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Hi welcome to -- country today wanna focus on anger in the Arab world it's history aimed at the United States and other western powers.
Where you want you to join the conversation to via live chat and Twitter south.
Send us your questions -- comments or read them on the air.
But first I want to go to Egypt where an American pastor and a seven Coptic Christians who made the movie the famous YouTube movie.
They're out to be tried for their insults Islam -- -- just following the story from Paris.
-- and what can you tell us.
Right now JT Egypt recording has issued an arrest warrant for these seven.
Coptic Christians and then also for this Florida pastor is largely -- is symbolic move because they're on the United States United States is again.
Actually write them for insulting Islam one of the persons that who have vastly -- he's obviously the film makers -- other Coptic Christians today.
That Florida pastor who -- also indicted by the Egyptian court the other situation that we have going on here.
Is -- you have the Egyptian courts are -- charging one local person here.
Mean Egypt for insulting Islam as it relates that film not only was he -- was also -- -- -- hours.
During the time that he wasn't going under arrest -- unclear -- the -- -- the arrest or was part.
Of the arrest process the main thing -- this really shows is not so much the indictments.
Themselves but the level to which the hardcore islamists have taken over Egypt over the past eighteen months.
Have gained significant influence here and how much the prosecutor's office for example is having.
To go ahead and he's -- and that's why we're seeing.
Indictments for insulting Islam the other in -- part it is on is going forward.
The other interesting thing about this going forward for the Islam is here.
Is how they're going to continue to try to exert their power as it comes to -- -- and it also is it results -- blind cleric who you might remember was the original.
Leader of the 1990s -- trades at about and it's another thing that they are pushing for an asking for one of the first things that president -- did.
As he came into office was push.
For blind cleric to be released and asked the United States -- that.
Again showing just how much influence they have gained over the past eighteen -- moving from what was a very moderate Arab country out of something.
Perhaps much more hard line and wouldn't even farther.
In that direction KT.
Thank you and I -- Leland better than Cairo with the latest.
-- indictments of the Coptic Christian and the American pastor over there insults to Islam.
I -- turn now we've gotten we've decided to talk about.
The Arab Spring why are we are where we are came -- player and we -- often reminded their country's leading expert on the topic.
-- Tom -- he's from the foundation of the defense of democracies.
And he wants to -- he -- -- some news about what has just happened.
With the narrative that all these attacks in the US embassies in Libya and an Egypt wall spontaneous.
Had nothing to do with terrorists.
They were all -- reaction to our YouTube video.
I just want to point out that eighteen months ago.
When the Arab Spring started what we never saw was burning -- the American flag and while we never saw was al-Qaeda.
-- you think al-Qaeda is backed.
Well I think that would happen yes -- -- relentless good evidence that al-Qaeda never really went away that al-Qaeda -- -- game plan all along and -- -- seizing the moment.
Man what we learned today from the National Counterterrorism Center the -- the National Counterterrorism Center is that -- now -- that in fact what happened in Libya was an organized terrorist attack.
And they believe that -- fact that it was orchestrated by al-Qaeda affiliated individuals.
OK and I got a question you know the great thing about the -- that we can people who are watching at home can ask questions for me to ask you.
I'm Tony has said are all -- half -- islamists aren't just exercising their right of free speech.
Why do they have to worry about anything other than that come to America you don't on the planet just yet.
Well I would say it's it's is what's going on here Susan there's a difference between.
Spontaneous protests exercising free speech I think what really kicked off for start of the September 11 events this year.
What would really kick this off was really an organized effort.
To protest the United States to really reading the narrative for -- Qaeda Qaeda affiliated parties I don't think it's it's an accident that Al qaeda's flag flying over embassies I think.
You know common sense tells us when you -- that perspective that you know maybe they have an idea your mind.
They're trying to show that their ideology and their organization is still alive.
OK you know we've been told that have been dead now we've got bin Laden the war on -- -- al-Qaeda is finished but the jurors are one of our guests said.
What would the response have began.
If it turns out that that the September 11 attacks.
Word during the Bush Administration would -- would we still retarded about bin Laden his dad al-Qaeda is finished.
What the bush administration and -- they.
Deeper understanding of the al-Qaeda -- to what you concentration showing us.
