Weighing investigation of Kathleen Savio's death

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Former NYPD lieutenant commander in homicide detective -- -- former prosecutors.

Current defense attorneys Jeffrey gold -- Joey Jackson join us.

And you're gonna be surprise to -- two additional attorneys at this table on the defense team in the Drew Peterson case.

I'm gonna start with you guys here now.

-- you wrote the book practical homicide investigation and I got to get this out of the way here and that's fourth -- your book it's a Bible for homicide detective recognize that does this investigation.

Stink.

I'll actually hopefully I wish that I was the first responded why.

Well because from the get go they went in there with a preconceived notion that -- an accidental death.

And I personally believe based on my conversations with folks in Illinois state police as well as others.

That the lead investigative.

Was not qualified to conduct an investigation if.

Think he never did a homicide and that's.

Well it goes beyond that you know if some some wizard and the only state police decided to take -- cops and promotion electro social promotion -- put of the places they didn't belong.

You have to be qualified.

To conduct a homicide investigation this guy was not -- -- -- the crime scene person who is who is he could make a determination as to the -- of death or manner of death.

And and to call it an accident and tell him don't do not collect any evidence why would say -- I would say any investigator with the least motor promote common sense.

Would have seen that as a suspicious death death count in the courtroom common sense not -- it was a cop.

They were investigating a cop it was as if they went to its I stop somebody for speeding -- he flashed a bad to -- let him go but it was a homicide and they treated like a speeding professional I courtesy and they let that thing go -- is no professional courtesy for homicide I had you have kids about the and I wish I would -- -- -- -- and -- Illinois investigator may do a lot of bodies dropped off on 55 coming out about Chicago but he didn't do a lot of these this was ridiculous eighty point Jeff but ultimately what has happened is juries need evidence -- and if they can't produce the evidence because it's not there because police didn't do their job then why did you need.

Glad I -- but what isn't that the point.

Eight -- is didn't do their job and they weren't giving Andy that homicide away yes but now that the prosecution trying to backtrack to show how and what they've -- the bodies so doesn't that tell us.

What happened there was still tissue water body deep bruising down -- the -- all done.

I think if you look at the -- -- his testimony I think it's powerful and effective but remember he had to make certain admissions like what like the person who's deceased who ultimately did it is a very respected pathologist who happened to have opinions that differ.

I'm going I have to tell you something you didn't know that you weren't in the courtroom that pathologist never saw the picture that I saw in the courtroom that's how he's doing the -- without -- -- feet in the ninety degree angle up against the the war all.

She's really think she's like us aren't any words to the starting I had -- the other today there are lined up straight.

All right what are you want to say.

Defense attorneys.

-- that you know when he comes to the position of the -- that doesn't mean anything because when -- -- when the body settle and that's what I pathologists say as the body settles and rigor sets then.

That's why the post gotten away in that tub is not that small evidences from -- my friend.

-- -- current -- arms and legs go straight home that's what the muscles expand.

The -- let's play and that's why they go straight and then when that rigor goes out of her but nobody state plays her hair dry.

All right if she were in Iraq I learned my all day set her hair was right in the woods -- -- her hair would know when we damn there was never have -- and I'm.

Yeah why can't judge -- taken doctor flew doctor Blum was a very good witnessed and why you guys who agree when I thought I don't think -- defense and a great job on that that was a good -- -- but they haven't had many days.

It's almost impossible for you guys to lose.

This case is there's nothing to connect Drew Peterson -- -- -- -- -- -- -- I think there's nothing to connect my -- that but Jeff but Jeff Bakalar and that's not outcome determinative for the following pretty quick.

How many witnesses have you excluded over ten up and you know and so that's -- we're not having a search for truth because there are no witnesses well out.

Yeah ballroom all -- -- the ultimate -- about hey I had at all I want a fight no.

Here's the thing.

It's not a search for the truth because if you were you guys would what would put those people honestly don't -- -- -- -- but they're hearsay witness -- it's not a crap and you know what there's something called forfeiture by wrongdoing -- wipe your face -- a wise I think Al-Zawahri is here's okay the reason hearsay is admissible.

It's because if you commit a crime to prevent someone from -- -- fine.

You cannot benefit.

-- having done something wrong for example if you stop camping savvy -- from testifying at the divorce settlement you can't say.

Now everything she said doesn't and then because of your -- it comes ahead.

And if you stop Stacy Peterson from testifying that drew -- -- -- -- by murdering our then that comes into outs.

To judge and that's why comes down to interpretation of the jury even though Jeff the physical evidence is lacking if the jury believes some of the circumstantial evidence and it mounts and it melted it now to can be compelling enough for conviction what I -- -- wait and see is what the defense has lined up in terms of the experts because it'll come down to.

