran criticizes Vice President Biden but yeah just right -- -- Well -- -- of the bottom line is -- the states and especially municipalities where you are gonna get some of blow -- in terms of bankruptcy David.
It all has to do with benefits especially health care benefits -- you have an open ended.
No cost controls at all the thing spins out of control we don't fund pension funds when you allow is a rich points out abuse of over time.
Abuse of benefits double dipping triple dipping as you have here in the State of New York.
Thing spins out of control again bottom line it's not the tasks that we begrudge not to -- we don't begrudge people willing to do them.
But by Dolly doesn't mean you overpay and abuse the taxpayer Rick -- how do you deal with contracts that simply can't be met because a lot of these politicians of the passes I think you would agree.
Made promises it couldn't be fulfilled how do you deal -- those contract.
It's it's clearly a problem look -- you -- all sorts of crazy legal issues here because -- look at the contracts are contracts we have have an obligation.
To honor those contracts but I gotta say this to John.
John I hope you never have a fire your house I really mean that.
Because you can't -- vilify these guys who were doing an important job we can have a very reasonable discussion and it's -- it's a discussion that needs to be at.
About how we pay these people and some of the things that are going on.
But let's not vilify people -- indeed.
His work well there are again got -- Chancery spy go -- I don't vilified them -- is much as I say wait a second they do they get pensions that we don't get the private sector they get far more vacation.
That we get in primary Saturday literally get they clearly get paid more.
And I don't think the effort they expand.
Matches what they get paid what in the their benefits on to say tell anybody who announced this.
They -- coming out of -- we don't work for them.
All right I listen I don't hold out as a guy just want to ask about contracts because we have seen contracts -- in the past by.
By President Obama for example -- Mac it -- we remember those GM.
Bondholders that we're supposed to get paid off before anybody else that well guess what he gave it -- to the unions and took it all away from those people -- held contracts.
-- -- -- -- -- unsecured creditors became the bad guys in the GM bailout which is so unfair but you know the issue about contracts -- -- really important one because they're ready the Government Accountability Office says.
You can change the pension plan for government workers and the state municipal level.
-- you can say change the structure of it so that's an important sea change that already is happening to people across the country Steve.
-- out of bottom the bottom line is not having transparency knowing what you're actually contracting for.
A -- to municipalities still they really don't know what they're liabilities are than they blow up and were supposed to bail amount Victoria garner.
Well -- -- the contract issue is being tested in San Diego where voters voted in this this essentially a pension freeze for the next few years.
That's that wasn't written in the contract so you voters are saying we need to.
We need to scrap these contract.
Good point right before you ask that -- rich is that what we're gonna see more of in the future these these got a new contracts like dead and California and of course what happened was cuts of.
Well you have to I don't see how you can honor a contract based on patently false information if you had a contract based on the idea.
The earth was flat with that -- enforce -- contract less equivalent.
We -- these contracts that are based on returns at eight and ten and 12% room which is impossible.
In a world out where bonds are paying less than 2%.
OK that has to be the last word well I'm sure we'll hear from the flat world leaders eventually -- -- Gary Nelson.
Thanks -- well forget about public had.
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