-- -- ministry she has basically said that because of some of mine is -- because they've killed several senior al-Qaeda leaders in Pakistan and elsewhere.
But that shows that the organization has been crippled and it's on this path to strategic defeat this the phrase that the president uses and other administration officials news.
I think that really shows and I need to take in terms of -- Qaeda evolved and -- -- it was built it's a much deeper robust organization.
It exists in numerous countries as we've seen Libyan now it's growing you know every day.
The fact there's a report in the Defense Department that was released in August which say that basically al-Qaeda is on the verge of forming a full plate fully formed.
-- -- affiliate in Libya.
And it basically they're just the last stages of that process did in April.
This to happen in a Libyan war when we got rid of Qaddafi.
Well it's tough to say any -- clearly was giving us and helping -- -- Qaeda and al-Qaeda -- -- that's for sure.
In fact that -- -- leaked cable from ambassador Stevens where he says that you know Qaddafi should be praised basically for the help he's giving us against al-Qaeda.
But when it came time Cristina show he has the -- -- -- there's basically decided to work with the rebels overthrow Gadhafi.
And the question becomes here if you want frankly to counter factual -- what if we hadn't helped them -- -- The problem is what what would al-Qaeda done anyway what they've grown anyway despite this the efforts -- today's -- -- Qaddafi I think what you're seeing is that they had an effort.
You know years ago to do this this and was an accelerated by the author -- -- and -- surely.
The bigger question in my mind is you know the Obama -- she approaches then -- from behind the site either by air cover for the rebels murders and -- now we're about it.
The problem with that approach which is this city approaching when Libya is it opened up this fact over the -- -- other actors to -- -- -- so without.
So we give these two full you can make the case -- were throwing -- okay frankly can't than just -- ground everybody and I walked -- -- and -- parents.
-- -- -- Well pat has a lot of teams are playing out saying I don't mean that in a friendly way to play these.
These -- political gains across the Middle East.
A lot of what we talk about his country's ability to hit us the ability right must we worry about it in the meantime is that where they got a black background paragraph and that's legitimate concern Bryant clearly -- is even since 2009 charges number of times.
The problem is that's not the only thing they're doing.
-- as they want to seize power in various countries they -- you -- when he used the politics and the instability of various countries to try to seize power.
To implement Sharia law across the Middle East to build their their dream of Islamic -- right now they're not anywhere near.
Resurrecting Islamic -- at that serve a -- -- outside.
But the problem is that's a very real dream for that that's a really very real goal and your plane is scheme across the greater Middle East and trying in service of where -- they get in my mind.
Well when you're expensive operations if you're -- -- worldwide organizations.
Again and whose -- they have a lot of wolf the ideological donors.
They have donors that are islamists that are you know people who are supposedly you know just well connected saudis people were well connected throughout the gulf region -- who.
Basically are ideologically in his play and are willing to fund this organization but they they've they raise funds -- to these criminal enterprises.
-- a -- contrary drug trafficking in southeast of the -- sort of things and ordered it to to raise money.
With our question here are are you aware of -- propaganda technique called a big lie I've never heard of that have you.
Surveys didn't think black think what they're referring to was the idea that you on the bigger the -- you tell.
The more you can get away -- that are that you know the more you can actually sell it because nobody would actually come up with such a big -- -- that this is just are -- just happen to believe -- -- -- -- -- -- Well I think al-Qaeda is gonna continue to sort of build up its presence in these countries I think in Libya there on the verge.
Announcing a presence according -- Defense Department right thinking other countries are on the front.
Announcing their presence what does that mean and I bring out there is a big -- -- it is in Yemen.
For now you're saying there's another one athletes offer up the Middle East Iran Iraq you know NC right now right -- burgeoning and again they've gotten more from the Middle East -- Sinai Egypt where did you Muslim -- governments freed all these al-Qaeda affiliated.
But terrorists imprisoned -- growing.
When I mean is that the Korean Defense Department I'll Qaeda basically puts its clandestine network in place in the country.
Build up its presence and want to get strong enough to really show related in -- they're they're.
They're convinced they're durable that they're not gonna go away just award to a home that's when they announce that they're basically al-Qaeda and that's what did you see coming in Libya you see this stage development where.