Got got a -- we have we have three experts who are going to testify that this and there are I am and an opinion.

Was an accident in all was all -- -- that -- -- top sink while they today we couldn't read exhume the body he wasn't charged -- two years we have a lot doctor Blum said that he reviewed their work.

And their work was good and it's just a matter of pinning great minds can disagree and that's what it's gonna come down to guys what do you think of the fact that the jury stressing like the little -- Yeah I don't know what I don't know what to make I really don't.

Know what to make -- that I think that this case is home free for gym fees and except for one thing that there could be a hung jury and you'll still -- jail unless one thing happens and that's and let's Drew Peterson decides to not listen to you and a thousand other lawyers and get up and -- if he doesn't he'll win his case but -- be a pariah -- don't sit in -- and hung jury until the next the only way that he will walk a truly free -- Is if he actually looks -- jury in the guy those that are wearing the same colors and -- -- -- he's trying to -- you -- Yeah I thought I.

-- OJ stand and then what did then OJ is locked up now he will never truly be a free man in less than.

Metals sector Elian but that aren't yet exactly that indeed he got away -- it -- bush spoke about the you'll get back with.

Let's get back to behavior right.

We wouldn't be having this discussion right now if Drew Peterson didn't put himself in that position by the way he behaved.

Psychopathic personality malignant officers and taken pictures of news media smiling making jokes -- his wife is missing.

Carry on the way he did.

Course the authorities to go back and look at Kathleen -- Leo and when they -- erupt in a exhume the body and they found with a homicide now -- back to.

-- we do.

Well back on top of the dishing up his next wife being message I mean you don't -- fourth -- heading off the only -- -- what that does things he would never be found.

That he put that act on here stating we'll never be found no she won't be -- at a top faculty you know this guy is a bully.

-- he's a kind of personnel in police departments and I've seen I've seen a lot of people we supposed to come at the police department and they use deposition in a manner that is.

Obviously not professional but more importantly to their advantage and he used his position to his advantage.

And your client and his worst enemy -- -- right now because anybody who watched him on national television said.

Drew Peterson did it.

I don't disagree with that I'm glad you're not on the jury because.

I regretted your company -- bottom line up on it's if the truth is that.

This was a homicide.

And not an accident.

Are you not argue in closing statement that if it is a homicide.

That someone other than -- did it.

Well we're never gonna give up that this was an this was an accident this is clearly -- the next the death -- still -- Jackson as -- and you don't point to someone else's possibly doing something to Kathleen in your -- statement you'd have to ask Joseph Lopes bill -- during the closing -- lab and I -- they'll be out at him and his wife and -- dress like okay yeah -- -- Chicago's I think -- a great job that's close coordination that's a defense attorney who cross examined a block.

-- -- Well.

-- the courtroom he's.

Ralph is a sweet guy and I like him but -- that but -- it brought.

Gaffes -- the jury in fact dole had at some point if the judge later who'd make your Nobel -- but the jury gaps when he asked a question to this eminently qualified.

County medical examiner -- done -- very respectable job in that courtroom and -- to answer every question.

And at certain point he said so that's your lame excuse full.

Eyes routes -- the -- you're welcome Ralph early get well Smart enough to be able to get -- -- case and let the fact that we had three experts.

He got -- on their case on the evidence that wasn't that was genius why isn't -- period and an all you guys are on the media all the time -- Basil says it's not ethical to do well I knew that there aren't these.

I expressed relaxed -- -- she -- to have that is not true you know what to learn that you have talked about that.

-- did get on water in the car right -- Democrats don't you would.

Three and that this jury is being prevented.

From hearing all of that they're being had a rebel from hearing in admissible evidence and in the missile evidence is inadmissible because it's not reliable.

They're hearing what's admit what's been filtered through the system.

To present to a jury which is only reliable evidence of -- the rules about you know this that's what the rules of evidence all for the filter out the unreliable and make sure that the jury only conviction requests.

Based upon reliable and.

All right you're happy with the swing objection hot it but of course they did so I'm happy but I'm not saying how I ruled out -- -- what I did you guys explain the bilateral.

Talks contusions in the -- under the clavicle.

-- they -- they close out don't let it go right to the ball ozark -- these films and it was on the ball with a hip injury but you're talking about the with the clavicle.

Those were artifacts.

From the autopsy because they were not on the -- they were underneath yet because she died right after that happy you know what I think it is.

I think he forced her head in the toilet.

And it was the rim of the toilet under the collar bone that gave that -- he forced her down so hard it's the ultimate degradation.

But anyway gentlemen I'll see you all.

In Chicago next week thankfully you -- -- -- well I don't told -- I couldn't tell all and tell your client that right and Steve Greenberg thanks guys lively discussion.

--

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Weighing investigation of Kathleen Savio's death

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