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We do have mr.
-- on the program not right now John fund -- this just a moment ago how you -- John.
By the book is book Kristol who's counting how fraught stirs in bureaucrats order vote.
At risk tonight the left for a reason last three weeks or run into John three times so.
He is a member of the Wall Street Journal's editorial board writes the paper's daily political diary in national -- columnist financial review on line.
What is voter fraud John -- -- find.
Well first of all I'm with national review now that's my main post -- voter fraud is very simple.
It's any thing that pimples out people's votes.
And basically disenfranchises.
Comes from people who are voting twice the comes from people reporting out of state.
It comes from people who were dead and someone is voting for them to comes from people who are non citizens.
It comes from people impersonating others comes from people throwing -- absentee ballots.
Edwards anything that is not a legitimate vote cast illegally is over -- You know that the Brennan center at NYU you know the US Irvine law professor.
Or hasten benefit -- and rather and you know that a number of other publications and experts have said.
-- really has been there have been so few prosecutions of this and even fewer convictions that it's not really an issue in this country.
Well they're simply wrong because first of all the studies that -- almost always referred to primarily the federal and state prosecutions.
We have 3156.
Counties in this country -- -- No one has properly gone through all of those counties to prevent the vast majority -- are prosecutions are let me just give you two examples of what's happened in the last week.
A Maryland congressional candidate nominee of their party.
Had to resign this past few days because she voted in both Florida.
And Maryland not once but several times she had to leave -- all -- Secondly.
Bill Clinton claimed that the Democratic Convention that this was all better vote suppression but -- -- before none of the podium there to say that.
The democratic state legislators homes in Arkansas that city councilman -- -- -- -- -- and a police official all but you can -- -- Just two examples and last week.
Those are two examples however why is -- that case -- says I have not found a single election over the past few decades in which impersonation fraud.
Have the slightest chance -- -- for the voter ID laws are looked into -- -- to attack or her dress and the slightest chance of changing an election.
Well first of all the voter ID laws with a few exceptions -- three things not just voter ID be addressed absentee ballot fraud which he acknowledges is a problem.
They addressed the voter registration rolls -- real problem the Pew Research Center.
Which is primarily -- liberal group balance.
So we have two million good people -- the voter registration rolls got a problem because if you vote in the name of the -- they're not likely to complain will never find out about it.
Certainly -- Pew Research Center Serbs.
One other big registrations in this country designer developer -- major -- -- potential for mr.
for problems are bureaucratic -- So voter ID yet.
They're not a lot of cases but you know what it's almost impossible to -- -- -- -- not -- That you -- and there are not a lot of cases you -- so many red states in particular spending so much time so much effort so much of their time and energy.
I tried to put in laws to stop something to which you just said there's not a lot of those -- -- There's not a lot of cases that have been discovered and prosecuted it doesn't it doesn't happen this is like an iceberg and I intense -- service one point about the circus.
But he'll -- three states -- -- Rhode Island RI protesting photo ID -- strict photo ID law.
And the sponsor was the only African American Democrat of the state senate the sponsor was because of the African American democratic speaker -- signed by an independent governor.
Kansas the majority of Democrats and kansans voted for a photo ID law.
New Hampshire and key Democrats provided the majority to override the governor's seat to in -- party this is not always.
-- voter IDs are not gonna stop the kind of fraud that.
Or is that is addressing -- kind of fraud that barely exist you're tuchman there on another front.
-- -- going to be there are three things these laws do with a couple of -- -- restatement haven't done that.
Papers -- a three legged stool voter IP.
Absentee ballots and cleaning up the voter registration rolls one out of -- registrations are invalid -- contained major event like his.
Photo I don't want to -- how does the need to get an ID and address absentee ballots.
-- there is fraught let me give an example current -- the attorney general of the United States of America.
-- live this increasingly watching for 32 years.
People -- supposedly with bill.
A twenty year old white hit -- hearing -- appeared walked into his precinct German -- democratic primary in Washington DC and that the governor folder on your list.
-- such and such after convincing with -- -- Thinking it was -- he didn't vote because that would be a -- It shows how easy it would be to -- for someone at the end of the day we you know they're not voting equipment district not voting and that type of election.
This happens over and over Kennedy.
