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It's awful -- -- -- -- numbers are coming down the -- the number of Americans on food stamps going up.
More than 47 million Americans now receiving the benefit is it because.
Government officials are constantly promoting it -- everybody I'm David as a welcome to Forbes on FOX let's go in focus with Victoria -- Which Karl guard Morgan -- and Rick -- John Candy and bill ball so John.
Why are food -- going up if unemployment going down.
Well the unemployment rate is still abnormally high and and I think we also know that that unemployed deployment rate obscures a lot of people who have left the workforce altogether -- -- no longer counted.
-- asked for politicians encouraging that that's a really horrifying notion.
On the idea of going on food stamps is something that we should always try to avoid it's something that should be so painful.
-- we only go on them for a brief time so there's an incentive to get back into the work -- that politicians are doing the reverse is something we've got to look at more seriously what.
Rick -- you have all these ads on radio and television I was a radio -- about four of them every hour you have.
You have government volunteers now specifically going out to encourage people to get -- says there is a big push to get people on food stamps.
Yeah I I would take some exception to that I don't think this is about promoting food stamps this is about getting the information out there to people who need.
Food stamps so they know that they're there to get -- one other point -- would to John's point.
I think there's a lack taking place -- that we need to recognize.
Unemployment is coming down we had some surprisingly good news this week on that factor.
There will be a lag between that coming down and people being able to make the switch -- of food stamps and get back to work.
But Victoria simple fact there -- now fifteen million more people on food stamps in there were four years ago.
Absolutely and and -- scary thing to me is that this has been building over the last decade so we can talk about this says.
A phenomenon of the recession.
But when you look at both President Bush and President Obama.
We've seen a really -- president rise in the food stamp program to the point where.
This -- game is so large that it's also supporting a large bureaucracy that wants to fuel its growth.
You know it's a four billion dollars in administrative -- both didn't want to lose their jobs either so I don't see this going away until we have a real frank discussion about it nationally.
And at Morgan inventory brings up a break where there is a sort of industry.
A Bjork bureaucracy is being created around all these -- to promised not just food stamps by the way if you add up all the poverty programs.
We're excluding Social Security here -- all up.
It comes out to 22000.
Dollars for for every -- person America 47 million poor people in America.
Why not just get rid of the bureaucracy kind of a check.
I I think that's a good idea we could have an entire debate on -- but let's just go back to food stamps for a second this idea of government.
Promoting food stamps.
We have a farm bill that's actually kicking around congress this week.
At proposes four billion dollars in cuts to the food stamp program over the next decade.
An agricultural committee chairwoman has actually said she'd be -- even larger cut so every last thing about food stamps our government is taking measures to try and -- Rich and look it's I'm kind of simple guy here I see all this advertising by the government to put people on food stamps.
I see fifteen million more people on food stamps after that government program -- during the government -- or isn't there a relationship there.
There is endowed Victoria properly describe something you could call the welfare industrial complex and once it gets to a certain size.
It begins to look over its it looked got on behalf of itself and that's a bad thing but look we really haven't another crisis here that's unrelated and that is.
We have a growth crisis were growing at about 2%.
We should be growing at 4% annually if we were -- we had the right tax and regulatory policies to liberate.
Job creators to do that I don't think we would have this food stamp price of -- Actually all of us could agree on that but what about that -- welfare industrial complex bill that.
That Richard Victoria are talking about it's kind of -- keeping poor people poor because they're pushing Ali's welfare programs are.
David I don't think you should be shocked that self perpetuating bureaucracies engaged in advertising and promotion.
To justify to their constituencies would have -- lot of it is shocking it is not going to -- government officials would want to keep people ports -- -- -- Bush's program but let me give you an example and this goes back a few years.
But and this is -- a real narrow casting example but the New York City Subway system used to have.
Posters written and Spanish advertising.
A gay and lesbian domestic violence Hispanic hotline.
No that's how fine -- did gets -- new York city New York City I'm on the subways pushes welfare programs that people.
Yes it informs them but it also puts it -- -- -- Johns candy let's get back to the poverty programs here and what they are pushing which is food stamps and a lot of other welfare programs.
That I think.
Very often have a tendency to keep poor people poor once you're on the dole it's a lot harder to get off it.
It certainly is.
The incentives are wrong and they're trying to encourage people to stay on it but I do believe -- agree with the rich.
That this is ultimately growth crisis economic growth is easy and if we get the -- -- right.
A lot of these people go off it.
I also agree with Victoria here that we -- that we have also welfare industrial complex in the you have a lot of well paid bureaucrats would have an incentive.
In order to keep these people on food -- and got to talk about that too.
Rick it Al lot of Democrats have talked about the danger of welfare creating a sense of dependency from FDR.
To Bill Clinton to senator whining and I mean this is not.
Just somebody Republicans in and and conservatives are talking about.
That's right and and I think that's an absolutely valid conversation be having the only thing that I'm always trying to point out.
Don't confuse two things if you want to -- for welfare.
Two to resolve the problems that you're raising and they're they're valuable problems they are you're you're you're correct and -- and we should be incentivizing people.
But let's not mix that up.
By condemning people who actually need some help right now because times have been that people need to feed their families that's not -- but.
Victoria are we advocating policies that keep poor people -- I think we are and and Rick DOT your point about family is how the Obama stimulus plan made it easier.
For -- child list jobless people to get on the food stamp program.
We should be revisiting now that now at this point.
Because that's scary fact is going looking at a thirty year period the only two presidents that have had.
And reduce the participation rate of the food stamp program is Clinton bless his heart and Reagan.
Every other president has watched as this program has gotten larger and larger and.
Enraged when you look at what this particular administration has done you see a lot of policies to sort of dismantle.
That the attempt to get back to workfare.
That we saw during the Clinton administration right.
Yeah but you know victorious point about Reagan and Clinton of course we had economic growth then because some government wasn't eating up everything we had.
The incentives were better -- for business people to create jobs.
I believe in the old parable that it's better to teach a man how to fish -- -- given fish if he's starting given fish but the long term answer is a better prepare.
People up for the needs of the 21 century economy and he's broken communities and broken families and broken schools are not doing now.
All right and and I don't think he's government -- or do we need a -- thank you very much coming up next.
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