Special Report Online: 6/28/12
Health care battle far from over?
- Duration 32:32
- Date Jun 28, 2012
Health care battle far from over?
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Welcome to another edition -- special report on line I'm Bret -- yes you're right it is Thursday but we're doing another special report on line we figured since it was such a monumental.
And momentous day here in Washington that we would.
Do another online to see how what you're thinking about today and interact with the panel we have a new panel.
To introduce you to -- national correspondent Jim Angle joins us this your first time on -- You've done before -- -- drugs have always been a while welcome back baby started of course as you editor of the hill and syndicated columnist Charles Krauthammer.
First of all Jim a lot of people are typing and saying they were just shocked today.
Mike in Florida this is sad sad day Reid says I'm not a happy place.
This guy's name as devastated.
What did Justice Roberts get for his vote.
I'm angry can in New Jersey and and they just keep flowing in here and by the way if you don't see here.
Statement or comment or question don't worry -- become an and is finally I'm stereo licensed psychiatrist.
I can dispense the appropriate drugs yeah.
Think what -- the reaction here in Washington and around the country and and what your thoughts aren't the ruling to that well there was a lot.
Confusion because people had spent more or less expected I think -- both liberals and conservatives expected the mandate to be.
Struck down in fact I was getting emails from liberal groups.
Hoping the mandate would be struck down so that it might lead to single pay here and in fact Lynn Woolsey who was out there was Democrats today was suggesting that in fact this fight is only beginning in the struggle is not over now we're going to move.
To Medicare for all.
Suggesting a government health system a single -- sort of system.
So you have a lots of people sort of counting on.
The Supreme Court striking death -- -- mandate and it did not but I agree what Charles said earlier.
About the fact that.
They found a way not two.
To not expand government's powers as much as it might have had it gone through the commerce clause.
By saying this is simply attacked that's terribly embarrassing for the president.
Because of course he insisted that it was not a tax and he has several members of congress -- who said.
Had -- been portrayed as a tax it would never have passed and that's sure.
-- everywhere we went through every single vote there's no way that would go -- if he -- even -- -- there was this -- attacks.
It wouldn't have you would -- you would have lost the moderates up.
Jim what about when the president comes out and in a very full throated support of health care and what we're probably going to -- on the campaign trail he starts out by saying.
If you have your health care now you can keep that health care plan what he said all along in the 43 plus speech -- -- game.
However if the company.
Decides it's cheaper for them to pay the fine and to put good people in the exchanges.
-- -- employee decides maybe it's beneficial to go into the exchanges.
It's hard to think that that is actually.
Well because you if you go and exchange you may get a different health plan to -- -- different health plan.
Then -- likely to affect the kind of doctor you're going to yet or at least one that did the kind of reimbursement you have to have.
And -- quite right -- that the incentives in this law.
Create a huge magnet for people to leave employer provided health insurance.
They have the employer look at this where your employer and you say look okay -- 101213.
141000 dollars a year for my -- worker and his family.
Now I can pay a 2000 dollar tax.
I can give that worker -- another let's say three or four grand in salary.
And put him on the exchanges where he would get huge taxpayer subsidies for is insurance which go all the way up to about 90000 dollars in income.
We get plenty of subsidies for his insurance and of course the administration cannot possibly argue that it's not good insurance they've created it.
To be you know -- wonderful planned it to give people full coverage.
So you can say hey you're not -- less than any -- in fact I'm gonna give you extra money and you're gonna get subsidies from the government.
That is a tremendous magnet for people and it surveys of big companies have suggested that a lot of them.
Are thinking about ending their coverage for their workers and putting them on the exchanges and if that happens -- the cost of this law.
Goes very very rapidly because you'd have far more people on the exchanges and big taxpayer subsidies.
Maybe some people are you know saying that this ruling hands the election to President Obama.
I heard all day today from Republicans including senator Lindsey Graham and others.
That they thought the exact opposite that this would fire today so much that it would be like 2010 and the Tea Party in the whole deal.
Being re -- for a candidate who perhaps needed to reignite his right flank.
There was major concern privately and move.
Past few weeks.
If the law was struck down the Republican.
Base that has been so fired up against obamacare.
