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Good morning welcome back to political insiders I'm probably -- here with Doug shown and today the wonderful Ed Rollins longtime political insider campaign -- -- keep.
Has to -- with.
-- happy to have you always and thank you for coming ahead and we have a lot to talk about today we thought we'd open up with the issue of the politics behind.
About the talking points.
The Ben Ghazi thing which is again bubbling up was on the talk shows yesterday.
And the different intelligence chiefs of the house and senate saying whether or not they're gonna investigate.
Information about al-Qaeda in the talking points now.
Is this a big deal.
Yeah I think it could be a big -- look the Democrats.
Bottom line are trying to turn this into a bureaucratic snafus.
A case of you know sort of editing.
In the editorial editorial role -- anyone pedal bottom whatever is trying to keep it away from the White House now we all know.
-- knows I think you know John.
That first people don't go on talk shows Sunday morning certainly not five without the express explicit.
Design of the White House second.
And equally important nobody goes on one of those talk shows I didn't go on I suspect did you didn't go on with out again.
Explicit talking points from the White House -- the -- for understanding he's you say.
What they told you -- and only and only what they say now here's the real problem.
Complex political and I'm very anxious to John in yours and -- -- you have Obama.
Allegedly -- in the Candy Crowley in the second debate.
That he said it was a terrorist.
Attack couldn't -- -- -- terror -- act of terror I misspoke in the Rose Garden that I expect.
For five days later on the five Sunday shows.
Susan Rice says it was the film.
And then they carry on the film narrative for awhile.
And then it morphs into -- was an act of terror and meanwhile you have David Petraeus on Friday.
But apparently saying two -- and closed door session first that he knew all along it was an act of terror.
That Susan Rice is a good and noble public -- I don't know how you.
Clarify that in a way that has a consistent narrative but to me that's a problem and it's a problem that's not going away -- act.
I think -- -- -- serious problem is you know we created after 9/11.
This super intelligence eleven agencies at all do all the intelligence the vast majority of them are.
-- defense oriented.
And in the trees that matters what they should have done the streets of the CIA.
As opposed to creating a national intelligence.
And the the -- to me was when one of the first directors of the national intelligence decide he'd rather go back either deputy secretary of state is secondary role.
And stay there minimize my sense is the key thing was to get the FBI and the CIA talking to each other.
-- some of the other intelligence agencies obviously is a miscommunication here obviously whatever the CIA basically passed on.
Should've been the final say to the White House to the president.
As -- would've been in the old days.
Someone someone obviously altered that documentaries they Alter that document is that they want to pretend that al-Qaeda is no longer a factor and and obviously they're getting stronger by the day.
The principles that we started off with a 9/11 may not still be there.
And may be dead and gone but unfortunately it's like it's like a bad a bad week they keep coming up and coming up -- Let -- when when this took place September 11.
We are seven weeks before the election it was still close in the polls than it was always close in the polls was gonna get closer when the debates can.
But they didn't know that -- And it was the anniversary obviously of 9/11 and suddenly al-Qaeda disappears from Petraeus is talking points so we get to the issue of blue -- moved it from Susan Rice is talking points -- put up our intelligence flow chart.
And let's discuss -- -- hold on for a second if -- -- the obviously of the president.
And directly report in hand who is right down the hall Tom O'Donnell -- national security advisors in -- out with a president all day and night long.
James clapper is not in the building he's in another building.
Reporting to Don Juan and Petraeus as head of the CIA reports to clapper and by the way in the Petraeus sex scandal.
We know that Petraeus wants.
He had admitted to doing those he admitted it to clapper.
And clapper then went to the White House and told him about that's the chain of command but the Tom -- -- the one we want to focus on.
Because both you guys know him and pat has dealt with them as Doug -- in democratic politics for many years.
And he is sort of known informally around Washington as the leaker in chief in this admin as.
-- any -- everybody is another way to think about this that reaches the same conclusion and I'm really curious your reaction.
Donnelly had been political and -- the national security advisor.
The idea that Susan Rice the UN ambassador who reports to -- right.
Would go forward with talking points -- Don -- had not that it.
As part of the process of me you would want -- this is not even leaking this is what you would expect.
Is that the national security advisor would -- talking points particularly when that national security advisor has a long political history.
And is responsible for what said.
-- game than any other.
There's no other way and here's how these shows work -- not that they they basically say they say wanna big guest.
They put invitations out just administration person administration decides -- they're gonna put on the year.
That weekend whether it's -- secretary state -- the national news security advisor or that the UN ambassador.
The ambassador was kind of a strange choice but I think what they wanted to do was to get some distance that you wanna put.
This Clinton on the -- -- -- Donald doesn't go on very often.
