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Says the political side about it -- what that's that's in the fiscal cliff in the economy you know American businesses are already apparently bracing.
For what's coming next according to the Wall Street Journal firms are cutting investment.
By the most that we've seen since the -- shot recession of 2008.
And -- -- the fiscal cliff is one factor it's not the only factor.
And that's -- -- -- talk more about this with Charles and CE OW thestreet.com and Fox Business Network contributor and Peter Murray sees the economist and professor.
At the University of Maryland so Charles not the only factor at the fiscal cliff that what else is -- -- Well let's face it -- we've got a very anemic economy you know going back to last year when there were great fears about a double dip recession.
We sorted cheered when it didn't happen but we also have to realize -- the living in -- World War II percent growth.
Has been great obviously we know that that's not great -- we know that's not the kind of brought -- -- gonna commit literally billions of dollars in you're gonna hire people on there the assumption.
That maybe things will simply get better so we've seen this coming for very long time.
Announced layoffs have actually begun to increase capital spending everyone sort of hold back -- mostly looks like companies.
Are spending their money or using their -- that they have on buybacks and raising dividends but to intimidated by the rhetoric.
The new the new rules -- regulations and of course some of the other factors from the administration.
Last year and the year before -- not to not to mention of course of fiscal cliff looming.
I think Peter is that in an -- self regardless of of the politicians -- a NAFTA put it back into recession.
Oh absolutely you know the politicians cut a deal by raising taxes and cutting spending.
So that we take about 300 billion dollars out of the economy at a time when consumer spending has slowed a bit.
Business spending is actually going negative there -- layoffs on the wing.
I -- all those things come together conditions in Europe.
Yes I mean that's enough to put -- -- -- recession the fiscal clip which certainly do it.
But the solution that coming up with this fairly threatening.
The whole idea raising taxes at a time like this is ludicrous her presidential I says -- understands and appreciates stimulus this sounds like it irrational act.
Well you are very optimistic as well on your editorial Peter entitled off the fiscal cliff and into -- -- best.
That is published today we -- the president's argument he says listen if we don't get taxes from the wealthy if we don't raise taxes raise revenue that -- It's simply not enough.
-- -- cover our debt and deficit I guess think the broader question is Peter are we concentrating -- -- all of us.
On growth growth policies whenever those are and whatever the philosophy is behind that.
Absolutely not the president understand some of the reasons why we're not growing.
You know any originally -- is that we -- to do something about the trade deficit with China.
And over and over again he has said on the side you know did the the Chinese -- the back overvalued currency undervalued currency.
It's keeping us from growing by making their products cheap on American shelves and forcing out our products there's the issue of the banks -- not lending money.
Bernanke in his speech last week talked about that you know you could put all the liquidity in the world on their bucks but if they won't lend out money to small businesses.
They can't create jobs these are real structural problems that have not been addressed.
And finally it is all that oil we can be producing instead of importing which would create millions of jobs.
Despite all of this Charles -- something interesting that we see.
That consumers feel differently than company's consumer confidence is -- a five year high consumers are spending in -- -- companies are saying.
That they're not so.
And you know it in -- -- that is shifting and changing -- the American consumer save this economy simply by being optimistic and simply by.
Keeping that that money going into the economy -- -- You know -- we know consumer spending -- you know those -- percent in the economy but you know I I it's interesting what consumers us using their money for these days it's sort of like I call the drop out nation.
You know we're spending for good time to liquidity but we don't put away any money these days for savings for college or for home -- to kind of things that long term.
Really drive an economy and impairments in small businesses.
The president is really -- about this when he talks about only 3% the same 3% to generate big numbers senator profits and 40% at a job did you take and company it's less than fifty employees from October -- in October this year.
They generated 713.
There in the exact bullseye of all the listening gonna have to pay obamacare taxes if you go -- with people the importance and you know had on this tax it's not it is suicide.
At least I did it despite anything that happens over the next couple -- -- final answer from both -- you Charles you first and Peter you get the last word.
Are you both expecting a recession here in the United States in the next year -- -- Maybe periodic recessions I do want to point out -- quick -- though anyone I think you're gonna pull off a clip overnight doesn't understand how great this economy is in fact for some.
All the socialism type experiment might actually still good because look how long -- was able to go with this sort of nonsense but believe it or not the seeds are there.
And they're growing for destruction -- Yeah I think that if we do have a recession.
Then we're gonna go down for a long time because -- already -- close to 8% unemployment if we have a recession we're going to be looking at twelve or thirteen.
Once you get to that kind of level it's hard to resuscitate the economy even with stimulus spending.
And -- votes.
Basically the preconditions for a sort of a mild depression that is a long period of high unemployment.
Peter and Charles nice to species I guess cut today now have a Thanksgiving at having Jimmy -- on manhunt yesterday.
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