He's still Qaeda is building is -- of its clandestine network it's filled up its operations has built up al-Qaeda affiliated parties it's are now getting ready to -- itself as having a Libyan affiliate.
What about age.
-- their connection between the Muslim Brotherhood government in Egypt and that al-Qaeda.
Likely the Muslim Brotherhood is is very widely misunderstood in the US is a -- people convince themselves it's just a general survey guideline or reality Shaq doesn't Perez but -- That of course is not true I mean the islamists really al-Qaeda grew out of the Muslim Brotherhood wellspring.
I mean -- it's one of the many terrorist groups -- -- by Muslim Brotherhood ideologues who now is Mohamed -- in Egypt to see the equivalent of al-Qaeda not.
But the problem is seen you know he's called for the freedom of the blind -- you know he's freed a lot of terrorist from prison.
He's he's far more sympathetic -- their ideology their goals that he -- thoughts.
And the idea that somehow he's going to be able worker he's going to be this this -- we can work with against the more radicals I think -- -- Well Qaeda and got -- so far has really been an expert at glowing things -- killing people.
-- they get to the stage of taking hostages American hostages throughout the region.
On the ordinary do you take us is they have good evening one of things we saw just before the September 11 events this year.
Was it Ayman Al zawahiri the emir of al-Qaeda came out with a tape offering to exchange Warren Weinstein.
American captive in Pakistan.
Four the blind -- And the blind -- of course is this al-Qaeda affiliated.
Cleric who you know because of great prosecution work here in the US by any McCartney and others who is coming out a shot at trying to you know end up being put in prison you know and and the blind -- is still it'll tell you still rallying cry for the -- for the islamists.
He still is widely popular in a lot of what happened in Egypt by the way is connected to this moment to build agitation protests around the block the symbol -- blind -- Wouldn't really be right now -- instead of what we have -- four assassinated diplomats we had a hostage video -- for diplomats.
Blindfolded on their hands and knees in front of an al-Qaeda group ready for chapter itself.
Well I think you know the bottom line is that the video we have we have now is disturbing enough you know we've seen it basically they're able to raided an American Consulate -- minimal security.
And lacy stood for four hours yeah you know that was part of a big part -- we need her to Simon Willis is part of spontaneous protest it just happened.
You know these guys team in.
With heavy arms in direct direct fire and eighteen plant specific intelligence on the compounds and actually siege two Americans.
For four hours before -- will retake it.
That's it that complicated.
-- -- that's a very complicated assault with a lot of ramifications from her okay Tom just one.
Editor senior out of the long war journal Foundation for the Defense of Democracies and you have a new book coming out but not yet -- Yet immunize them always and -- go and tonight we Connie didn't learn more thank you so much for coming into the -- of the bad things and -- -- British take a break and then we're gonna come back into -- Jamie calendar month.
Come back to Defcon three word from taking a look at the Arab.
-- on spring eighteen months later what's going on in the Muslim world.
Today the first -- -- announces closing embassies in twenty countries and that's after a French satirical magazine published cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed.
Amy Kellogg is in London and she's got the latest Jamie.
-- KT well.
One of the -- Salazar and Egypt which isn't -- very important Islamic center has called.
The publication -- these cartoons spiteful -- -- -- I think is an interesting.
Way of putting it KT I don't I don't know how much we can Parse what that means but true realities being.
I think an interesting word to use in this incidents.
Otherwise we're hearing a lot of anger directed publication of these cartoons across the Muslim world.
But at least what we are hearing from various Muslim clerics and leaders in France and also from the Arab League is that while.
These cartoons are very just -- to the Islamic world.
If they're going to be any demonstrations they should be of a peaceful nature but the French authorities in the meantime it is not taking any chances and they have circled.
Charlie at -- this magazine that published the vulgar cartoons -- the cartoons that depicted the Prophet Mohammed.
And a rather unappealing light they've surrounded that building with riot police because there have been problems in the past in France is closing down schools embassy's cultural centers.
In twenty different countries just in case.
That there's any sort of violence aimed at its institutions abroad.
Charlie have -- is -- satirical weekly often described as an equal opportunity offender in other words.
It makes fun of a wide range of fates personalities sensitivities.
And it was firebombed last year after it published.
In addition guest edited by the Prophet Mohammed.
