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Jose Baez 'OTR' Uncut, Pt. 3: Casey Anthony's former attorney reflects on not guilty verdict, her future, animosity with the prosecutor and more
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What what's -- up to now.
You know.
Casey is.
Unfortunately -- a prisoner in our own freedom.
You know.
I.
I I think what she's patiently doing is -- is waiting to get off probation.
I always knew is she she has may be I think a month left.
And I always -- should be able to get through it without any problems she was a model inmate in in jail and and I think that.
It's I don't think we're gonna hear.
Like many other cases that Casey Anthony is getting in in trouble with the law because.
I just don't.
Knowing her the way I do I don't think that that's.
That's ever going to be an issue.
Does she ever relationship with their parents not made on the -- -- -- -- very public their father sexually abusing her and do this.
And I don't know to ship relation with a father today -- their mother.
You know unfortunately.
I've heard reports.
That of course she has a relationship with a mother.
I hate to -- the waiver that she gave me to write the book.
Really ended up until the part where I -- -- presenting her.
And you know I wanna respect that agreement.
She was she was kind enough to give me the authority to do it and to do it.
Knowing that I was going to tell all.
And you know -- -- I'm indebted to her for that and it I I don't wanna view isn't so.
It if it appears from the book and from our conversation here and if I could sort of break it under the a sound -- is that George was essentially the villain.
And that she was the victim as well as of course Caylee but that's sort of the way.
I I hear you saying.
Well I don't you know I don't classify.
I don't classify anyone in in any of these positions.
But this is a very complicated friendly.
And this was an accident.
That.
Snowballed out of control has crystal Holloway said that George said.
So it you know it was it was one of those things it's a sad sad tragedy and nobody won here.
No one.
No one is better because of it.
And you know I I wish them all.
You know I I wouldn't wish of this tragedy on anyone.
And -- I really would like to see is I'd like to see Casey be able to go on with her life and and you know take advantage of that this opportunity that she said that she has of of and maybe do some good within an -- and you know I there's -- part of me that think that thinks of that is exactly what's gonna happen.
-- there's also part in the book where you write an -- -- in and normal thing and characterize it is that.
Lawyers sort -- get -- spats and even develop nicknames -- for each other gets a little nasty but you -- take umbrage with -- -- the prosecutor Jeff Ashton.
With how he treated you out that you thought it was smirking and laughing and you returned it was and they called a lot rats fingers and threat -- -- something.
That's it's.
You know that -- I think that they can't happens at all big big case you don't realize that there I think viewers to be surprise readers -- be surprised by that.
Well you know I didn't I didn't wanna go that way.
-- and I write this out in the book I talk about how you know when when.
When the case was over.
Before the jury came back even before the verdict came back I went and shook his hand and I and I told me try to tough case.
Good case and after the trial was over I complemented him and the entire prosecution team.
And then he just you know he went out and wrote a book and and talked about.
Made numerous.
Disparaging remarks about me.
And I didn't care so much because after three -- of dealing with.
A hearing it from the media hearing and considering the source -- never really bothered me as much but it really disturbed and bothered my family a great deal.
And one of the thing is they they made me promise them is like listen.
If you write this book you're not gonna hold back and I had to honor that and I had to say all right well you know normally this is not something I would say.
But you know he drew first blood and I call -- like I saw it.
I call him a coward in in the book.
Because.
After the verdict was over and he took off to new York and was making the media rounds and didn't even -- for sentencing.
And I don't know how -- you know this is a lawyer.
After working within -- with a team enslaving for three years.
You don't abandon your team like that.
And you know if Casey had been convicted of first degree murder.
-- -- showed up.
Every day even though it had no participation in the penalty phase out of shown up every day.
And and past the media of all I told you so's and -- sat there and stood by my team so the very end and and the fact that he.
Ran.
-- after the verdict.
I'm sorry I have no other way of classifying.
Abandoning the prostitute the prosecution team.
That way other than the calling him a coward.
How about -- -- and having him -- out during the investigation what was the impact of that.
Well you know it was it was in in in the book I explain how when he came down.
It was.
-- It was bad in some ways but but the end result was actually very good because we had issues communicating in the jail.
We would be an -- a classroom setting and we could hear the intercom clicking.
And her and I never felt comfortable speaking in the jail about.
You know about the case and whenever we had a talk sometimes -- -- sometimes we break things down.
It and what Leonard did -- -- bonding her out he gave us a lot of time together to be able to build that attorney client relationship.
And I'll tell you this.
With Casey took me a long time to gain her trust this is that this is -- person who had trust issues.
And it wasn't until she saw and spent over a significant amount of time with me and knew that I was protecting her best interest in that I was gonna be there for.
No matter what to the very end but she began to open up and trust me.
And fortunately.
For her.
She did that and and that's what ended up me being able to find out what actually happened on June 16 so.
The result of and that was all the result of her being bonded out and being able to come -- my officer.
Six hours and safer for several weeks.
Let the media I mean every high profile lawyer and every high profile case it's a pounding in a beating.
And you are no exception to get a continent being I'd take a shot back at all -- your chance.
Well you know here here's the thing.
You know I in the book I really.
Yes I've heard some people characterize.
-- bashing the media and you know.
I think to Posey and Tony Ferran that we -- we can -- right back instantly there.
Not a lot -- well I appreciate I appreciate that kind of toughness but I'll I'll tell you what.
-- there were times -- the media actually helped us helped us tremendously and I'll give you two examples of that.
In the book -- talk about how there were times where I needed to meet with -- experts.
And I need to come to New York.
