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-- -- -- -- -- of the verdict now the health care -- is officially the law of the land.
Some business owners warning they have to lay off workers.
So that the supreme court's ruling just like an -- Money can't -- jobs recovery.
Hi everyone I'm Brenda Buttner and this is Bulls and Bears let's get -- -- you do it.
Yeah the bulls bears this week we've got Gary -- Smith Tobin Smith Jonas Max Ferris along with Larry -- and Julian Epstein welcome everybody.
-- -- -- intact health care loss of the -- impact on jobs.
Absolutely Brennan and here's -- But think about fifty that's the -- speed limit for the economy because if you have let's say 55 or sixty employees now because the new law you're gonna take it down to 49 because you'd be forced and mandated coverage.
If you're under fifty guess what you're gonna state under but the worst thing are are these franchisees these companies that have been sort of hanging on by a thread.
A trying to recover.
And if you're gonna see unfortunately mass mass layoffs and businesses closing.
Because -- just can't make a profit on this and what does that mean that means.
A lot less jobs not a little less jobs a lot districts -- -- do you think it's that and healthy for the jobs recovery I mean there is a credit to small businesses which would help their margins in this case.
He and you get a tax deduction for.
Getting insurance lo and behold cons of them employees having to pay for insurance in the first place is what hurts doesn't herding -- for decades that's a -- system.
No one has -- proposal to get off that system so unfortunately.
There's just more of the current situation now we'll say.
A lot hiring is better off this week in the was before as a -- -- because.
If this whole situation went bad you would have cost an employer more to hire somebody because.
Then they would have had they wouldn't have all the mandated policies and then all of a sudden premiums -- have gone even hired in the frightened to go out and so they're actually marginally better off when it comes the hard in the world we can help at all not -- haven't got your brother who -- this fact is also.
Disagreeing with him.
-- -- Kind of strategy Jonas has the pretzel logic thing go -- it could I got lost about thirty seconds of the people that actually with -- -- Let's let me -- my simple way here's what I think it's happened to Supreme Court already decided that the mandate is -- attack.
-- taxes are bad taxes hurt the economy to go back it's always point this small -- is that's fifth.
Via taxes to pay 100000.
That's 100000 dollars out of pocket -- already been small business out of saying hey look I got close watermark restaurants because I can't afford a 100000.
Now the locals say all you get these tax credits can apply for exemptions okay fine I'll buy that.
But the 100000 dollar cost doesn't -- all -- yeah.
Job what is that big jobs.
Okay here's what -- does the job but 100000 dollar raise then sucked out of the economy so people then can't have to pay less to -- go to.
Those restaurants -- the -- I think yeah if you're the health care industry that's the place to be anyone young old.
-- -- they're going good health care industry because that's where the money's flown everyone else is gonna suffer.
-- -- -- Everybody talks about how business owners small business owners have been -- certainty.
Now they finally got it doesn't that help in terms of whether or not they're going to hire they now know this is that this is the law of the land.
I think that's right I -- business owners are making their decisions based on other things just let's put some facts on the table.
First of all the tax penalty according to the majority opinions -- court chief Justice Roberts will affect a little more than 1% of the people.
Secondly 96% of US businesses all businesses under fifty employees are exempt third those businesses above fifty employees the remainder 4%.
Of those -- of -- Provide insurance health insurance for their employees.
Would small businesses get here.
-- and this has been studied by the CBO is they get 35 to 50% of their premiums.
Back to them -- dated back to them through the form of tax credits.
So you know.
Do you you heard it during the course of this debate and congress must support being be.
The the roundtable the business roundtable supported this you had support from the hospitals.
You had -- question.
Are business addresses are.
So basically doesn't know.
No real impact on jobs -- is -- you're basically saying I think this is actually good for jobs and I think it's good for the economy will get most of my god let me finish the point guys -- I -- -- I -- on hold on much but Larry I'll get to it -- we can have a -- conversation if we -- shadow over -- there.
Most in fact if you look at most of -- in industrial its competitors.
They'd provide that overwhelmingly provide insurance for their voices is a critical part of our international competitiveness -- proved critical part.
Of being able to two attractive talented workforce rightly.
Take out shouting we have.
-- Bulls and -- can't really get it now -- -- right now Larry go ahead.
You know did did this straw that broke the camel's back for small and medium sized businesses in particular they are under attack in this country right now the regulatory environment.
They tax uncertainty but.
But I talk to these days this is every day and they're saying you know what I'm not promote higher.
It's not just because of the health care law is because -- -- get locked in addition to everything else there are.
Already dealing with -- certainly we can't let -- Dunlop all of -- the ladies on main street but it's not helping matters it's not an encouraging when you're -- -- And it's also -- her wages because companies.
Are gonna pass that -- -- but could that.
Don't please respond to some back.
Well -- -- -- lot of them are platitudes -- rather than anybody.
What foods you can help restore some facts here -- Kellyanne how hot here though I said -- give and I can't front page editor and Larry then what we'll get on I had.
Simply stated -- -- the middle class it is -- -- the worst of all kinds of -- and if we get a better business environment a more liberal business environment we can't handle this potentially -- Not like it but we can handle it well we don't have that one out tell me that really isn't that the issue right now we're in a tepid recovery.
What does this do does a slam on the brakes thing.
Well look let's -- some economic fact.
Bum when you reduce demand I believe at some point in time the left was arguing that we have a demand problem that it's not a tax problem it's a demand problem.
Well does two things here first off the actual premiums have gone up you know so much that backs taking cash out of the system now for the business standpoint there's no question.
The margin remember that's how we make decisions at the margin at the margin -- in the in the employee or like me says.
It's not worth it so I'm just not gonna take that -- now -- -- multiply that remember -- multiplier effect.
By 2.5 million small businesses and that's where those jobs get subtracted from the economy.
All right Julian thirty seconds I had to -- So I -- to employee people are small business and I talked a small business all the time will tell me premiums -- the same.
Or lower secondly taxes are lower in this country than they ever have been taxes or 15% of GDP.
Nobody on this panel has responded to the fact that 96% of -- sent.
The remainder of the businesses those businesses are providing.
Their coverage already and that small businesses get 50% of their premiums for indebted to them through the form -- must respond to those facts.
-- Gary -- go ahead.
Well I -- OK let's have per person wise I as I mentioned right up front this whole rebate.
Thing is just moving money around so what it did and I think the bigger point is.
That the left says oh my gosh this is actually in -- makes a point -- actually create jobs I don't understand what's being created here how could -- It's like saying okay every business out there has to provide a cappuccino machine for all their employees and that's gonna create jobs no it's not gonna.
To create jobs.
It's gonna move money around it's gonna move money out of -- one sector and into the cappuccino makers sector there's no net new jobs being credited ya I just doesn't make any logic.
OK Janice YouTube coffee maker go ahead response.
Charged premiums have been growing for decades -- than inflation what would've caused him to -- even faster than already trajectory they're on.
Is if this mandate wasn't there you -- more people -- insurance paying premiums in the system.
That's the -- is gonna keep an employer with relatively affordable insurance while there's formal -- -- which is not now.
Bob I'll second step I got canceled I canceled my answers I get the right under fifty employees I -- so that's what happened aka.
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