Mohamed called Sharia head down and -- magazine is basically talking about freedom of speech here and saying that those who might be offended by these cartoons need not read the magazine at all.
They say -- -- is not a weapon.
But a means of expression and French authorities are also defending freedom this feature but they are expressing concern about.
The magazine's judgment at this sensitive time saying it might just be throwing oil on fire and we heard from White House spokesman Jay Carney to.
I just recently saying that -- nothing justifies violence.
And they have to Charlie had -- has certainly has the right to publish whatever they want to publish.
But Jay Carney questioning.
The decision to publish right now now.
Charlie had also -- those Mohammed cartoons that were published in a Danish newspaper in 2005.
And that was another event of course that led to widespread and very violent protests across the Muslim world.
Now the protests across the Muslim world -- continuing because of something else this film called the innocence of Muslims.
And that has led to at least thirty deaths so far.
There's been a call for protests across France on Saturday that the French government is saying that they're not going to tolerate those protests in other words they won't be considered legal they won't get a license.
That's because they're protesting this film and Francis saying that that is not a matter that concerns France.
So that really is the bottom line the other thing that happened today in France -- today I want to point out as there was an explosion.
In a Kosher shop we've heard conflicting reports about how much damage was done.
Some reports saying four people were hurt our sources say one person was injured but some guys apparently ran into this Kosher shop in France.
Leaving a package behind that exploded it's not clear if this is related to all of the unrest connected to the film and the cartoons one Jewish.
Leader and friend said that he believes that it is linked but we simply don't know that.
But very tense times in France and we will be watching it closely from here across the channel KT.
-- Amy Kellogg in London reporting on the situation throughout Europe thanks -- What we had another day throughout the Middle East have anti American demonstrations.
And some twenty countries and we've also just heard that we've got problems in London.
And in France as well.
Will these demonstrations continue or will they continue to get more violent.
We've got to join us right now Andy McCarthy Andrew McCarthy he's.
I'm an author on these things he's also was the guy was the prosecuting attorney when not blind -- the first mastermind of the first.
-- transcend the center bombings.
Was accused him Andy McCarthy put him in jail -- remains today.
And you've got a book that's come out I think just pathetically.
Called the Arab Spring -- spring fever.
Tell me about.
You know I -- I think -- it wasn't my designed to -- it this way but it actually isn't so difficult orchestrated this way because I think.
What the book tries to address is the phenomenon we're seeing in the Middle East.
In a way that does not embrace the this fantasy version of an Arab Spring but actually tries to deal with the facts on the ground.
The most important of which is his -- in the Middle East and in particular.
The brand of Islam that is dominant in that -- world and it's you know it's always important preface this by saying there are many ways to interpret Islam.
And particularly when you get more remote from the cradle of Islam and it it it does tend to get more.
Moderate because it has to sort of make its way in places that are not.
-- -- -- -- But on islam's own home turf.
The ideology that is followed his Islamic supremacist and then we we seemed to have.
-- that reality.
So -- saying is that -- for forgot about the surge and wrong and eleven fees.
We can have Christian countries -- country's Islamic countries which are saying is their goal is an Islamic domination of the entire world correct.
While I'm that's not nonsense when they're just aggravates that and that's exactly what time -- -- he's looked at their back and I think we're at a Phillies it may sound alas Al qaeda's goal.
There's an establishment of -- that they you either convert to Islam -- you get killed.
Well you you make a great point though it's as silly as it may sound to us a lot of what we have been dismissive.
Is what sounds silly to us and unfortunately what I think we miss and that is that.
They regard themselves and for very good reason as a separate civilization it's a different way of looking at the world.
And that's why my concern about the Arab Spring and democracy promotion.
Has always been that we're kind of talking past each other when we talk about democracy were thinking about freedom.
Right and freedom in the western stress free dip -- right judiciary -- action as I point out in the book.
In the Islamic world.
He's an entirely different concept even have a different word for -- different.
Conceptual installation -- and -- Korea.
And their idea of freedom.
Is what they -- what's Islamic scholars through the centuries -- called perfect slavery.
It's total submission.
To the -- re a system which is sure -- being not only the Islamic legal system but the -- Basically all us framework.
For society for how human like -- to be -- and their idea of freedom.
Is the installation of the sure -- a system.