Would find other things to think about and maybe not support Mitt Romney you know to get to the extent that he needs their support.
As you know not a lot of Republican support John McCain in 2008 and and that really was found there was not enough.
A vote of the power behind his campaign to attract.
Enough loyalty from the party to get them over the edge -- -- was facing the same thing analogue we're very worried about it I think it I think that.
Senator Graham is right the opposite is true they are not now face with the burden of replacing him which they did not want to be faced -- They are raising money like a house on fire over this.
And the date as I mentioned before retained his energy that is really required but is -- the vessel.
To make it to know capital and and I actually on -- that if different life that -- -- quote.
From may 2009.
Op Ed Mitt Mitt Romney wrote.
He said first we established when he recommends Massachusetts as a model he says.
We establish incentives for those who are uninsured -- buy insurance using tax penalties.
As we did our tax credits as others have proposed encourages those free riders to take responsibility for themselves.
Rather than pass or medical costs on to others trust me.
I was in an unusual interview where I went down this road and there's no way and very pleasant back and this will be a quote.
That you'll hear in commercials over an African as President Obama also continues to repeat what he said today which is.
Let's move past this and not refight the old battles.
Terms I do remember that interview -- usual -- yes he said that's an unusual.
Question you asked about Romney -- you'd think you'd be prepared for that apparently wasn't.
He considers it unusual.
Look I think the Romney has about it it's it.
It gives the Obama administration present himself.
A real boost.
Yes it's prestige is increased he avoided catastrophe.
And the ordinary person who's not gonna look at all of -- the details of this bill is we have exhaustively over a year and a half.
Is gonna say it's approved by the Supreme Court -- Qaeda you know there's -- -- the good housekeeping seal of approval.
So it's a kind of applause from the very idea of Obama care.
For the Republicans would it does is it gives them an opportunity.
It gives him an opening and the love and struck down the opening would have been gone the issue would've been in the past it would have been like.
Clinton and his reelection in 96 he was helped by the fact.
That his Health Care Reform was destroyed -- So he didn't have an albatross he didn't have to defend it wasn't around in 96.
And that probably would've happened for Obama but the opportunity that Republicans have of running against his real life issue.
It's just an opportunity and as you said his rubbed me the guy who could make the case.
Now I'm not sure that just because he said stuff in the past that is sort of contradictory of what he says now.
He can to make the case I think he can argue and simply say look.
It's different in Massachusetts -- the federalism argument or whatever.
But on the day I'm elected I will abolish its gonna make a difference can he make the argument why it's a bad idea.
And if he can I think it's a plus support for him if he can't I think -- this will be seen as a huge.
Day for Obama.
He started today and and they ran an -- and said what he said -- -- -- as well that you had members of congress today including.
Lawmaker from Arizona who said they have awakened a sleeping giant.
Did this issue was instrumental in 2010.
And now the issue is back.
And down let's face it Mitt Romney could use little excitement in -- -- the ranks of Republicans and especially people who were.
-- raised by the idea of an individual mandate.
So -- the issue is now in play -- how -- the extent to which Mitt Romney can take advantage of it is an open question.
Wanda Wanda in Fresno says -- give a great speech today -- -- as we've got to get the Republican House and senate.
And then this all goes away.
Nicholas and he sees as I can understand the -- permitting congress attacks for not buy health insurance Justice Kennedy was right in his dissent.
By the way it's just amazing how we focused on Kennedy for so lives explaining well now -- he was so.
Democrats are saying -- -- you -- -- health care who's on the cover of time magazine with that black and white photo or anything out he was the most adamant that.
Next to Scalia yeah in the dissent.
The majority essentially rewrote the law according to candy when shifting their reasoning and interpretation from the commerce cost of the tax -- We pay -- this is Nicholas DC when we buy something we pay tax on we earn income corporations pay taxes on the revenue.
We have never had to pay attacks were in activity.
That is for choosing not to buy something or not to partake in commerce it seems.
That this Roberts.
Could be pretty flimsy and in history.
-- -- I think he will look he's got the result we want it.
But the argument is such a flimsy one is such a week was.
That I think you his reputation will suffer I'm sure he's loved by liberals today but when you read in this decision.
And then you read no dissent it is utterly devastating.
