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Richard B. Sorensen on a newly revealed piece of papyrus offers fresh evidence that some early Christians believed Jesus was married
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Both cars are weighing in on a huge controversy coming out of Harvard Divinity School.
The discovery of an ancient piece of the pirates that supposedly it raises this prospect that Jesus was married.
Did he says have a wife.
Author Richard Sorenson is here to sort out the facts from the fiction.
His book unholy Grail -- an exit -- debunking Dan Brown's best -- over the Vinci code.
Richard joins me now his book is called -- holy Grail.
And he joins me now from Providence, Rhode Island welcome Richard.
Thank you -- thank you for having me on the show I really appreciate it.
A mobile is great to have -- years it would take on this papyrus.
That.
Was found -- that is being introduced from this Harvard professor.
Well there are some really serious issues -- it first of all there's a question of its authenticity.
But let's assume for a moment that is authentic and that it is actually coming from me for century -- -- whatever was actually written.
For the first question you have to ask is this is essentially Jesus Christ that's being discussed in the -- -- or is that some of the Jesus.
-- is -- referring to a literal way.
Or is -- like the bride of Christ the church yeah and then.
And then but look let's assume that that we're talking about the real Jesus and the guy was writing about a real -- let's assume that for a moment okay.
There's a couple other serious issues -- it with this.
The next problem is that Jesus spent a lot of time with his disciples.
During his period of ministry and there's no hint whatsoever.
Any record of his having a relationship with a with a woman either married or or sexual or anything like that.
That exists from that -- -- They'll tell -- somewhere there because -- -- things you said business loses the Jesus you know there isn't Jesus Christ or just another Jesus how common was the name of Jesus -- that ancient.
-- It was very common the name Jesus means Joseph -- saves himself.
It was a quite a common name there were a lot of people what that -- and so could have been another Jesus that was referred to.
Possibly.
I -- so you know but then again you know.
Doesn't prove anything OK let's just say that this is an ancient manuscript that is authentic.
That it is written revive the followers of Christ of Jesus you know other Christians.
Does -- prove anything.
Well -- as -- as but let me continue.
That there there is no evidence whatsoever from the original sources from the time of Christ or any of his followers are the people who wrote about him.
I -- the new customer otherwise that that anything like this existed.
Furthermore Jesus had some serious enemies that that the Jewish leaders we're totally against Jesus and that they could have easily.
Have in his trial that accused him of womanizing or having adultery or or what ever.
But they didn't they.
They couldn't they were having trouble coming up -- any charges against him.
And even after.
Jesus death and resurrection they -- you know use this as a way of getting back at the samples.
Who then you know promulgating christianity.
So.
The fact that there is no original sources from that time.
I think is very significant so tonight you have somebody that comes to a 300 years later.
And rates the fact that Jesus has a wife gets asked where this guy -- -- information from.
-- what does this thing -- let up yeah in what other things zealots to also isn't it true that some early Christians actually believed.
That Jesus had a wife and and this is just something that was out there mean we're so far removed from.
-- and found those hundreds of years ago that we don't understand the sort of a culture that was going on at that time.
There is not a documentary evidence whatsoever that Jesus had a white -- -- It doesn't is that it hasn't won a lot of speculation that did something.
Not -- believe that or are you saying that's a subversive information that got around.
Well there is a personally if understand that the mosque that's we're not Christians.
And traditional Christians they -- they had their own axe to grind.
Their own -- -- we'll take which is different than traditional christianity.
And I mean there is a statement for example on the gospel Fella.
And the gospel -- was written was -- Gnostic gospel.
Not not not and not written by -- written hundreds of years after Phillip died.
At the real -- -- and men and it there's a statement in there that did that Jesus loved Mary Magdalene more than the rest of the disciples.
And he would -- her and the other disciples objected to this this and why -- you love her more than knots and then.
But of course that raises the question that -- Jesus who actually married to Mary -- Why with these guys object to him kissing.
Her cry and also the -- so much talk about you mentioned before this that metaphorical understanding of the word wife because.
You know the church is also called the bride of Christ is that -- Is it it could it be this kind of reference that this piece of papers talking about.
That's correct in -- in the fragment is so small and so.
Harsh -- that it you know that you really there's really no context.
From what I've seen.
That will allow us to kind of make a definitive interpretation.
So we.
We really don't know having any and it ends up closer to because you're the one who sort of really got app for the Vinci code which claimed that the same thing basically that Jesus in -- -- Michael Moore married in the they have child and it created this -- some.
You know this whole you know intrigue kind of thing later -- in the registry but explain what do you think is at the bottom of this that you know we we -- immediately take this.
Piece of paper and then kind of jumped the conclusion about what this implies for christianity.
Well and as you as we all know there's a culture war going on and there are there are people who are Christians and who's who support that.
Us support christianity there's others who don't like Christian and they they don't want to believe in god and they attack it.
And they -- it in any way that they can and so this is simply -- by the way this is not a new thing either.
Going all the way back.
30308.
-- the doctrine was not as -- -- them and that was actually what what was the topic debated the council of nine C -- -- brown talked about in the Vinci code.
And there are only wrong by the way.
But they debated the -- Areas hit his idea was that Jesus was totally humans who was not divine at all.
And so they debated this issue with that at the console and -- decisively affirmed that the dual nature of crises both human and divine.
They actually came with a nice -- -- That many people still vote today.
About the divinity of Jesus and his human nature as well so.
So so again the controversy over that is nothing new.
So we should expect these sort of things to happen.
Well thank you so much Richard signs that your author of the book unholy Grail.
It's but what intrigues -- it out of things say they were not talking about with this whole.
This ancient papyrus -- that these of that paper that's been found -- I thank you so much for being with us on us spirited debate thank you.
Well thank you very much for him you're really appreciate it okay.
And then we'll be right that with more spirited debate right after this.