And then you totally give yourself over to it and that gives you freedom in the sense that they -- I don't resent decision to score well exactly right but.
If you think about it.
It intuitively it gets it it's really sort of the opposite of -- this is a man who's in charge of interpreting Sharia.
The -- -- state and the that you don't when the big debates in.
Between Shiites and and Sunnis and in particular between the Iranian model saying.
And -- Muslim Brotherhood model is whether the Clark should actually won.
Or believe people should run the government with the you know with the try and under the guidance I guess -- would say some of the -- but but -- the way.
The goal is to have a -- -- -- system and -- -- -- society did not looking for western.
It's never -- our government there and it's not that they don't understand it KT they have that they don't want that I netstat yeah.
-- part of the reason that they -- they have such a visceral reaction to -- is sometimes.
Because we we don't grasp.
That there were there a different way of looking at the world.
It's almost as if we're talking down to them and where we're sort of saying.
You know when you finally understand what we mean by freedom in the liberty that and then the flourishing of your society when you have these liberties.
That life will be so different and better for you -- and from their point of view is that it's not that we don't get it it's that we don't don't -- mindset right so Egypt had swear.
And it's ironic if he comes -- heard it becomes progressively more.
Islamists size which means progressively more waited too sure -- in this particular construction of -- which is.
Classical -- react by the way that -- that's available to people to to read and see what it is there's there's a manual that are right about the book called.
Reliance of the travel -- Which is actually endorsed in the manual by the scholars and Salazar from university.
And the Muslim Brotherhood stink tank and it lays out exactly it's -- How can I tell everybody needs to immediately go get the book by Andrew C McCarthy author of spring fever the illusion of Islamic democracy and then now understand what -- -- -- It's amounts thank you very much candy thanks it's a very pleasure thank you so much -- -- thanks.
Here is -- a great a break and then come back and have -- an interview with or Michael Howard.
No country for our last segment -- think I sat down with lord Michael Howard and his wife lady senator Howard.
-- Howard is the former British home secretary shadow foreign minister and the head of the Conservative Party.
He -- -- the ultimate British power couple he's one of the leading British political leaders and statesman she's a novelist who was at the White House for a private dinner with the Kennedy family.
During the Cuban missile crisis take a lesson.
When you look at the United States and you've been in the United States you've lived in the United States fifteen years ago when you look at the role appearances has in the world.
And particularly this whole notion of leadership.
We're debating and our own domestic political conversations.
What should America's role they should -- -- from behind -- -- -- from the front what are the greatest national security.
Issues the United States faces -- how do you see.
The world needs American leadership.
America is still the most powerful country with.
But it says complicated world.
And it's a dangerous world -- And leadership in this -- doesn't always mean doesn't often.
In pleasing one countries where.
It means working with other countries.
But always keeping at the forefront.
The need to make the world a safer place.
And it's a very dangerous weather department.
Explain that when I mean I think this -- you can look we just talked about the Cuban missile crisis that are going to be -- Warren Anderson it couldn't.
A man that was that that was the most dangerous moment in the Kubel.
But -- under the -- war.
It's that time of the code all the word was a much simpler place you had two big -- this.
They will in.
Sort of stand off with the job.
A theory -- -- -- mutually assured destruction.
Which in -- way the Cuban crisis proved that they were based in the end when it came to the crunch they've been stepped back from the brink.
It was a much simpler -- it's.
Than today's -- it which is much more complicated.
With -- lots of different power centers and look at some of the flash -- student.
Iran you know all about Iran in this country but if Iran gets nuclear weapons.
Saudi -- do we want nuclear weapons -- -- want nuclear weapons Egypt to -- nuclear weapons.
That region which is.
Terribly dangerous region anyway.
-- game to become just -- night so it's very important if we can stop Iran getting nuclear weapons that is done.
Pakistan already has nuclear weapons Pakistan.
Is a very French state.
In a very dangerous part of -- -- -- who knows what's gonna happen to Afghanistan after the troops come home and in 2040.
You have the rest of the Middle East who knows what's gonna happen as soon we didn't know what what the outcome and simply with a -- that's a very important country.
Which is growing in importance which is immense.
Economic importance to the wouldn't have -- -- problems.
And the future of China is far from certain far from clear.