And the reason it makes no sense is this.
This is not a tax the purpose of attacks is to raise revenue the purpose.
-- penalty is to prevent you from doing acts and what we're dealing with here is something that is clearly designed to be punitive.
And to compel you to buy health insurance and the proof will be in this week and actually see -- demonstrated.
When it comes to deciding how much of the penalty you and I were corporation play.
If we refuse to buy health insurance.
What level were they -- 300 dollars if you're twenty year old.
A thousand dollars they are not gonna set it as you would -- attacks by how much revenue do the treasury needs.
They will send it by how -- -- you have to go.
In order to compel enough for young people to go and buy insurance so they will actually set the amount of the penalty -- so called tax.
As a way to compel and not as a way to raise revenue which shows you that.
It's not attack this and we Tucker with the judge you by the way had to do -- fox report hit hopefully you have the TV on and the computerized.
Chip Smith why not entirely sure -- -- and you reading no website so yeah.
40% now have a computer on while they're watching TV as -- studies anyway.
We talk about this a little bit -- Is this in a deeper legal sense -- precedent in which the federal government can now say you have to buy something.
And if you don't buy it we're going to tax you.
And isn't an expansion because there's nothing in them the majority decision.
That suggests there's a limiting aspect to it on the tax Caldwell.
You had a speaker Boehner today were saying so -- now mean that the administration can tell us that we have to eat broccoli on Tuesday is.
-- so there were some questions about.
How much this expanded the administration's power and for federalists like John Roberts -- -- as his hearing went it seemed like he was.
This seems a little out character.
Well in them and that there are some limits to what the administration to do which is why they did it through the tax thing -- sort of the commerce clause reviewed under the commerce clause.
There would have been no limit.
On what the federal government to do -- Moment that that the -- -- would not be able to reject any thing had they decide -- through that bases which is one reason -- if you believe there was some people are saying to me well he did it cleverly because he did it through the tax thing.
Which means they didn't open the door.
To complete government control of every part of your life and forcing you -- broccoli on Tuesday.
But but he clearly expands administration and look.
This this law gives the administration.
Enormous control over where you get insurance how you get insurance how insurance is priced -- what Hal Jordan in Missouri the doctors are going to be there.
When you finally get there.
And right doesn't control that the people come at a loss medical school are actually going to continue to do it now -- that the people that are planning to retire if this -- -- I got into place.
Are going to stay in business well I'm one of the big parts of this look they raised -- they claimed it was only coat gonna cost a trillion.
Republicans say you look at the first full ten years of implementation is going to be two point six trillion not one trillion.
They have one trillion in taxes has had 500 billion of that as you guys discussed earlier -- from Medicare.
Now the chief actuary said you're not getting 500 billion savings your -- that money twice you're gonna spend it and Medicare and you're planning on spending it in the exchanges.
Where where else that was another prickly interview with President Obama has that had big photo it's -- -- if president and other unusual -- Presidents or presidential candidates and our little -- good news -- -- -- you're gonna -- It was interesting because we all remembering Justice Kennedy and Justice Roberts from remarks in late march before we -- -- this.
Decision this morning they were quite critical.
Trying to use the commerce clause to.
Not regulate commerce but created that they said that wasn't allowed what was interesting is there is a direct parallel I think though it might be considered narrower.
We get congress' ability attacks he's still say wait thank you just said Brett.
What do we do you mean why is -- attacks if nothing exists you don't do something and so you're taxed.
No we -- on activity not an activity so it it still doesn't make a lot of sense but.
I definitely knew he wasn't gonna -- out of his commerce.
Clause position from oral arguments I didn't know you find this tunnel and tell him that I I that's why -- -- -- mandate was going down because I knew he was.
You know he's so vociferous about it.
In the -- -- -- couple questions Jim says can't congress just defund the whole thing.
Yes they can't that they made the senate to move through what they can actually -- that the house could defund things and they'd only need 51 votes in the senate -- But if you defund it but leave the law in place then you have created enormous chaos.
Where they need to do they need they wanna change the substance of the law they wanna preserve preexisting conditions get rid of the mandate.
And they're all sorts Republican plans to essentially do all of the things that people liked.
