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Unions putting self interest ahead of US economy?

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    Battle erupts between Walmart, unions over 'Black Thursday'

  • Duration 8:38
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Battle as erupted between big labor and the nation's biggest private employer over black Thursday -- unions urging on Wal-Mart workers to walk out over the retailer's plan to open its stores on Thanksgiving Day and some -- say.

It could end up leaving holiday shoppers in the lurch and keep our economy in the ditch are they right.

Hi everybody I'm David has read welcome to Forbes on FOX let's go all this win.

Steve forbes' Elizabeth MacDonald -- Unger Victoria -- John -- and Morgan -- good to have you all here so Steve unions sporting very self interest at a shoppers and our economy.

Oh absolutely David there's still angry they haven't organize Wal-Mart yet.

-- responding to competition Wal-Mart responding to the needs of customers after exposed to do in a free market known forces people who work at Wal-Mart.

So what serving customers -- don't like the fact they haven't organize Wal-Mart.

And Rick younger these folks are getting paid overtime for working on Thursday right yeah let's let's keep my -- this -- about it's really a one day event so it's probably fair to characterize it as a protest a little bit more than strike.

Not about wages not about benefits.

About working conditions mostly in inland California area where they've had big problems of people working in way -- -- that warehouses.

Equipment that's not safe this is really what this is -- -- they've got a problem there and this is what they're trying but.

-- what they unions are doing and again to Wal-Mart is not unionized but the unions want the Wal-Mart workers to walk out they're focusing on this extra work that they have to do on Thanksgiving pay for which by the way they're paid double time to get all sorts of bonuses yet.

-- wal -- facing a number of protests across the country not just for overtime there's been a push to unionized.

Wal-Mart -- -- real issue with is that Wal-Mart hires a lot of people from the grocery industry where they actually get paid less they get less in the way of health benefits.

And that's why you saw Pathmark in grand union go out of business or Winn-Dixie or Ames because they were running their business models right and their employers are actually -- served by them.

And employees who were served by those guys and Wal-Mart serves there and employees -- that's a must advocate for Wal-Mart either way it's going to be a pipe dream to -- and unionized.

Wal-Mart because you have to do from -- store that's a big hurdle Morgan the point is is at times are tough and when times are tough you have to do things you have to work overtime sometimes you have to work.

On holidays in order to get that extra pay you need whether you're worker or the company right.

But -- of the matter is unions wouldn't be there there wasn't -- demand for the unions I think this is about American workers -- touched on it I'm gonna jump right on that.

Wal-Mart for years has been rife wind labor allegations a recent example out in Illinois -- warehouse where workers filed charges.

On sexual harassment poor working conditions unpaid wages.

This is an issue we've heard about these allegations we've heard about three years I think this is just and benefits manifestation of that at a time where it's going to make it that's -- -- The giants -- -- lot of other companies are doing this at Toys 'R' Us is opening the same time on Thanksgiving Sears opening same time on thanks -- 8 PM.

Target is opening a little later not -- They need to do this in order -- end the revenue I mean these are companies that are hurting right.

He had been business or business for profit to hear Morgan and Ricky -- that Wal-Mart were exploiting its employees but the reality is every time -- Wal-Mart opens.

If what that there are big big lines of people wiser I work there are so I think it's the opposite foot of what they say.

They're getting paid double time and I think this is just an example of unions were increasingly are irrelevant in the private sector looking for attention on the day which we'll get it.

And Victoria what are what are you wanna do I mean it to folks who were against what Wal-Mart is do -- -- they want to outlaw working on holidays.

I like giving it sounds awful I think shopping on Thanksgiving -- an evening of Thanksgiving sounds awful but.

That's our -- I sometimes you have to do -- -- ordered it lands right in Vienna Hollywood have some apple pie and say you know -- -- -- you know the issue here is that we have -- we have an awful labor market so although these workers may be offered.

Bonus times double pay.

There's not a lot of choice in the labor market so they might not be forced to do this but essentially they are because they can't get jobs elsewhere.

