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-- -- -- Chris it has absolutely angels questions in his new book how can I know.
Doctor -- joins us who -- -- to see when he's here in New York.
He is pastor of the 111000 member first Baptist Church in Dallas in -- -- right we are.
We're getting ready on Easter Sunday to open up a 130 million dollar facility on five.
Blocks of downtown Dallas and death -- monthlong celebration we've got Jim symbol -- James Dobson and Tim Tebow coming.
Well and would love to have you come to that's quite a -- you have -- naturally fit into that -- they've honored to have an.
You ever I am trying to get the exact quote here but -- think you made a statement recently that there are too many wishes.
Who are preaching let me what did you -- what really ramps is what I I was talking no Writely and it's about the only real windy it is wimpy pastors -- -- Christians.
And that is why we're losing the culture war.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Well I think a lot of people had this idea about Jesus that he you know roam the countryside out plucking daisies eating bird seed and never -- -- and controversy all.
And so controversial he ended up getting crucified for it and I just think that we have to be willing not to be -- but we need to be bold.
And -- confront our culture with truth.
God God's -- regardless of the consequences.
-- you know hated them contact was O Reilly was talking about you know why is it he's the only one -- stand -- for Christmas and for -- and and and so forth and the thin on the ride of Christians live -- -- award Christmas really I mean yeah I were you really are really I don't ahead with a -- on this or I'm totally not much you but I think.
Come time pastor I mean that the idea that Christians aren't free in this country to worship as they pleased to enjoy Christmas time you know to as you mentioned I'm Jewish my -- -- Catholic I went to mass on Chris perceived to be very proud of me.
And I I celebrated Christmas would -- Christian part of my family.
Still Warren could -- to look at it like it's bigger than Christmas it is -- even attempt to secular our society we have a girl.
In our community Plano Texas.
Two tried to give a candy -- to another girl that had a Bible verse on it and was told she couldn't do it Kelly shocker for my friend is -- thing dinner and one of the judges actually said third graders have no first amendment rights now I believe.
That is absolutely wrong it goes against the constitution.
But sent him to secular rice side that is kooky that a child can give another -- the candy cane with a viable oversight of the -- -- -- that but.
You can pick every year some incidents like that that shows that people don't get it what does mean there's a war well what looked like.
-- why is it suddenly nativity scenes in the public square are no longer constitutionally acceptable.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- But but but but.
Nobody is really there's no war going on there's no I mean gather communities here in there where.
There's some controversy about a crash or or or nativity scene or they don't want symbols on public property it happens everything happen every year but.
Nobody is denied the opportunity to worship as they please wait wait I the government to do it for you what to say we're gonna put a crash on.
Government land you don't need the government be Big Brother for him.
I'm just saying I think most people island would say over -- twenty years there has been an assault on religious liberty that did not exist first 180 years of our -- -- -- called on Muslims in this country and atheists and people of different -- who are not Christian because you're not the majority well and -- again I believe our country I believe our First Amendment -- for the worship of any god or no god but the fact.
That we don't have a state religion and by the way that's what the First Amendment is about and so many people -- ignorant about.
It's is that congress shall make no law regarding the establishment.
Of -- religion.
Allowing them to tip the DC in the city square is not congress establishing a religion and anybody who does research on the First Amendment look for example the words of Joseph story of Supreme Court justice supported by James Madison he was talking about he says in -- commentary on the constitution.
That is talking about.
The imposition of a state denomination that has nothing to do -- nativity scenes are saying prayers at high school graduation is -- our constitution.
Gives people the right to worship any god or no god but there is nothing in the First Amendment that says.
That we cannot have a preference -- preference toward the Christian religion -- that's always -- you're gonna Wear it where in the constitution does -- say that the government should prefer one religion over the other is the -- the First Amendment that the religion the government state religion neutral -- snow -- -- that's -- part about that is not religion -- is not -- goal of the First Amendment it's to improve -- protect against the imposition of a state religion.