But -- -- but again the kind of thing you're talking about time and time again is -- hit by experts saying is not really happening again.
But it just happened or documentation is as common as absentee ballot for the -- How does the order -- address absentee ballot for a -- repeating.
I'm not getting an answer but they went I don't know but our biggest car rental and other -- I got to take a break one addresses give you more time we get back -- -- -- against -- -- heartbreak here -- WD -- lines we take a quick break we'll be back with.
John fund his new book is out addressing the issue of voter ID.
And it is called who's counting would -- in a moment.
And -- -- we're talking -- John fund.
Whose new book is called who's counting up -- spirited bureaucrats put our vote at risk -- help me understand domain -- an understanding correctly.
Among the issues in voter fraud are.
Absentee ballots need a you know are you saying that the -- laws that they want to enact in -- states a voter ID laws don't address that particular issue.
-- let me make it very clear.
If a state passes just -- voter ID law and nothing else to improve our election system.
No cleanup of the voter registration rolls -- absentee ballot clean up.
I do not believe that the -- And I don't think that should happen -- -- that clear now Indiana for example did that and I spoke out against it.
Pennsylvania which is a piece that was structured this week in the U -- Supreme Court.
Has a three legged stool I talked about it does three things it says you have to have a voter ID.
By the way it will be free and will be big outreach efforts to anyone who doesn't have one.
It will clean up absentee ballot fraud.
And it will clean up the voter registration rolls until very recently Philadelphia that more people registered to vote -- adults -- -- -- VP.
That's called a clue that there might be -- so I believe we need to do all three things that wants -- we need our outreach efforts to make sure people get -- -- -- you don't believe that the voter -- I think they are incomplete insufficient.
Can they can be targeted.
And criticized as being having a partisan motive if you don't do all of it.
If you don't have isolation.
I don't want that.
I want all three -- between -- The Associated Press says.
That legitimate votes rejected by the laws.
That are now in play or more numerous.
Then those in the cases of fraud that the advocates the rules say they are -- towards more people are turned away.
Then actually are caught more legitimate voters are hurt then -- -- voters are bad actors are punished in situations like these laws.
-- in Georgia and Indiana in state after state the people challenging these laws could not come up with a single person.
Who was legitimately -- -- -- In Pennsylvania in the -- -- look at this just a couple weeks ago.
They were all voters -- -- forward that we won't be able to order this law he went through each of them and said look here's our you can vote.
Beaten trampled in the person who complained that she couldn't vote was -- -- rural -- that are personal.
It turns out the day after the judge's decision she went down the DMV daughter it was -- fifteen minutes but little wars were -- -- Anyone who doesn't have and I think he can vote absentee.
You don't have to show and I need to vote absentee you do have to give your Social Security -- drivers like number.
And let's -- you can't even -- the birth certificate.
Copy to get an idea -- that he should go to -- me a lot of affidavit affidavit says I have to work to get -- significant property.
Please count myself I didn't like Syria and it will -- to bail out at ninety.
You know that in Pennsylvania.
The minority leader of the house actually said this deters and said this time because he knew.
This is a state representative Michael deters excuse me a -- -- the passing of a voter ID law voter ID which is gonna allow governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania.
-- In state after state certainly Pennsylvania there -- have the minority leader in the house admitting this is about helping Mitt Romney win an election.
What first brought you the majority leader -- really -- and secondly.
I am not disputing that there aren't partisan motives for some of it -- estate taxes just the Porter -- the components without the other part.
I think that can be seen as having a partisan -- if -- doesn't -- just because something is partisan income combination of things doesn't make it about -- -- doesn't make it.
The Carnegie -- study found ten cases of in person voter impersonation fraud in more than a decade.
Ten cases -- it.
-- I said at the beginning of her conversation.
That was almost always just cover federal prosecution and -- -- prosecution we have 3156.
County are election Iraq the target level.
Almost every prosecution is done by the copies if you don't look at the track record you're not gonna have a real number.
In your book you also state that then Senator Obama appeared in March with members of the new Black Panther Party.
Actually -- not it's not in your book.
Not in my -- cute you know talk about that at all.
So little website that says that is not telling you I didn't look okay.
All right and apparently there's some in this information at their -- book then -- Shocked that there would be misinformation about my book -- some web part.
