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World politics at play in the termination of 20000.
Non union pensions lawmakers on both sides of the aisle demanding.
A new investigation into that decision made during the auto bailout why now.
Well the daily caller claims to have emails showing senior White House and treasury officials.
Were the driving force behind determinations and now some of those retirees are pointing the finger at the president in a new -- take a look.
If you work hard and play by the rules -- you borrowed your connection I would ask President Obama why.
I have no rights.
And he had all the rights to take my -- -- patents.
And never ever look back and say not only -- I take it from Mary Miller but I took it from 20000 other people.
And their families.
A tough situation in -- -- says.
They know how to prevent it from ever happening again hi everybody I'm David has been welcome to Forbes on FOX lets the ball just went.
-- man himself Steve Forbes -- -- Elizabeth MacDonald Victoria Barret.
Bill ball one and Mike -- -- in -- let's start with you you know David if the government can basically cancel your pension and you know what nobody's safe and the president saying if -- played by the -- play by the rules meaning.
Yet to play by the rules become friends with the White House ice -- At 401 k.s are better bet -- -- -- all your money this is what happens -- the government comes into the economy be the fill out there making moves like this this is really good.
Dangerous and a disaster for the Americans out there Rick -- agree or disagree.
Well yeah I think the trends -- already pretty well under way with respect -- for a one case but there's a few things about it that do trouble me a little bit I do worry about companies.
That are going to be filling -- 401 -- with their own stock we all remember Enron.
Here's some other things that concerned me right now.
Only 40% of the baby boomers even have a pension and benefit.
And would you consider how wages have remained stagnant since the mid seventies.
The truth is there are very few Americans out there that have enough money to even put.
Indoor retirement fund they're lucky if they can -- that the bills as every every day goes by.
By the way Mike Rose NTE Max pointed that is if you're -- -- -- -- The Delphi employees who were members of the UAW saw their pensions remain a whole late topped off their pensions -- -- fine.
It's a ones who were connected with a White House that.
-- -- screw that's David -- -- bailout of the auto companies was a kickback to the unions that support the president that solo was it didn't save any jobs just save those jobs.
But getting back to what -- -- point was about forward case of course they're safer because you have more control and yes Rick is right.
A lot of people don't have 401K plans wreck but the point should be able to expand that so that ward do.
Have 401K plans let them be in control of their savings as opposed to the companies they work for and they don't have to have put company stock in that.
They can put any sort of investment they want and that.
So bill individual should be responsible for their own pensions well not really I think.
The -- job benefits we should be pro choice which means that employer wants to offer traditional plan.
They can have it as long as it's fully paid for.
Which also means that no employer could add a penny the benefits and -- the existing on -- benefits were fully covered with cash.
Now the town of ridgewood New Jersey where Michael lives wants to have a ten million dollar payroll -- twenty million dollar pension cost.
-- -- Victoria -- affect.
Bill bill -- have a have a covers collision but I don't think anyone I would actually.
Be as savvy to do this bill if you look at pension funds they're woefully underfunded.
And that's the real the real problem I think it also.
A point worth making is that pensions ignore.
The reality of the job market in America stay which is we don't stay at the same company for 25 years now I have been a force for twelve years that's an exception.
We move around a lot and so 41 -- to get to take the money with few verses having one pension -- one pension there.
And not having built up the tenure at a company to have to give that pension real value sell these these are are relics of another air.
-- Steve unless he got a friend in the White House like the UAW does you can't rely on any -- to be good forever.
No and that the companies that do have the traditional pensions.
-- dependent when they get in trouble on a government bailout from the pension guaranty corporation.
Which is also underfunded hugely in debt so 401 -- on the way to go what's there is what you get.
The fact that some people haven't done it doesn't mean you go back to the old pension plans which are all blowing up one of them blown up.
And for public sector that's works really needed and not one state.
Has mandated 41 K for new hires not won yet so -- aren't we all better off when we take control of our own lives and in this case -- pension.
