Did religion have an impact in 2012?
Father Edward L. Beck, Rev. Susan Sparks and Rabbi David Ingber look back at the headlines
- Duration 11:41
- Date Dec 21, 2012
Father Edward L. Beck, Rev. Susan Sparks and Rabbi David Ingber look back at the headlines
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All right we're back -- spirited debate with our great panel and they panel is rabbi.
David -- and -- and sparks and the father and we're back April they'll present different faith traditions.
And we're gonna take on different topics to see what how they're -- base stations actually look at those.
Kinds of issues our next topic is how much did religion impact 2012 there's -- The fight between the US Catholic bishops -- Obama care and the mandated coverage for contraception also a trend story that may have a huge issue.
And may be huge issue on where our culture is headed.
You form survey shows that people professing no religion has actually risen to nearly 20% of the populations the highest ever.
And what does that mean for politics and society in general.
Well first -- talk about.
Catholics and obamacare.
And -- one of the things that -- hadn't -- the election really brought out was this sort of religious liberty.
And that -- US -- conference of Catholic bishops really put up a fight over the issue that mandated.
And they're still battling over that as we talked about.
Because you are representing Catholic tradition here what did you gophers on this and -- with that.
-- what I find interesting about it is this.
Obviously believe it's very important issue and the hierarchy does.
And they have couched it in the broader -- of religious liberty right so I'm not so sure it's about contraception.
Well that's one part of it -- if we let the government do this and tell us do this what next may the government do so let's stop it here.
And so it kind of made contraception the rallying point I think it's about more than that.
What I find even more interesting is that -- themselves.
Do not seem as convinced of that message.
And receiving a good point because even though the good -- but Catholic bishops are staunch about -- -- being -- religious liberty issue.
You know very big number of Catholics actually use contraceptives like an -- -- -- and they don't really along with -- that's really.
It's not really part of the doctrine about catholicism but it's certainly something that you have the followers just like lots of -- deal right.
But the greater issue is can the government tell a religious institution.
To do something that's opposed to its mission and what its central beliefs are and so if you start to answer some people believe that -- fortifications.
-- -- -- -- You know and so if you have to.
Using -- and then you allowing as a Catholic Church someone's -- perhaps if if if that's a medical perspective aborting a fetus.
-- that's going to be very contrary to the mission to capture -- But I'm in his -- -- perspective how.
Does this argument stack up when you actually look at what the Catholic Church is doing.
It and I always felt that it's a matter who wins via.
That -- about how to how to have labeled this argument is it about contraceptives or is it about -- -- -- And we clearly with everything is there's one frame rate that's it clearly one we have family that you could easily friendly visit as a unit of really good safe.
Again a Catholic Church is choosing to truly -- rather fight the fight.
It really is is absurd on on theological grounds of certain terms of human interest in human rights and women's rights in particular you can easily frame this as a conversation about why -- the church.
More interest in the protection of sperm -- his in the protection of unwanted pregnancies that these are so vociferously against.
There's a really a little bit of of an odd conversation I think.
To -- -- wouldn't be -- there -- many factions of the news I don't know maybe the nomination so.
I had come from an orthodox background within orthodox -- contraception is also very very delicate issue.
There are cases were contraception is absolutely religiously mandated against him and areas words with a -- for its okay.
My personal position as nondenominational rabbi.
Is that I think that.
This is clearly a case where the government stepping in with a greater value in the value of the churches is actually -- -- -- -- -- -- beating guys one -- This the right in the freedom women have.
And then but mostly women.
To be able to use the money that is being given to them.
-- it's it's like salary would do what their religious vision is giving them like money that we use in any context that you're going to be using it.
My of their own free Lugo for contraception and here's where the church has drawn the line I think it's -- -- a silly line to draw.
It only makes pitchers look I think really irrelevant and and out of it we really don't get what's going on larger.
Posing for him the only woman without -- yeah.
Did you read -- -- very I don't really I don't know I can end credit and a brother but I can't put my concern Lauren is it that this would be a slippery slope.
But if you allow a group to carve out a legal mandate a religious grounds you know I don't wanna give -- do contraception because it's against my.
Religious beliefs than what's to stop them from carving out say.
It in my religious -- Islam is evil or Islam is wrong to therefore you mind Muslim -- or -- or people who are gay and lesbian this is wrong this is -- you are not hired him where does that stop because this is that this is a carving on the mandate.
Where does -- stop there.
And I would say that's a different issue I would say that's discrimination issue and this is not a discrimination issue.
I think the Catholic churches within its rights to say if you're working for us this is our mission no this is our mission.
If you choose fundamentally to believe something differently you can be part of us we're not gonna pay to support -- Police there.
It was quite an easier sell or you work for revisions usually forgotten about it like salary -- it is essentially that that the scenario is they get it as salary and the government has -- recommendation say.
This is a human right that every human being should have the right to to health care what you're -- my personality.
Partners out of going towards something -- gambling or some other would you say then that you're using money that there was -- -- is giving you.