And they want to push it out a little bit and they clearly gave of the talking points of the talking points.
Where would they were willing to give to the public and obviously they were altered from the CIA directors.
Original of the CIA's intelligence group.
And now we have over the weekend Don -- deputy Ben Rhodes who's traveling with the president I think and Asia.
Saying on Saturday the White House did not Alter the talking points other than one phrase about the consulate.
Calling it a diplomatic compound instead of console that there was nothing else removed or tampered with that's what he's -- -- Now there's one other point which I think bears mention.
Assertion in the press conference.
That if you wanna take on Susan Rice picked me -- Says two things -- first the president understands her vulnerability.
Second he wants to make of secretary of state of the -- but second.
He's basically acknowledging I think it had -- way.
What we have all been saying which is.
Of course it was awesome wasn't hurt it was us don't blame her -- -- the script right -- come after me if you want run just reelected there's nothing you can do.
Right and you can't prove it and what I think he had that say you know an equally as important and Allen now.
-- events overtake is important as Republicans think this is I think it is important country.
I think it's important because it was a major intelligence breakdown there and it at the reporting didn't go to the president.
Then there's really -- you gotta be the first one -- investigating this thing.
It at the end of the day.
You know we've got potential war in the Middle East and it's far more significant than anything else right now.
You're getting -- holiday period job is dead period.
And in my senses.
This thing done -- -- -- shortly.
Let you know.
Some of the let me just pick up on what -- just -- -- because it's the key to the whole thing.
And said my sense is that this will be -- and go away short.
That is the White House's hope hope and expectation.
And they may be right.
Now I was.
Intrigue that this story was picked up on morning Joseph this morning.
You know Joseph -- rose said there's a real issue here.
Andrea Mitchell said it's just a bureaucratic.
Snafus shocked to hear that Andrea Mitchell would take that position but the bottom line -- point is the one that's most important.
The White House tried to run out the top clock as they did successfully during the campaign.
And they're hoping this story dies in the way that Richard Nixon hope -- Watergate would die now I don't equate the two sustainably at all they're very different.
Stories are very different realms with very different.
Outcomes but obviously Watergate didn't die Whitewater.
-- -- It's an open question in my mind I think -- might be right.
But I'm not sure he's right.
By a bouncer but they needed -- I'm not positive I just think -- a lot of things that.
That are going on general and -- and sometimes.
You know it's like who who have -- two weeks ago about the Petraeus.
You wouldn't you wouldn't -- and and equally as important.
If Petraeus himself -- sort of pushed over the cliff -- -- amount.
Read about it let's talk about Petraeus in regard to this and his sex scandal not coming out until right after the election.
Do we believe what we're being told.
That Eric Holder said last week that the president was not informed of the investigation of his CIA chief because in criminal matters they don't informant.
Let me let me suggest the phone.
Whether he was or wasn't informed and I believe he probably wasn't.
Any good lawyer would understand the best thing to do for him for the president in his interest is not tell.
Before the election the president would not want to know before the election he may have known.
But I would bet if I had to that he didn't know and I believe that holder didn't -- and didn't want to make sure he didn't.
Have actual knowledge -- -- you agree that you know it into.
As on the president some presence wanna know everything has some presence would basically fire -- tale if you didn't basically give them clips from.
I don't I'm not in this White House I don't know how it functions.
But I will tell you this it it was not kept the FBI.
Director would not let some Asian and Tampa investigate the head of the CIA.
These are two intelligent networks they both have lots of tentacles out there in the world.
It it it was not a very quiet story ahead in the big the much more more widely in the in the agency's.
And my sense is before you take that step you want to cover your tail and I would bet anything that.
They went to holder.
The information that older basically went to someone it may have been chief of staff -- may have been the White House counsel you the White House without -- about -- -- -- now.
I don't think Donovan would necessarily be forced to be it eat that it is CIA does not report to dominate Anderson Anderson.
And it gets finished some form of political intelligent someone thinking through the political -- not -- -- prison said.
We're gonna hold this thing off -- the election and the minute the election was under way on Tuesday the sixth suddenly they start going up that chart they go to clapper Tuesday afternoon right they go to the -- O'Donnell and Brett.
Wednesday and to the president.
And bureaucrats would understand.
Something like this in their terms shouldn't come into a campaign.
Why because the question is who's playing politics why are they doing it just easier to wait.
But that being said the -- you're now making John is an important moment.
Somewhere around the fourth or fifth of November someone inside the FBI said we gotta get this out.
And given clap for his relationship with Petraeus which was not a good one they knew by going to clapper.
Six and then ultimately to the president that the issue would be resolved in a day -- so.
We're gonna take a break for -- Doug I'm probably a political insiders will be right back.