It's got object -- -- as long -- that we think that people can find the sophistication investing so they don't make big mistakes.
I do have that concern though I have to tell you if if the if the services are out there to make sure that this -- is handled properly.
I don't mind if people take care of -- themselves but I am worried I am very worried.
That people are not gonna have enough money to invest in and we need to get wages up people aren't being paid enough for the hard work that they do and if they aren't.
And they're not going to be able to -- no money to retire team.
-- as a reason my wages have been stagnant since the seventies is because health care costs have been going up and health benefits to win.
To the compensation structure and employers.
But getting back to the issue at hand I mean look this really strained his left the security find.
When companies knicks their pensions but now the government is stepping in here and that's what's really scary.
People -- their hard earned dollars that they work for for the government to do this is really terrifying and really bad for the American.
And -- -- they -- we -- the president when he was campaigning promising that that nothing is more important than pension protection we ought to put that at the top of our priority list.
And now there is there's some evidence that in fact.
They were the ones responsible for getting rid of these pensions.
-- you gotta be careful they're looking for so much money because the Obama administration has expanded the size and spending of government to such a level.
They're looking for every nickel and dime they could find David.
Don't forget there were those whispers the Obama administration floated.
That they were -- -- somehow used some 401K money to buy treasury bonds to support -- huge spending ways.
We sort of a similar thing to President Clinton.
Floating the idea that they would have like a one -- tax on 401 case so we have to be very vigilant they keep the government's hands off of our private savings.
-- I remember very clearly when Enron happened a lot of those poor folks lost all of their pension all their savings that they -- in the country.
Company ever writes about the government's got -- -- -- on well when a government comes in -- does something in the long run we don't seem better off doing.
Let me come back to my -- point I'm pro choice I don't think we -- -- any mandates for or against traditional pensions.
For or against 41 case make -- be fully funded.
But the employee you're choose what to offer lets you slowly decide whether Watson was real plot is that the way to go.
Well any manager that chooses to have additional pension plan today start one should have their head examined and they should be thrown out.
Because it's a future liability and with interest rates where they are they bloated liabilities now because rates are low -- got a huge problem there.
Best thing is a 401K what's there is what you got Victoria -- we've been talking a lot about public sector pensions and about how a lot of promises were made.
That could not be fulfilled by politicians.
Is it virtually the same -- private sector pensions.
That -- have a private sectors the same issue in the sense that these investment managers assumed.
Nice high rates of return like 9%.
And in the past decade the returns and it'll flower and so now they're stuck this in the same issue of having underfunded -- and bill yes if we could say -- your your pension have to be funded.
That's sounds ideal but the reality is they can't predict future returns a stock -- Allen can't nobody is better and -- -- then -- Mac Freddie Mac what do you think he McNamee art should we be promising anything about future gains with a market that's -- as uncertain as this would know I think if anything can only -- -- promised maybe two or 3% unfortunately because we're in a -- crack up that may last for another decade or so but getting back initially had.
The irony is is that the administration.
Has been basically demonizing Mitt Romney is if he's gonna take a reduced pensions that there.
Not so there are also talking about the Democrats in congress to -- -- taxing 401 -- and that's another thing to worry about politicians and promises thank you gang coming up.
-- -- There -- collect the US is also getting closer to falling off a cliff a fiscal cliff.
So why somebody here saying bring it -- I'll flip side that is gonna stir things up big time -- next.
More calls to avoid that fiscal cliff before those massive tax hikes and spending cuts kick in January 1 but.
When -- national debt about to hit sixteen trillion dollars somewhat -- says bring the fiscal cliff aren't -- -- just one heck of a flip side explain.
All week we need to see this happen every two years we hear from Republicans and Democrats how they are going to be effective stewards of our money and cut spending yet every.
Year -- but -- US budget grows bigger and bigger.
I'm at this point we need to take control out of congress' hands and force major spending cuts it's gotta be in military it's gotta be entitlements everything it's got to force the alterations to make.