In the Affordable Care Act but get rid of the mandate Republicans can do that and they think they can do it without tax increases.
But if you just simply defund.
The bill and leave in place the mandates that is an unworkable solution.
Even though Republicans could do that without having sixty votes in the senate.
What about Charles argument that.
If it's attacks it has it would've had to start in the house yeah I mean if there were about eight ways you can look at this and say it obviously isn't -- -- -- -- back.
And you -- and live Obama saying it's not attacks and in between there's all these distinctions -- tax.
From the -- -- which is to raise revenue and penalty which is to deter action.
I mean this is one of the weakest -- -- -- -- in fact I think it's.
It means that nobody will ever again you get a speeding ticket it's going to be speeding tax you can receive.
You'll notice in the mail that you you -- they're not going to be taxed for on ruling behavior on the road.
It's just silly I think cannot I think it's not been -- Achieve the justices.
Historical credit I you know on the night that they oral arguments were made I went back and have a look at this because I remember thinking and saying.
That Roberts has this kind of institutional.
Sense of himself and in there as custodian of the reputation of the court.
And that he'd be opposed to try to uphold the -- simply because he doesn't want the court to be seen.
As acting as an ideological.
As a partisan and Simoneau who overturning Obama's law.
And I wasn't sure which he would go you don't overturn a law.
Because of the commerce clause which I think he thinks is is is and that is not a way to deal with or.
-- he up although our as a way to.
As as a way to preserve the institution of the court I thought he'd have to choose.
What shocked me is this morning I wake up and I I read well I've been -- for a little while.
He issues his decision and what he did is he trying to finish and he got the cake in the 82 he did he.
He said the commerce or cause can be used tear it has to be restrained.
But he found -- -- a way of -- finessed.
To a whole -- and strike down the commerce which I thought was a clever way to serve two masters.
Custodian of the court and second as -- of sort of a conservative.
Think -- but in a way that I think is really theological and unsatisfied.
Misty is very fired up he or she says get over it you lost.
It's pointed we have not yet begun to fight.
Questions are wondering if Charles is gonna stand with -- and other Democrats and say this is not a tax.
Pair repeat that let them -- this is look I if if I wouldn't have written this and -- so clearly a penalty that I'm not sure that anybody.
I'm not sure it's got legs a historical legs are people gonna refer -- this.
And expand that tax.
-- power of the congress.
Based on this I'm not sure anybody left -- right things is is a good idea.
You know -- Chief -- has correspondent Ed Henry is joining us from the north lawn and give us some background if you would.
Some stuff that you didn't report tonight from a White House perspective and the learning of it and kind of reaction to.
Well yeah you know the day started with a lot of officials we're talking to a private you know they don't wanna -- on the record but they -- expecting that this was going to go down and in some way if not the whole building thought at least.
The individual mandate would be ruled unconstitutional they were very very nervous about that and so.
The president was watching television just like the rest of us he was watching a split screen I'm told.
-- fox CNN and some of a couple of other networks and he saw the initial reports.
That look and chief Justice Roberts said that based on the commerce cause this is unconstitutional looks like the mandates gone.
And I'm told the president very puzzled look on its face because he is believed -- that as a constitutional law professor he said this in the Rose Garden weeks ago.
That he thought it was basically a slam dunk not a close call.
The it is constitutional.
A couple minutes past and I'm told that -- were sort of scurrying around and they.
They didn't have any inside information from the court in terms of any of the justices are their -- but they did have an administration lawyer on the scene at the Supreme Court.
Who said wait a second here call them up over here and said that Chief Justice went on to say this in this in this and I've got the opinion here and it turns out the -- gonna survive so they rushed back he had to tell the president it was -- rob -- his his White House counsel.
And and she basically put two thumbs up to him in the president sort of looked up by I was told.
In a confused way like -- watching the TV and they're saying it's going down you're telling me surviving what's the real story she explained it.
And in the president hugged her so it gives you an idea of how excited they were because it was a huge surprise here they really thought this was going down.
And welcome to our world in those first few seconds unfortunately.
Megyn Kelly was back on track.
It was tough to digest very quickly.
-- from Saint Augustine says love Ed Henry's reporting.