It is appropriate way to forget guys of these well actually we have an employee -- trading scandal within the church -- -- right to -- Yeah it does not scandalous for some of the good contraception is that this can -- -- -- I think -- I think of like gambling I was excited -- -- -- legal let's say that I instantly assuming that.
I think you know I love -- and we -- what -- because one of the things that you him.
We get to talk about in the department -- is that just because -- is legal does not like at mall where I think that's where you know our site is really kind of changed in terms of what is more more -- total.
You know young people they have no.
Understanding that if something is legal it's not -- they don't.
A lot of them don't get that -- and they -- -- not what they don't get the difference right they think it's something is is legal it must be more often than theirs where.
Our next topic actually gonna -- going to go into because.
We're talking about.
The rise of people have no religious traditions it's got to like 20% and it's not -- they don't believe in god many people are saying experts Obama was just.
Many people it right there.
Very intimate nature of the earth or it -- and they you know have.
Some kind of connection they don't have any kind of -- -- affiliation.
But one of the things that's come out of that too is.
About his views on gay marriage -- -- that has really changed.
Over that period of time we're seeing this rise in not religious affiliation.
Now that you've done game actually got the graphic up -- total 48% favor 44 opposed the Democrats.
Or -- only sport and Republicans overwhelmingly opposed to independence or something in the middle but still independents -- this.
From your religious traditions.
And gay marriage.
Greta what is what is it did you used -- this position on gay marriage or homosexuality.
But again it will be Jewish position as the birdie I -- there's a lot -- -- -- -- -- -- Christian doesn't know a lot like you know boy -- -- nations.
Orthodox world -- and largely orthodox world.
It's seen -- something that is anathema to some things to be informative talk about it what does that even mean that we get married didn't homosexuality itself is prohibited.
There are unique individuals -- requesting Greenberg and others in Europe and that's what we're doing or making inroads being within gay marriage -- reverse role.
Two good left to be orthodox world we've seen until recently because of the -- just came out and and also located so.
Prevent everybody from -- to the left of the orthodox see gay marriage is something that is that can be like any marriage.
A contender within the family.
-- it which apparently can be brought up every imaginable Judeo Christian value.
Can be withheld and and contained within the gay marriage just like in heterosexual marriage that are bad.
Heterosexual marriages and there are bad gay marriages and they -- completed -- marriage between a man and woman.
As the only vehicle.
In which to pass on values like spirituality like leveling compassion.
Is not not seen anyone -- only is exclusively.
Heterosexual context but I think this is a great example -- of why we're losing numbers and why the numbers are switching over people who were pulling out of institutional religion and calling themselves spiritual but don't want anything to do within walking into the -- walking into the synagogue because especially if I'm finding in my community to twenty and thirty year old set.
They're watching the church pull itself apart break itself down destroy itself over -- welcome and who's not argue he will argue bad.
And then we're preaching a message of love and compassion and mercy and there's this complete disconnect -- so that the people are thinking you know I.
I believe the love and mercy and I'd like to go find it but I don't find it here and we're shooting yourself in the -- No I have a different perspective OK in my perspective is that this is not an hour per view this is a legal human rights issue to church shouldn't be involved -- it.
At all we do not recognize the gay marriages cannot be married in our -- is it's not a Sacramento -- everything.
-- at the same time if gay marriage becomes legal I mean you're talking about the slippery slope.
Yes sooner or later they had to come down the -- and say you're being discriminatory and that's that's a litmus test by which we are totally there.
Not only that.
What's the what's the what's the reason to -- to exclude gays from being married other than from -- Christian grounding in what is.
Quote unquote the right way to be married and if -- doubt that if you would have to remove yourself from it from a biblical perspective which is where it's drawn from talk about -- -- -- church and state.
If you don't -- one we're just look at this coming through the eyes of of a secular -- then of course.
Two American mother actually they're actually people who were actually trying to create the argument in the secular sense in Pasadena if you're going to -- An argument against gay marriage and put it into -- public album.
Where you know no religion is dominant then you've really got to.
Frame it in terms of a secular argument and I not that -- -- -- done well and take marriage out of it didn't take marriage completely off the table we're talking about it and -- I have to disagree with the churches are locking their doors to gay and lesbian people just walking into worship.
They're saying you're not welcome here to just be in the presence of god that yeah our -- -- but -- -- it's our -- That is our knows what's to some degree this is -- that avoids the moral the moral question alone again.
If if if one says that it is immoral to exclude.
Two men who love one another from being married justice to the woman and a man numerical level and an American married it's -- it's -- -- morality is it's not just I -- is that an issue of bringing people back editors of the so I would.
I would love I would love having that kind of talk about this because I think it's a really hot topic I think you -- all covered very well I think unbelievable perspective I think people need to hear it we can talk about it civilly.
Doesn't really love it what I thank you thank you all very much father and we're back.
Rabbi David -- and government Susan sparks and -- much for being competitive with the dribble that is.