Big decisions which which they're unwilling to make on their own the fiscal -- -- -- that it's a shame that taxes will go up also.
But the spending cuts themselves will be a major economic stimulus here for -- limited capital back into the -- so doctor.
Steve let me make an analogy out of what John just said it's kind of like an alcoholic you have to hit rock bottom your face literally has to hit the pavement before you shaker and wake up and start to change your life.
-- the economy hit the pavement -- we went off that fiscal cliff.
Because -- first the spending cuts won't be real although hit the military but not much else and a tax cuts will be real when you punish -- taking success and productive working get less of them.
We should learn from Europe they're raising taxes but what good that's doing okay so.
It's the politicians Jack.
Here at -- saying but you know what I like John's point about the spending cuts and you know to your point about the alcoholic I mean.
What we're dealing with now is treating them at the same poison that they -- the night before with spending so the issue is is that.
We have basically business leaders saying confidence is that the worst in 25 years business and certainly is the worst in 25 years.
Maybe -- -- and if the business leaders see them bad DC doing something about.
-- -- out of control spending maybe they'll get more certain.
About it -- Victoria I I must -- -- like the dramatic aspect of John's argument the fact is that bad that would really shake us up and make us realize we have to change our ways but.
Yeah we are all gonna suffer as a result if that happens if taxes go up the economy slide even more than half.
Yeah a lot of I was reading analyst reports on this all week and every one is kind of make in the case this takes us anywhere from recession in 2013.
And also you know -- I I want to highlight the point of like hey it didn't we we have really low business confidence we need something to happen but this won't do the reverse.
It will show just how broke in our system is.
And what a lack of political well there is to do something that's positive for the economy -- mean the fact that we would come to this.
Is really tragic and I think -- and exactly the opposite message.
Rick what do you think about this obviously I love -- as much as the next -- it's grapevine but you know we can't let this this sliding not declare pap that's a terrible idea Steve Forbes is right but you know what.
What I do keep hearing my friends talk about are more and more cuts.
Yes we do have to make spending cuts and we need to make them -- all areas I'm glad that joint John.
Included the military the guys.
Nothing's getting done in less -- line balance.
John McCain well okay.
I'm cuts -- Tammy I must have been I get a little nervous when Steve and Rick -- both agree on something that however I gotta say it is the politicians.
That got us into this mess.
We the taxpayers shouldn't suffer as a result right.
I agree and I'm whiz Steve completely taxes are price and if you -- -- you're going to get less production.
But I think it's gotta be remembered -- government spending cuts.
They would boost the economy government is the burden on us when they spend they take limited capital from the private sector.
Major spending cuts would mitigate the impact of a slight tax increases -- The fact of the matter is you're not gonna get major spending cuts they always evaporated in the real world of politics may get a few but not much but tax increases -- should've learned from experience.
When they try to combine with the spending cuts.
Spending cuts never happened the tax increases.
Always do I felt -- happened with the Reagan yeah I hear you we have a very dim view of congress and justifiably so but we know we have got to hold sequestration cuts fight.
The Simpson bulls fight I -- mandates since the since some balls I hear what -- is saying we've got economy only growing -- 300 billion dollars annually.
Because people in the business world saying hey you know what is going on in DC if there is some action along cuts maybe -- -- -- -- say.
I still have what I -- more certainty about where the economy's headed up again Victoria instance these what we never see the cuts we always see these compromises where they joke you know we can't -- one dollar for every fifty cents or whatever that the cuts that would take place.
Gonna come cuts become a figment of our imagination and who is these aren't significant action in Washington it's that would make this happen it's in action it's an an inability to get to any sort of compromise appeared on an even more -- aren't going to why not you're talking about a bit more and actually we -- a big fight.
Last year about cuts we it's Simpson -- that the president's and yes -- and -- plan.
Is a way to go I say go for -- if you have all this -- -- -- -- candidate -- has -- the home going up and lets them play together.
-- that the whole point of elections to get a new consensus like Ronald Reagan got -- in the 1980 stern the American economy around.