But never happened.
You know I never know of course that the average you talked about the new black Panthers and all in your book.
According to do -- the after party.
What the real problem -- it was a voter intimidation case in Pennsylvania.
And company they were standing around the community voters truly reflects the -- and there was a prosecution again and they didn't show up in court they were going to lose it and the problem with -- department almost completely dropped the case.
All right well the civil rights commissioner Arlen Melinda says that no citizen has ever alleged that he or she was intimidated from voting in that incident and that.
There were -- there was just nobody complained nobody said that they were prevented from voting by the new Black Panther Party in the cable news nets keep playing the same eighteen seconds.
Of these three people marching in front of a polling place but no voter claims he -- she was intimidated.
-- horrible with Robert -- -- campaign manager and who was publisher of the village voice.
Right I know he was all over the place -- -- about this at the time.
And he -- you've never -- -- take part like this in addition the majority of the United States Commission on Civil Rights issued a report saying the Justice Department improperly dropped this tree.
And it was an outrageous example of what -- tradition that was the.
Jordan -- citizens say they were intimidated nobody claimed intimidation.
The majority of the US Commission on Civil Rights -- even if you don't have.
People stepping forward and actually he's scared to come forward reporter you don't want this kind of behavior polling place.
But if you don't have a complaint.
If nobody is saying there intimidated and nobody is making that claim how do you play voter intimidation.
What if in the neighborhood -- competitor coming forward -- nobody has some of them come forward that is important and.
How do you prosecute voter intimidation if nobody is saying they're intimidated.
It is illegal to carry a weapon near -- polling place.
Regardless of whether anyone complains -- be illegal -- a weapon at a point play.
Well the cup commission a civil rights commissioner is the one who said the reason we didn't go Florida's biggest you know -- alleged.
Yeah security and -- commission disagreed with her -- disagreed with her don't you think it should be legal to carry weapons report.
I know I I would not have weapons and bars I wouldn't have weapons a lot of -- But but that's not bad -- but but but but carrying a weapon if if it's against the law to carry a weapon that's one thing but you're talking about another.
Local voter intimidation and that was never claimed so that's the kind of two different things if you want to make it illegally carrying unimpressed -- somebody for that.
Follow him but this is a claim a voter intimidation.
Even the Obama Justice Department even though they grow up most of the case -- agreed there was intimidation because we did tell.
One of the people involved not the others you cannot carry a weapon near polling place and you were sanctioned.
Well but they weren't going after -- -- carrying -- they're going -- them for termination right.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- All right so there's no we were you just said gun you just brought I don't like what I want.
So a -- a Billy club be illegal they're voting blends.
It's a weapon should tonight be illegal ocean at Le what you know what should you and I and -- -- devoted.
But reports that you agree -- -- -- -- you're telling me that the in the the prosecution was supposed to be because of voter intimidation if you wanna say it's because of carrying a weapon and enforce it on that level.
-- it was well it was both carry a weapon and it was water intrusion it was both.
Always play against -- or bacterial weapons because the very chat presence of a weapon intimidates people.
Well it's funny but nobody claimed but the point is nobody was -- no I -- to prosecute.
Aren't -- embarrassed him but wait you can't just presume that people might be scared and therefore we're gonna prosecute you you know other prosecutors not everything case unless they think they can win days you can't when he -- without a witness.
Probably want the case who bought the black panther -- -- contest.
The fact the government had they didn't content that they didn't show up in court.
-- -- you just said that that the Obama administration fell far on the job because he didn't prosecuted.
In the -- that -- -- so that was a prosecution.
But the Black Panther Party refused to show up that -- predicted it would take that loss to hate the black people didn't want -- Dropped the charges.
After they want to change.
It's it's fascinating to me that.
The case did not have a witness saying that they experience.
If anyone whenever and agree about this but like I I do featured coming Oregon.
The law ought to carry a weapon because the mere fact carry a weapon and -- people even if they don't complain that the federal law.
Will be right back.
Used to put the border attack I -- you do.
I appreciate you coming on the show John the book is called who's counting health fraud stirs and bureaucrats put our -- at risk.
-- certainly appreciate the debate John thank you for.
Hello -- we go there's always a pleasure -- with you because you're so forceful.
-- thank you very much we.
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