Rick on the road says here's the breaking news the president watched fox and and maybe that's it may that is it Ed what about this whole thing about the tax.
You know when you press him on it and I'm sure he's going to be asked at some point soon.
About all times you said that it was not a tax.
He about took George Stephanopoulos is head off.
In I think it was a late 2009 when the president did all the Sunday night talk shows and when the ABC interview came out George Stephanopoulos really -- and -- said.
How can you not call this a tax when you're forcing people.
To pay a penalty if they if they don't take insurance and the president got pretty indignant and it insisted this is not -- tax.
And so yes it's ironic now that when the Chief Justice stands up and says well it's attacks so the law survives the White House said OK that's a -- that school.
Although that the argument at all -- that is a little bit different from that they're not admitting its attacks what they are saying.
-- this is going to be interesting as it plays on the campaign they're saying.
It's not attack still all the Chief Justice in the court was saying was that congress has.
Tax power and that's why it's constitutional but they insist it's not a tax.
Because individuals have a choice you can get insurance or pay the penalty you get out of the penalty if you get insurance now obviously there be people arguing.
If you're being forced to get the insurance it's not really a choice.
But it at the end of the day that's very -- -- need to be because.
That is one thing the court did not decide today really they said it was tax authority that congress -- they did decide if it really is a tax.
In so that's gonna be fought out between Mitt Romney and President Obama and I suspect the court didn't decided today but voters will November.
Last thing at an -- I should point out the jamboree and did a great job digesting.
Very quickly on steps of the capitol I mean.
That's tough stuff 200 pages in the matter of seconds.
Politically how much do you think this plays.
For him on the trail.
Last thing and do you think you know he uses this as you know part of his his stump speech or do we hear more of what we've heard from Democrats today which is.
Let's move all.
Bottom line is I don't think it's a game changer because I think at the end of the day it's about jobs in the economy and that's such as my analysis that's from talking to senior officials in the building behind me who have said that to me today that they know at the end of the day.
He could be the election will not be settled on health care it's jobs and the economy the president is a little bit under water -- on that right now they know that that's what Mitt Romney's hammering.
And they've got to get a couple of positive jobs reports including the one late next week as a as a starting point between now and November where it does help.
And where it is a big victory for the president is this has been a brutal month almost nothing has gone well for him and like I said they were bracing for yet another defeat today.
Getting this win is a shot in the arm for the president his staff.
The campaign in Chicago and I bet he will be taking this out on the road saying a lot of people doubted -- but we won that one he needed this victory bad -- OK Ed thank you very much for sticking around but -- still aren't good I just wanna update real quick chat program -- on the hill -- the transportation bill is stuck.
They can agree again.
Apparently they can't agree tonight there are some problems on both sides.
There and try to do it tomorrow.
But there was big hopes for some coming together but maybe it's not -- The Heritage Foundation and other conservatives are not happy at all of the deal was struck.
And Democrats had a problem what Democrats are always a problem when you.
So you're not enough money is being spent and.
We're we're back.
Not to square one but you know where it's pretty it's a little -- on -- they wanted to keep the environmental protection division was shot -- Yeah we're gonna say Capital One thing you bet it was talking about jobs and the president making some jobs things.
This is not going to help on the jobs front if you talk a small business -- we did today they call this an enormous wet blanket.
For the expansion of jobs and small businesses.
And as you know the way the law structured if you have 49 employees you were not required to get health insurance if you have fifty you are.
So what do you think that does to somebody who has 49 and has a business this very close to the bone in my -- making a lot of money you are not going to hire the fiftieth through the 55 person.
You're just not going to do it and they said all one of their other problems was Costas hasn't done anything to bring down the cost.
So in terms of job creation the continued burden of the Affordable Care Act is not going to help -- president.
Another breaking news story shooting at Fort Bragg North Carolina one soldier.
Dead from the 520 -- the two others wounded.
They're saying that a soldier apparently shot another member of that unit and turned the weapon on himself.
Third soldier was in the area was slightly wounded so were covering that as well had a couple.
Messages about that.
OK Charles let's wrap up we'll get a couple minutes.
Of of this day.
We've kind of downplayed the contempt open it is the first.
Cabinet member ever to be held in contempt of congress.
-- -- -- How big fish because of the way that process works with contempt.