The political insiders Doug shown.
Ed Rollins that I sitting in for -- and -- on job of Aaliyah and let us go now from the politics of the Ben Ghazi.
Which is -- -- reform policy cliff to the politics of the fiscal -- and we've all watched every day -- -- not leaking the statements from.
The president and from speaker Boehner and Mitch McConnell Nancy Pelosi.
As -- now Monday at 1045.
With only six weeks to go until we're going over the club.
Where is this thing -- politically for the Republicans and Democrats and then for the country let let me off.
Review it and I would -- And appreciate you -- did take issue with that as I believe you do -- I think that that for a political insiders is really helping.
What I've said and I said yesterday.
Is that the Republicans need to compromise on rates.
The election was clear Obama ran on -- the polls so people want it.
And it's a way to take the issue off the table and stop a class based fight we could.
Put -- Douglas taught -- to put the Rasmussen poll about this.
And you've given this the Rasmussen numbers 573.
If the Republicans go up appoint an effort to on the top rate.
And also insist on entitlement reform and spending reform as a means of promoting a pro growth.
Environment they can seize the narrative -- that was what I said it would be what my strategic initiative would be.
But -- your closer -- run the Republican congressional campaign committee you've been political director in the White House.
Tell me why am I -- all I think -- pub.
-- realized my first hole.
They're all about ready to shoot themselves in the head forever getting and this fiscal cliff on both sides.
They that they -- -- resolves in some way shape or form.
The president is demanding he gets to race this is his sort of slap at the Democrats this is what I -- I -- -- you know the rich -- what I promised it's the patent they backed Democrats.
-- people -- coming and saying -- gutter.
Tax the rich more.
My sense is there more than willing to basically get more revenue out of the rich but they're gonna follow sort of the same plan that Romney is now.
Somewhat discredited as a leader of -- party two weeks after you like what.
In which they will basically close loopholes and basically.
Create more revenue revenue was the issue -- not raise revenue but to the president -- -- -- to to an -- to them.
The first time out of the box they don't wanna basically given the president they they don't -- -- -- -- -- -- -- one therefore when he gave you everything you want.
Mom my sense is they'll know they haven't seen inning on the other side yet on the -- negotiations on the entitlement and all residents so surprise.
Right now and it was the end dias at and T campaigns that the president ran must face -- -- -- -- to both sides want to learn about president never really talked about what he would do in the second term.
Except the one specific thing he did say all the time was that deal had to be fair and had to include raising taxes on.
The rich now -- -- the term raising taxes.
Remove deductions and raise revenue -- that suffice politically for him.
Well Bowles Simpson lowered rates to 28%.
Here's the problem -- deduction right and that's the latter point John is where that where the real issues and this is where the politics plays out.
And it's the second level alone detail but it's critically important.
If you noticed senator Schumer.
Limiting deductions and wants to raise rates the resume wants to do that is for a state like New York.
To limit charitable deductions.
To limit the home mortgage deduction.
Has a crippling impact.
On charitable institutions here and also on.
People's own taxes because people depend on.
-- deductions to limit their overall liability so bottom line it's nice to -- and I support.
Summit with some version of the Republican.
-- I'd like to see rates -- go -- -- point point may have but limit deductions but the problem is high state taxes -- Tax stateside.
Like California New York when they think about the implications of it.
We'll get extremely nervous now.
Our coach what about Grover Norquist -- no.
Tax pledge which even I think does include.
Deductions to increase revenue is that thing grossing -- Yet Grover will not have quite to influence I think the countered.
The house Republicans -- every single one of them argued against the president's plan and they were got reelected him to a majority.
Which obviously we all know.
Reports and all the -- that a lot to do with that -- needs to say.
And I think from Maine -- suspected of Boehner wants to remain a strong leader and and and that they had in the house is now the Republican party for the next four years.
You know the senate obviously is an opportunity in two years to come back but right for today that it be Jen is going to be driven and I and I think they're very clear.
That they're willing to a major tax overhaul.
Camp the chairman from.
Michigan will be responsible for which is probably a year down the road but they're not gonna basically that the president went right back so they getting kicked it.
And down the road just another thing -- you must stop -- that Miller -- think that you don't you see here's the problem -- its formulation.
I think he's right about where Republican hands Iraq.
The problem is the Democrats are dug in and taxes automatically go up on everybody.
On -- I'm -- first got so every bone Obama feels between that.
And public opinion he's got a club and he can get the Republicans.
To exceed -- was wishes now if it's right in the Republicans hang tough.
They will be true to their principles and let Obama Obama most say they raise taxes on the middle class.
And that's the issue and they really they can try to kick the can down the road but they've got to do something about.