The only way I'm gonna get -- New Yorkers are gonna do an interview and they would fly me over and I would do the every -- meet with my experts.
And then there was a time where 48 hours.
Did a focus group for us.
I sat behind two two -- -- got to see.
-- complete focus group with our jury consultant.
And here's the crazy part about this focus group.
The entire defense.
Was really focused and and harnessed in on what we learned that the focus group.
And when they voted.
On first degree murder it was tended to was their first -- that was the same exact vote.
As the jury as the actual jury in the case.
So us those things -- we would have never been able to afford that.
It's like -- -- they're waiting for the ever to be read and and you heard the right.
-- I remember I remember clearly like it was yesterday.
I'll never forget.
When I heard the first not guilty verdict.
I reached over and I grabbed Casey's hand.
Because I -- rule that I accomplished my goal which was really to -- for life.
In and when you're in -- death penalty case nothing else matters.
You wanna save a human being and you want to and and that's your focus everything else you know granted you want to win the case but.
There's nothing you can't take your eye off the ball and that's and that was the main thing the second not guilty verdict -- squeezed her hand even more.
And then after the third not guilty verdict I squeeze and even tighter and I'm -- -- cracked bone in there somewhere.
But.
After that.
-- than the lying to law enforcement charges came and it wasn't until the second lying -- it's a law enforcement guilty verdict and I thought to myself wait a minute.
All of the all the serious charges are gone.
And I just felt this incredible.
Rush.
Of happiness and relief.
That.
The three and a half years of sometimes working seven days a week sixteen hour days.
-- it it was worth it and I turned to her and and the very first words out of her mouth were.
Thank you.
And I put my hand on -- on the side of her head and I said.
We did it you know we did it.
She is so hated I think Thursday -- -- I mean that the outpouring of hate towards her I mean I don't I can't remember ever seeing a client hated them much -- -- OJ Simpson but.
Com you know your thoughts about that because black tell you.
Nobody believes there ever I think -- a cold blooded -- most.
And debt and that did those of us are studied it thanking me much like I do is that you know that they could prove cause of death with -- a fatal because they remains throughout their so far.
-- how did she deal would -- how does she do it and how do you do it.
Well.
You know I can tell you how -- dealt with it you know there were times.
You know there were a lot of things a lot of facts in this case that that I I didn't I didn't condone.
And and it we certainly didn't.
-- -- a -- -- a lot of pieces of evidence in this case.
And in the book believe it or not I'm given that the freedom to say what I truly feel and I and I give an example.
The first example that comes -- mine is when I was listening to.
The tape that of the phone call that Casey made the night she got arrested.
She's talking -- -- friend as she says it's in our friends breaking out cranks and oh my god if if something happens occasionally I'll die and Casey says.
Oh my god calling you guys was a huge waste she sounded so cold so callous and I remember leaning -- -- her.
And saying to her you know.
If this jury doesn't kill you I will.
And you know these a lot of these conversations.
I talk about in the -- and you know are some of our.
Some of a good conversation some of our bad just a hole I wanted to give people a whole insider's view.
And you know I dealt with it.
Trying to be more understanding.
You know we all say we have we our our system of justice goes by the adage of and the philosophy that ten guilty people go free before one innocent person goes to jail I don't believe that.
Look at the outrage towards Casey.
And we don't see anywhere near that type of outrage to the 281 people.
Who were exonerated by the innocence project.
Yeah that's that's a one night story on the 11 o'clock news for guys spent 27 years in prison for repeating commit to bat.
But Casey Anthony.
She sneezes.
As she's and she's in People Magazine.
So you know RI RA.
I don't I think we got huge problems and our justice system.
And especially what we try to make it entertainment.
And that's why I think all -- that's where I think all the hatred comes from we you know we created a bad guy.
And week we have people out there with pitchforks.
And I don't think that's that does our system of justice any good.
Granted there are issue -- look across the crime.
-- -- -- Is she fat person I mean you think that mean -- and they're gonna like I don't.
You don't think so.
I don't I don't think so you know I think this is a girl who.
Has had some who has some serious issues.
She's been through some tremendous trauma.
You know I don't know and don't believe it or not when I think of Casey I think of lots of flattering things you know she had she is extremely brave young woman.
She looked death in the face.
And said no I'm not I'm not guilty.
And there were numerous times where she showed lots of Curtis -- things.
I just don't act every time I hear you say this guy as expectancy and look at an -- from my lawyer had they connect then I go back to serve like.
Why was she partied might talk to those people in Munich in -- time -- was you know that between that time the child disappeared.
And it and the time that she was arrested she was out.
Party and we just absolutely.
I mean literally -- -- who knows there -- no empathy or sympathy.
There are people who know how to.
Compartmentalize.
Their feelings and and act and feel and be in denial as if nothing ever happened look at Cindy who testified.
That she stop searching for Zandi the nanny three weeks before trial.
She also said that.
You know she didn't believe Caylee was dead until.
Two to three weeks before the trial and this is after they had a funeral for.
This these are her parents.
This is the wish the these are the people who raced her so you know.
Hey there's there's there's something not right here -- -- you know we can and if you've met people.
Who have had.
Mental health issues in the past.
-- You know a lot of their behavior is just unexplainable and a lot of you know we want to be able to put our.
Put our finger on things and give definitive answers and and and maybe take a pill -- and solve problems but.
There are certain things are just very very complicated.
And and that's that's how we describe not only Casey but -- their entire her entire family.
They think much the book is fascinating sounds like isn't inside look at the trial we also off from the outside it's always a -- look at the inside thanks very much.
Thank you so much Greta great to see you.