We will get decisive action which not gonna do by crushing the American people with more tax our last word right -- got our criminal record no problem -- new bill would ban bosses from finding out about it for the cash -- says.
That would put our economy in the slammer that's.
At the bottom of the hour but.
First right here remember this.
Teachers do would be what they love it well that's -- holiday and I.
Have you ever listen and it's you just go to -- knowing what the pay scale this teachers go to knowing all that.
New Jersey governor Chris Christie no stranger to taking on teacher's unions.
But did his new compromise with a your show America how to upgrade all of our schools that's -- next.
Well just in time for new school year garden state governor Chris Christie finally signing a law reining in teacher tenure.
There's a compromise between unions Democrats and Republicans that it didn't give them everything you want to but.
Rick you say this is exactly the got to compromise our education system needs.
And so it's it's I was so pleased to see this and congratulations to Governor Christie to the teachers' union for everybody for figuring out this is the way.
We get things done in this country we compromised.
The big winners at the end of the day the kids we need to continue this across this country we need -- continue to work together this was a wonderful thing that happened this.
Steve you agree with -- -- the last segment what about this -- Not so much.
The the reason being yes Christie got something that would have been inconceivable two years ago so he has changed the environment.
But -- scale of -- wonder one -- about twenty.
There's a lot more of that has to be done it just it -- -- tenure for just one more year but you need charters and choice in the like to get real accountability.
So to step but.
That's all it is okay but Victoria you have to start someplace.
Better a first step the -- -- -- all right.
Yeah yeah I -- somewhere in the middle I guess it is the great it is a great sign and I think the dialogue in this country has really shifted in the past few years on education where -- Or actually prioritizing the children who go to our schools that's really stunning.
And we've also realize that ten -- kind an indefensible I mean.
Why does tenure exist why.
That the fact that you've been there for a few years guarantee you'll -- going forward it really puts.
Young teachers at a disadvantage so yes this is a great sign I do agree with Steve it with we need more accepting accepting view and policies -- on charter schools because those are gonna really change education our country.
Mike -- open it makes me a little nervous about this is that the unions were so Ruble was regarded S and of course they've they've spent their lifetime being opposed to changes continues.
-- does that make you nervous as well David unions won big here this wasn't a compromise I love governor Christine usually agree with what he does but the big -- -- out here.
I mean look what this does is it still fires teachers based on how seniority rather than whether or not they can teach the city like -- still gonna pay eight million dollars this year to keep you.
Bad teachers in a room and not pay them to not teach and where was our big education president mr.
He was cowering -- wouldn't stand and try to support Kristy here to get.
Tougher on teachers because the president is more concerned with pocketing money from the teachers union that he is that.
Okay Scott it's gone beyond what I thought about it I realize I mean -- good they're herb.
I think the Governor Christie should of uncompromising.
Only assisted on doctors and Detroit's that Steve is talking about.
Listen -- by the way vouchers would give you a percentage of the taxes did you pay for it for education allow you to getting that money as you want it -- -- -- -- imagine.
That every restaurant in this country were owned and operated by the Postal Service and imagine the service and and -- is -- -- is the solo shot is the solution to have a compromise.
-- the best streamlined way to get rid of the ten worst teachers.
-- -- is competition no monopoly we got to leave it without analogy folks at Thanksgiving are coming up price slide is just one of many stocks plummeting not a bad profit report but they are names that are bucking that trend.
We've got the names.
Got a pencil and paper ready.
You're gonna make money coming next.
And we're back with the companies -- -- money even in this soft economy.
60% vs last year -- -- like -- and boring plot line that's sucker rods Liz did you do better than.
All right you have a stock that I know I love they make beer yes the Budweiser people and global warming means we're gonna be drinking.
-- And that's a good now as an invite that this thing this stocks can have hangover will Aziz and buying -- the maker of Corona beer what -- Our -- although I do like corona that's different forms are -- actually watch severed right we can't keep it right here the number one business -- continues with Cheryl Casone an affectionate.
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