And the expiration of the bush tax cuts otherwise we will hit -- very.
Ten when Obama got quote shellac in the mid term elections he did -- on the bush -- to attack 36 and do what he's not digital -- -- -- at this time and I think what he feels says I'm guessing this politically.
I got the Republicans cornered right.
I got the media behind me I got the public that -- -- -- behind me I -- not gonna give them and if we have to go over the cliff for a few days.
The blame is going to be like it was in 94 when the government shut down it's going up.
Then it was Gingrich now it's going on Boehner McConnell all on the -- part of it.
And the media will savaged the Republicans for those I think that's the politics.
Other you agree you agree -- I agree with that -- I don't think I want it to Republicans care about the media.
And I think they've been rehabilitated it I think they'll take the hit I think realistically.
If you want to talk about what needs to be done.
We need a lot more revenue than when I get by raising taxes on people making two and 2000 dollars a year that we don't even begin to basically get anywhere near the revenue to ask.
They also assume that the president who want his promise promise promise from the first day started running for president I'm not gonna raise taxes on the middle class of -- to raise taxes.
And that -- -- thrown back at.
But -- Edmonton says as a candidate.
Which I have been.
I can't imagine going out there and having a problem saying to middle class voters who are our voters that we win elections when we get -- vote for us same to them.
How I voted to raise taxes on rich guys.
In order so you don't have your taxes -- what how -- that lose -- votes so some rich guys don't like it well too bad I mean.
They're not -- like the Democrats either because they're.
Raising -- you have to understand unlike unlike your district that way back when.
These guys have won in districts when.
Obama had a big victory.
Obviously then they're not sitting there worried about the electric there's not going to be point five -- thirty seats lost.
Historically the sixth year is always the worst year for the incumbent party.
And the -- weighed down in -- mid term as usual no well so my sense is they're basically there will go back to the country and say listen.
Taxes -- taxes attacks and this is just the camel's nose under the tent that if he can raise taxes here you raise taxes again he won't.
We're trying to force him to make the cuts entitlement cuts.
You know I -- and I think obviously your -- -- correct premise you can get away with it but I think that that this is -- Boehner and McConnell went.
As I've I think Beno wanted to do this -- wants to pull out yeah I'm not sure carnival like Tea Party does and I think Eric Cantor somewhere in the middle.
Why can't I want to depose -- want -- legitimate right he wants to oppose whoever's got it though he's gonna do what he's got to do.
But the path to speakers through note right I guess I but I read -- thing recently since the election that a lot of the incoming freshman Republicans did not -- the Norquist pledge and like a dozen that have signed -- are willing to get rid of them so they're clearly you're thinking.
I'm going with the tax revenue we'll have a minute left close and half the future of the GO pay.
And you've opened up today by saying they're all trying to shoot each other -- all.
I over the side I mean I'm I'm not pessimistic I've lived through.
Bad times I've lived through your cycle and 82 was a White House political director when that occurred.
I first I worked in the White House in 1973.
Lives -- 74 Watergate.
You know my sense today as you know we we came fairly close with a not strong candidate of beating incumbent president which is never easy.
We caught -- house we came within a couple of crappy candidates from winning -- majority in the senate.
So I don't I think there's a bet that a map that we have to go follow.
Which is reaching out to Latino voters to younger voters two to -- single women voters.
But I don't think that we're basically in the condition that we were in the post.
Watergate period with a condition worse here's what I would say.
It's -- at thirty governors -- he leads a party that has a strong base thirty governors.
Carter how many legislatures.
But pretty close to thirty legislators maybe a few more.
But bottom line the party lacks.
-- sitting here.
I'm thinking today of our special guest Ed Rollins certainly you John would qualify.
But bottom line.
There isn't a Republican narrative there is a democratic narrative we don't like it raise taxes on the rich class warfare middle class the middle and help the middle class that is correct.
But there isn't a Republican narrative and I would make the argument until that happens something more -- I'm not Obama.
The party will be in trouble I agree with that in and the problem is.
The controlling element today is that house Republicans the traditionally are not good about dividing.
-- national message.
-- I think we we used to have two things that made us the superior part of we were viewed as better and and trusting stewardship of the economy.
-- foreign and defense policy.
Under George W.
Bush we lost those two -- -- can you imagine Barack Obama being -- for hunger almost took.
That's got to -- it and we have to get candidates -- talk about these things and -- that found.
My my final comment is we got to go.
We're lucky to have Ed Rollins with a pleasure you'll join us again and thank you very much stock.
Thank you Doug thank you -- -- of -- political insiders will be back Sunday we will not be yes we.
No we will not be back this Sunday it's Thanksgiving weekend we will be back next Monday at 1030 see you then have a great Thanksgiving.
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