Places to have him here that you have.
The American deficit which which I think is is the -- problem for the world economy.
Haven't even mentioned Europe but the Euro as it.
We have -- and you know we've got one presidential candidate from Romney talks about the greatest national security threat to the United States is.
Is the economy the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff admiral Mullen has -- -- the greatest threat.
How does that in in the world of geopolitics.
How does the country's economic situation.
Influence his leadership position that won't we when we in the west -- it's not just the United States are in an unsustainable.
-- -- -- For a standard of living that is far -- Then -- people in the developing -- in the east.
With paying for that highest standard of living by borrowed from them.
And -- can't go on forever it's not just the United States doing this didn't sound in my own country it's happened in the east European countries -- all of them.
And it can't go on -- it is not sustainable.
At some point these deficits have to be fixed.
My country my country's government and the David Cameron is making them really determined attempt to fix our -- don't DC can cause all sorts of really tough and painful decisions.
And at some point I think the United States -- have to make those decisions to.
You know that was not long ago there was.
Can't keep I think it was in the New York Times.
And -- -- And America that cropped area and side by side with the there was a Chinese submarine.
And captain in the Chinese submarines had to the captain of the American aircraft carrier surrender.
Or -- or you treasury -- This is you've got to pick a fight with your banker -- Hillary Clinton sent that.
Happens if we don't fix it you know when you talk about the western young European democracies United States where -- an unsustainable.
Economic situation what happens if we don't summon the political will to fix.
Then I think the world becomes very unstable.
I think the global economy will suffer very -- -- And -- the global economy suffer severely.
That means that security is effective team because if countries are in an economically perilous position.
Then they look prevention is.
They look further things to do to remedy the problems they have that -- the world becomes even more dangerous I think that is already he has.
When -- let's go back to the point that you said about the world and some more dangerous place.
What kinds of things could happen we've seen the Arab Spring that's good time.
Maybe maybe we get them out now we don't know what's gonna happen these countries we get it what's gonna happen in each of -- very very powerful and important.
Country and that part of the world -- and then -- what would happen.
If the wrong kind of people who gained influence and kind Pakistan.
Which already has nuclear weapons.
I've already talked about the problems that would occur if Iran gets nuclear weapons and the other countries in the Middle East which would then want them.
We didn't we didn't know how who solid China's future is and what might happen if there were problems in China.
You know we we read occasional reports of disturbances in some parts of China and China has has real problems of its -- Same everywhere you look into whether there are potential flash points.
And that's why I think we really need.
Choi learned -- -- leadership particularly from the United States.
But in partnership with other countries to try and -- a steady course.
Well your man who is -- at all in the last fifteen years and I think those are very wise words.
Thank you for your time nutrition.
And killer Michael Howard.
-- had just about every job and Great Britain other Graham chairman of the -- them.
Thank you so much.
I've got to tell you we have had -- live chat has been going crazy as has my Twitter account I just want to read a couple of the really great comments we've had.
While we've had our gas.
I'm Shannon says they can exercise freedom of speech all they want it's hurting or killing innocent people they don't believe the same thing that they do or using fear as a weapon to silence people.
With opinions are believed -- other than their own.
And Shannon says I don't know about anybody else but trying to silence my freedom of speech and religion by trying to make me afraid of you.
Just isn't gonna work it won't happen down here in Louisiana I love that comment.
All for jury says that some people -- Sharia.
But yet will file the ten commandments and in fact try to show the ten commandments stands somebody's throat.
I'm -- nurture says is Sharia law the moral equivalent of the mosaic law.
And one of the great comments was that Robert jury says we forget that the problem with democracy as you can't suppress.
The will of the majority of and the -- people have asked for an Islamic court and Islamic Sharia state.
If they didn't want -- they wouldn't have voted for it.
And that may be one of the reasons -- -- -- -- -- spread the Middle East.
Well you've come we come at the end of this whirlwind tour of the flash -- around the planet mostly in the Middle East.
And I thank you for joining -- discussions with your very good questions and comments.
But national security crisis are known are gonna continue for for the next seven days and tell Defcon three returns next Wednesday at 2 PM eastern.
You're on your -- trying to figure them out.
And foxnews.com -- resume -- -- tomorrow morning at 11 AM eastern.
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