Which that's that's the real -- here and that's why the unions are you know getting it but I -- about potentially getting I don't.

-- -- the point the point is is that what do we wanna do about this I mean do we -- -- become like France it has all these these laws that prohibit what companies can and cannot do.

Where -- workforce we see how that's turning out in Europe.

Yet David unless you want to outlaw doing commerce on Thanksgiving -- store wants to open early because customers like to get their eight instead of midnight at 2 AM in the morning let them do what you're serving the needs of other people.

That's how you stay in business in this economy is tight it's getting tighter.

So stores are gonna try to get as much they can encourage much commerce -- they can so why not let her do what -- on America's I wanna read the wal mart's statement they have addressed this they say this is just another exaggerated publicity campaign aimed at generating headlines to mislead our customers & Associates.

We have more than a million associates working throughout the holiday weekend and they're excited about -- Black Friday plans.

This is the Super Bowl for retailers and we are ready again -- we don't like to work on Thanksgiving but sometimes we have to work -- thanks.

Yeah it it's not about working on Thanksgiving that's what they say here is that they -- -- and it's just a matter is all you have to look at is the fact that it's Wal-Mart employees that are a batter walking out it's not happening in other big box retailers like I am -- -- I don't I don't think.

-- retails sales were down in October they have to do something to increase the bottom line guys yeah that is the point.

And then they're using them Thanksgiving work hours as an excuse to protest that the fact.

And listen -- -- -- union and the unions are let's grocery stores were unionized remember that grocery stores are unionized remember that and they.

The workers went from there to Wal-Mart to get better pay and benefits also we saw this with hostess and -- going bankrupt the unions protesting there.

And wasn't going to be next to getting unionized Coles or target that's of the union rules.

That was Bob and Greg sometimes the unions in many I have met and they they say that they have the best interest of the workers in -- but sometimes it leads to closing the company look what happened and hostess look what happened and American Airlines where they union protests led to the companies either shutting -- going to -- for example let's talk about -- guys this is on this direction.

No sales associates at Wal-Mart.

Are going out on strike period and then -- the way we can't wait until the so you tell -- parents and then lover I'm not right yeah all -- Ranariddh doesn't try.

The fact of the matter where headlines so they're not there and doesn't protests across the country in strikes breaking out there -- -- not work there -- struck out looking down on meet the warehouse union the -- now have you -- you weren't in the Wal-Mart has said to fox business and -- magazine there had been unionize -- since 1997.

Going on across the country and they rented a tent that we're talking about one hole probably got a -- out of this year and a.

And go to John Jay and he's sitting there are quietly are charged in studio -- -- -- Or if you want to make it worse for workers make it more difficult for businesses to do what's profitable and that includes working on holidays.

That will drive down wages and make us worse off let let businesses alone let them do what they want Morgan.

It's not about working on holidays -- granted it's not about profits either because Wal-Mart brings in more than sixteen billion dollars a year profits.

This is about labor conditions -- I don't -- -- video.

You know Morgan makes a good point Wal-Mart just announced great profits and I hate to say but this simply looks bad for Wal-Mart.

It it it just looks bad and they need to address their labor conditions across -- they've gotten they've got a lot better about -- I know I know Liz you.

You already had grown back by the way it may look best in the league all star Victoria but I tell you shoppers love this a particularly the sales that they're having their revenues one -- sales which they practically gives stuff away.

Personal arsenal -- a second shoppers we love this stuff and -- Wal-Mart is competing heavily against the Internet isn't that what this is mostly about Victoria.

Fiat -- and that's a great point David but Wal-Mart is also on the Internet so they need to have definitely improved their strategy there and they won't know until it's later like new -- Jesus -- Wal-Mart all Italy's coast -- it is like Burlington from out what's loves it because it turns into a shopping -- And created economic growth as a battered regions and -- again it's the poor people that usually benefit the most from these sales we got to keep that in mind thank you folks appreciate it coming up next.

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