And the state religion being the state and yeah like -- lot of history you want the government to prefer christianity or brotherly yes.
-- and is there any founding document -- let's make history for the first 180 years but that's what are -- -- eighteen I need to -- -- I -- that church of the holy trinity vs the US Supreme Court said America is a Christian though she -- justice and that in that case not the Supreme Court as a -- -- that well and they -- on -- where they said we're not a Christian nation.
But we're -- -- the constitution if -- if if christianity was to be preferred.
What was and that installed in the constitution it was understood a lot of things were understood our let's go to the autograph as are again -- -- -- Robert Jeffers hello Bob.
But -- Allen and and guests.
Something that tries to me.
Bananas is I believe that Jesus was.
You know who they say he was the -- -- the truth of the world.
But I think that the church changed little changed a lot of things visits to that church and we're not -- didn't.
-- -- what do you mean for example.
Well okay for example.
The exclusion is some type thing that says some.
Net income for the father but by me.
I don't think he's just meant that is that the church that.
And once everybody could just come through their place.
And the other places it's exclusive -- amend and I don't think Jesus would teach anything like that.
And doctor -- -- in -- I talk about that in my book in one of the questions how can I know christianity's the right religion.
-- area is talking about what Jesus said in John 146 Jesus said I'm the way the truth and the life no man comes to the father but -- -- The Apostle Peter says there's no other name under heaven by which remain can be -- dissect the name of Jesus also said -- my desire is that all of Israel be -- -- -- to a knowledge of truth from not ashamed to -- gospel of Christ what the new testament teaches -- -- that teaches that Christ is the only way and by the way -- remind people that when Jesus said this Jesus was not a southern Baptist evangelist he was a Jewish for a rabbi.
Peter was -- -- Paul was in June the writers of the new testament the plane that christianity's the only way to be -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- My mom who's in heaven right now said the miracle of christianity is that it survived to Christians -- And I think there's no I think -- been terrible things done in the name of Jesus Christ.
I think the churches been corrupted I think that's one reason.
That we had a Protestant -- -- reformation.
Other church was corrupt a lot of people say well you know that I'm anti Catholic I'm not at all we were all part of the original Catholic Church but it became corrupt power corrupts and there was a reformation.
And still even among the Protestant reformation there's corruption in the church doing Catholics -- in Edmonton everybody you know the great thing -- -- the great thing about the gospel nobody goes to heaven -- a group.
We -- go one by one based on our relationship with Christ there are a lot of Catholics -- in heaven.
And there are a lot of Catholics who won't be either a lot of Baptist in heaven and a lot of back -- -- -- news -- and -- and and into my -- like Jesus is there Paul's they're Peters there's other great -- but he but you have to be a messianic you believe they did Jesus Christ is the same -- to get and they haven't and and and of friends of mine.
I've got friends -- who are rushing -- I just stack had a funeral for messianic GA of and so yes it Jesus is the only way according to his own words you know if there's any other way to god accepting Jesus Christ and the crucifixion was a horrible waste of time and effort.
I believe the reason god sent Christ to dies because it was the only way to bring salvation the good news is Alan it's available to -- to I don't.
Feel I don't see myself finding Jesus as my savior in this lifetime.
And my Christian wife knows that to be the -- and evangelize make you feel bad for me that I don't.
Except that you know what you are such a Smart guy and I'm I'm not trying to patronize you.
I think you have a great heart.
And I'm not ready to say your not gonna find Jesus -- you have hope that I will find geez I do and I'm going to be honest with our pre pre I consider you for and what you and I do pray for that I will find -- yes absolutely.
-- -- -- -- -- his -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- back -- Coulter moment but first let's get a little bit further into the book.
You say how can I know god is good with all the suffering the world.
That is the age old question we asked him after nine elevenths we -- -- after -- How would god let this happen now.
Well again you know I think there are no easy answers -- that there are some things a Bible does tell us about god first -- -- he's good.
And not people.
I think we can also know that most of the evil in the world can't be attributed to -- you know -- CS Lewis who said most of the atrocities in the world.
