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Was the -- president Obama's schedule now to meet with business leaders -- -- the White House to talk about budget cut the budget cuts and tax hikes it's all part of his plan to help avoid the fiscal cliff.
But in the last 24 hours we have reports in two different studies one by Ernst and young the other by the Congressional Budget Office that predict that raising tax rates.
You and the wealthy.
Would hurt the economy.
Joining me now Charles -- -- at W history dot com.
And -- Fox Business contributor Simon constable a columnist the Wall Street Journal and author of the Wall Street Journal guide to the fifty economic indicators that really matter.
And -- to Paris is back with a still comes for the Daily Beast and Fox News contributor.
Are right Charles so -- who put that together -- rich people don't like -- -- except that it.
Today listen they're the cause of everything.
The -- emits -- able to get the climate change question.
You know realistically.
It I think the question is a lot of people resigned themselves -- the idea that taxes are gonna go up.
The real thing is how do you define rich I think this is really the big sticking point is where I have a big problem because 250000.
Certainly is not the real definition of rich and certainly not that -- -- and the average American family who gets to that point.
Should be punished for all the work that they put -- end and also the president continues that this Smith's.
Small businesses saying well only 3% are going to be hit with this well.
That's the 3% that generates 50% of the profits 40% of its operation from October of last year to October this year companies will less than fifty employees generated 700000 jobs.
It's just dangerous to go after those people maybe they move the bar -- two different definition of rich we can get to that compromise he says he's looking for.
It's sad when you think about that but it's not self destructive I mean you know if he doesn't want to ruin.
Forget you know hit he doesn't have to be reelected but the but the chances of his party if he really believed that those 3% of businesses that create 40% of the jobs.
Are gonna take a serious hit and start firing people he raises their taxes would he do it.
Well he's got to believe it suited to not do it to and I don't have any necessary believes that there are a lot of views now that at some people really don't believe -- wolf the war what is considered to be a small increase in taxes will lastly to operation.
I think it well and the people like talk to bring you well and particularly on this -- business of the if you increase the rate.
A tax the tax write that actually changes how you decide whether they would invest in a new plants -- -- -- something like -- make a big difference even if your company.
And never pay taxes in the last ten years if the tax rate is stiff run.
As an analyst -- -- -- forced to use what about tax -- is when you protect those profits even if you don't think -- in -- Fannie tax.
-- -- can be the difference between a factory that works.
And it's -- a woman isn't not sound strange that's just the way it.
Yeah that's like some Republicans are saying maybe we will eliminate some loopholes but don't don't tax don't increase the rates you know -- thirty -- to whatever present.
Thorny key -- spot on this and I am also talking about exactly how much -- taxes are going to go up even appear middle class if we go -- this fiscal cliff.
And I'll leave you this to -- during the break.
He cares -- -- I plan that's.
We'll be right back at the picnic with the all right back now with Charles Payne Simon possible -- to power so.
A -- their rates for the middle class as we go off the fiscal cliff they're gonna go up from if you make between 70000 -- 142000 you're gonna go from 25% tax rate from the -- to 28%.
If you're rich you get over 250 gonna go from a 35% tax rate to a 39 point 6% tax Rangers and president -- says that's what you paid under President Clinton.
Right well I think that that.
That's the basic argument that this is the tax rate that we had before the economy did very well under it.
And I think what you you brought -- before Megan what was the point I was gonna make is that.
You know Barack Obama has no and just destroying the US economy he does not.
You know believe that that raising tax rates on people.
-- making more than 250000 dollars is gonna harm the economy I tend to agree with -- -- different studies that show.
Different things I do think on the small business issue is possible maybe.
Then they wouldn't meet some sort of -- maybe there -- be a carve out for the two to 3% of small businesses that make over 250000 dollars people need to remember that right now everyone sort of in their corners -- in -- starting points and they're starting to negotiate we don't know.
Who's gonna give on what.
But the more the car about Charles -- a less meaningful at all as a mean you know Lou Dobbs is on before saying people are gonna have to get real we're gonna need revenue and -- spending cuts.
You know why what is the argument for not taking us back to the tax rates we had under President Clinton.
And I today you would have to be you know go back and say on -- Clinton.
You know a lot of things -- sacrifice that this president would want to sacrifice infrastructure spending.
A lot of people say Bill Clinton got -- the military and of course he had a multi trillion dollar stock market bubble that was pretty nice way to ride so you know you can question -- -- then.
You know here's and here's the thing.
Investments are slowing in this country dramatically and this is what we need to spur us you can sort of dismantled what we've built and -- and say listen let's did it all up.
But that doesn't spur of the future and I think that's what I'm worried about a lot of other people.
Simon and -- last -- People are strapped for cash already specially in the middle class -- you tax them more of a going to be more strapped and that is gonna spend -- -- already -- small business that's.
You gotta think about no class folks losing tax that you would pay more in taxes if we got the fiscal -- but potentially losing jobs.
If you pinch run rich right if you believe that's what's gonna happen what at what a mess.
Glad glad it's somebody else's problem that oh wait no it isn't now I think you also live scarcity if you had a lady and we will be going back --
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