The criminal contempt and go nowhere.
The -- -- -- -- up with a judge.
Who will deliberate over whether he should force the release of the documents.
Endless negotiations behind closed doors I think as a political issue this is probably end of the road.
Obamacare -- a political issue obviously is big knotted the biggest jobs in the economy but it's big.
Obama's got to be real careful remember the State of the Union Address he knows how unpopular it is he gave it one line.
That's hit his major achievement eighteen months he gave in one line in his State of the Union Address this year.
He doesn't like to talk about I think he will for a couple of weeks sort of took.
To get the boost in the prestige of being supported by the Supreme Court and I think he will say yeah you doubted me you thought this was.
-- He's not gonna say he'll say you you -- me I got it right.
But I don't think he wants to go into the details it's not popular.
I think his only -- -- that Romney has the Romney care.
The burden on his back so maybe can't make the argument but he has no incentive to do a big deal about obamacare.
I think Romney does mica of Florida says thank you for letting our voices be heard you -- -- we -- -- Every week.
Let me ask you this there are some Democrats.
Who may not be happy in the house there -- some whispers that the -- especially moderate Democrats who.
We're going to be displeased if the court came back and -- this thing down as a campaign issue.
A two run on.
Because now all of these races we're going to have to factor ran.
Whether this is -- tax or not and did you vote -- -- didn't you and all these small businesses that have concerns about.
The health care law now there are positives in the twice rituals -- can stay on the parents in the a lot of things but it's tougher for some of those house members to -- There are very few house Democrats the left who are moderates and the ones that are there remaining.
Likely voted against health care or will be able to explain.
You know -- over their way around.
Their vote and they will take incredible heat about what this does to effect tiring and what it just a small businesses.
And that will be.
Fought out on the congressional campaign trail.
-- President Obama he just avoided a bullet Charles is -- really can't campaign on us.
But it doesn't do anything change energize his base for galvanize the wings of the party help -- get me raise money nothing it just.
It's just a -- and major -- bulletin major wound disdain that it that would have been just so difficult for him.
We crushed under the weight of of an ailing economy so as a candidate it just is there's one lesson big boulder on -- shoulder but it is not at all.
I'm going and going into the fall again I think he will absolutely.
Humble Mitt Romney.
In ads and at the debates over his past on the mandate.
And you know argue it's a necessary evil.
But it's going to be just -- different scene at congressional level almost 9% of.
You said you were surprised by the vote today 86% said this will help Republicans.
The biggest political issue for you jobs 43%.
Thousands of you logging and Josh says thanks guys if this was only available every night.
This is seriously innovative and could really revolutionize.
Josh we'll have to work on that and I'm not sure.
Every night into -- -- final thought.
Well -- that the one thing that has not been mentioned is that the court seven to two.
The notion or at least did not approve the notion that the federal government can and naked exercise of power could tell the states.
This is the way they're going to get more than half the people who were not insured insured.
And what they essentially said was the federal government cannot coerce the states.
By telling them we're gonna take your money where your current money away if you don't do what we want you to do.
What is likely to happen now -- the states who share the cost of Medicare the federal government is that they're gonna take these people and not gonna want Medicaid where they have to pay part of the cost.
They're going to put an end of the exchanges.
Which is all paid for by the taxpayers.
And there are people analysts looking at this saying this is gonna add 500 billion dollars to the ten -- cost.
Because you're gonna -- all these four people and exchanges who might have been on Medicaid instead because any governor Democrat or Republican is gonna say.
Why should I spend my State's money why should I be taking money away from education or police or whatever.
In order to do this when the filter -- -- set up a whole system -- and the taxpayers all across the country can pay for.
And the other thing is the taxes go up as -- -- -- January 1.
Even though the exchanges aren't really set up until 2014.
After the election of course in taxes go up okay Liz in Virginia said great to have Jim on the panel JD says not one of my comments showed up why.
Well at least 12 GB.
And a lot of people asking where Steve Hayes he's on vacation.
What this family I think there in Disney World so tracking down we want some comments from him.
I thank you all tonight thanks to watch a special report online at this is your first time come -- this is interactive it's fun join us of course every weeknight.
6 PM eastern.
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