Are produced by human beings would guns they nets and gas chambers and so you know get it's not -- -- a blank and people are still well couldn't god stop it.
Well yes god could stop but it.
Which you know of god one around stopping every evil act that would mean he thinks such as truth goodness and only be divine programming but -- -- omniscient.
And he's an infinite and he's omnipresent.
Right why can't he step -- and save the life of a young child in Newtown Connecticut who never did anything wrong in his -- And -- again I don't want to sound pat and flip when I say this.
But the fact is you know you look at something this horrible it was Connecticut is horrible was it wise it still.
Pails in comparison to the greatest act of injustice that never occurred in human history.
And that was the torture and crucifixion of -- and son Jesus Christ.
And yet god allowed it to happen he had a reason for it and -- used it for ultimate good and I think the hope for Christians he has.
And for -- office is that.
God can take the worst evils that happen in the world in general or in our world in particular.
And somehow use -- Africa is the reason really valid or useful if we don't know what it is.
I hope there's a reason for things.
That -- transcend my understanding right now you know when I was three or four year old -- parents did things that I didn't understand but I knew were working for my idea but you found out later in life that they where we may never know what god.
Theater why he did we may not know on this side of the great but I think we will ultimately know.
The good news is we can trust god.
And it's like the old saying even when we can't I see his hand we can trust his heart Terry -- -- Canada hello.
Oh well I'm bloggers do your program -- another great great show great job back plate I'm American and that opened the opened battery now I'm going to have to.
-- All of our back that up you'll read.
The doctor is there a couple questions for -- is great that third what is the -- living in the US he always hear about the -- the war Kirstie and he would think.
Like that now is that because they have the upcoming federal agents that to the -- of -- And more people of -- it is elaborate -- and things like that itself wire feeling the pressure.
And the other part question to would be -- how could you possibly have the gall to believe.
Is the preferred relive -- religion in the U and also that what you just mentioned now that of think -- saying that the it's pieces auditor.
Not related but don't -- they -- Allowing his -- to be executed crucified.
Pocket -- -- state that is worse than the killing of 42 children.
I tell you the -- And -- doesn't matter who you're you believe it.
Let's give the -- -- chance to respond.
Yeah well the did the easy answer is.
-- Jesus is the only -- -- person who's ever lived and and that's why would say it's the greatest active injustice that ever that there were -- in the killing of youngsters well I'm saying I'm saying he's the only.
-- -- -- -- -- Who's ever suffered -- mean we all suffer but we all have some culpability if not for the act were suffering 4% in house but.
What I would also save the person who always are just talking.
You know here it is this you know look.
I'll talk about is our nation's history was based on -- Judeo Christian.
Bedrock foundation and that -- that I don't really sweat out that culture wars and what's going on Allen.
Because frankly when you look at the history of christianity we've always done better when we're in a minority position -- and a majority position.
When -- good Christians are in the majority position.
They tend to get prosperous and the church gets flabby and corrupt -- -- look at the places were christianity is really spreading around the world like China for example.
It's word that churches under persecution.
-- I said when are Christians are pressed may expand.
And that's been kind of -- -- People my -- Christmas that.
Let me let me ask you about forgiveness -- to get around a little -- -- the -- -- and and that's the key part of your book and certainly keep part of christianity.
And how do you forgive and -- to give yourself -- last -- -- goes into when you screwed up.
Now you know had he ever make good on that and and to give yourself well -- go.
Back to this horrific act in Connecticut you know -- I would say how could you ever forgive if you were one of those parents.
And you know again I would make the argument that.
Forgiveness is something we do for the benefit of ourselves not for other people when we forget what we're doing is we're giving up our right for vengeance.
But not our desire for justice.
When you forgive your saying okay.
This person what they did to me is wrong they deserved to be punished for what they did.
But I'm gonna allow somebody else to exact justice rather than doing it for me I'm gonna let go of this offense can get on -- my life you know it's like somebody said you know forgiving is like letting go over rattlesnake yet it benefits the snake but it -- -- more.
Let's get to Dan in Madison Wisconsin -- -- Canada England so Obama could -- an additional amount that I -- -- -- -- it's thank you I have a question for the young man here.
First of all.
I have a question about their visas you -- used -- an article there about Bible student.
Then -- that's been used as the -- I mean.
Directed -- animals created by.
The offensive morals and best and of course doesn't say that he disputes but somehow got out there -- blew.
Well -- and again we we look at the Bible and what the Bible says about Jesus you know what's interesting and and this is -- point out in my book about why christianity how can I know Christian he's Iraq religion.
How different Jesus was than any other religious leader -- -- only Jesus claimed to be god only Jesus claimed the power to be able to forgive -- for example the lord Buddha said the lord Buddha can forgive nobody but Jesus claimed to be able to forgive sands.
Jesus claimed that he would be able to conquer death you know no other religious leader claimed that they would be able to come back after they died.
Jesus claimed that he would -- you know the -- is still empty 2000 years later some -- a -- That no other religious leader made which is what separates you there's so literally -- -- is it Jesus died and came back.
Absolutely how can now I asked.
This so often of people who are devout Christians yeah.
It devise a -- physics.
How do you comfortable living but how do you come to believe -- -- we're sure defies a lot of physics like the virgin birth or defeating -- fire thousand -- a lot of the miracles in the vibe out.
So I absolutely.
But look you have to ask yourself what do you believe Jesus is a historical figure who died.
If you accept that he is then of course he has.
What happened to that body and -- some people say well the disciples.
Stole -- well and they weren't expecting a resurrection they scattered like rats off the sinking its ship they were scared to death of the Romans.
And the Romans in the Jewish leaders certainly didn't steal the body I mean they wanted to stamp out the Christian movement if they couldn't produce the body of Christ the Christian movement would have been stillborn at its inception.
You would think after 2000 years with all the enemies of christianity somebody would have found that body if -- -- existed the reason they didn't find it -- it wasn't in the -- it Jesus -- roses he predicted he would.
And this is how the Christian movement started Isaiah -- -- -- a California.
You know you don't.
As one that the good doctor -- you ship that you you -- -- Vegas strip by Iowa and historically has been no -- Because of the Bible has been written over reach isolated to -- and other states.
And that one Bible that the -- same city as about the Bible.
And it Mumbai knows he's remember it for anybody to worsen and bring -- -- like that -- -- belt with your.
It is system that -- -- -- Bryant hasn't.
There's no way where -- Jesus did not -- many.
I do -- people where's that we should worship you know.
As a person so my question and it's ready to -- but here saves knowing that the Bible -- -- reach at least so many times.
All of -- would -- records.
-- -- -- that other question and one that I talk about in my -- by the way I think that was turned electoral may be a lot of listeners.
They're getting their theology from the Da Vinci code instead of from the effects of the -- the Bible is very trustworthy.
In fact you look at there are more manuscripts for the new testament than any other work -- ancient literature.
And what is amazing is.
They all cores onto one another if you took all of the variations in all of the 25000 greet new test agree agree manuscripts.
They would amount to about 13 of one page of the 200 page -- new testament.
So all of the manuscripts.
Show that the Bible is -- unified as you know -- the Dead Sea scrolls sending what they.
-- found -- before the discovery of the Dead Sea scrolls in 1947.
The earliest a manuscript we had.
-- -- -- ways like.
I I think it was 900 AD and that manuscript that was found of Isaiah was dated 100 BC a thousand years earlier.
And yet is they compared the manuscript over a thousand year period there's hardly any variation at all showing how.
Currently the copies to copied the new testament -- in the old testament.
The fact is the Bible you hold on in your hand today -- matter what translation it is is absolutely.
Accurate and I believe the word of god.
Robert Jefferson his new book is called how can I know I thank you very much for your generosity of time -- -- in the city and combines his which we.
Really appreciated faster thanks for being with -- thanks for having me --