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And welcome back -- spirited debate the pristine image of Jesus Christ with a halo in perfectly white garments.
May not may be more manufactured.
That depiction than actual reality in fact.
-- he may have been a great deal more human getting dirty and gritty -- Johnny Moore explains in his new book dirty god Jesus in the trenches.
Giants also the vice president of Liberty University joins me now from Washington DC welcome Johnny -- to have it.
Things -- going to be with you can't have a little hard time -- can here me.
Yeah I can hear you fine.
OK you can hear me what I can read great -- course if you can hear me and I we're.
With some -- -- first by a dirty -- let's just get that out of the way out operative and how to.
Yeah this is a little controversial.
To some people I guess but -- what I'm trying to do is a resurrect.
The image of Jesus human.
You know for more than 15100 years the universal church has agreed to Jesus was both fully human and fully.
DeVine and so the humanity.
And Jesus is what I'm referencing and in the title -- the -- the dirty got the god you got dirty so the world can become clean.
Physically he must've been can't dirty is -- he was quite tough economy -- didn't just didn't stick to him I mean if you because we see the picture of Jesus where the woman.
Is watching his feet with his tears and and with her tears and the and the perfume and all of that so I mean physically dirty as well but that's -- -- -- focused on right.
Now now it's that it's a metaphor for the grace of Jesus.
-- -- day and by the way Jesus did this for a reason when when it's Christians believe he decided as god to come down the planet earth to save the whole world.
I -- he could've come down in all kinds of different ways but what do -- think it.
Because to be bored and that little town called Bethlehem and a Manger he lived about small little village of a 400 people he knew that -- really regular life he recruited a lot of really regular people to be.
I -- his followers and so you know somehow this idea of -- Jesus getting dirty to the world keep it clean is -- it's a metaphor for grace of god has given us -- and this way in also it's really put it's our understanding of christianity and of Jesus.
Because Jesus is the god.
It became like us he's the guy who became like a man or woman so that people can understand what what what it is to follow god like them and so.
I've written a book about grace -- the -- of the every day Jesus the Jesus that had to live life the way we had to live like they had the struggles that we had.
And so if you look at the gospels that -- -- -- -- -- becomes really relevant and really alive.
-- and he talked about grace and end do you think a lot of people understand what that word actually means.
Because there's a movie out right now which is based on the Broadway musical in his but his -- which is you know in the film version.
And that movie is a word picture.
You hit it as a story about grace do you think you won't understand the concept.
Yeah it's interesting that graces sort of intuitive to people because every great novel every great story and it's a wonderful example.
It seems like the deep prevailing theme to the great literature and -- great stories of history is a theme of redemption.
You know someone stepping in taking the fall for someone else someone sacrificing for them.
And so it seems like somehow intuitively man's heart is drawn towards grace -- cares about grace.
About what it's aware that gets caught up -- lots of theological language and people are really confused by it thought I define it really simply I think.
Grace is just the kindness of god given to us as demonstrated in Jesus Christ and it's a -- he's given to us and something he's given us the privilege of giving to the world so.
He's been -- to -- he saved ourselves -- are sensitive but you're just and that's what Christians believe.
And then we should model that for other people I think one of the reasons why all of us are drawn to stories you know like byte tackling me is certainly missed -- -- Is because this story is some -- tuned in the human heart this is -- -- Jesus has done this is christianity -- you know have.
I think we see it we know grace -- we see it but how do you give it.
One who feels like an -- You recognize it when grace is given to others but how do you give it.
Hit it into the thing that the whole first half of my book dirty guide is about getting great understanding -- in the second -- half is -- -- -- an -- about this is about giving grace.
-- and one of my point says is that Greece is something that's given and all kinds of ways it's given in a thousand different ways it's given little ways like when -- You know leave an envelope with a little extra money on the desk of of a single mom or.
How when you share kind an encouraging word to someone that's in need it's given those little ways but it's also given grandiose -- like when the global church decides that.
Either going to take -- seriously like you know human trafficking or or or combating poverty and they decide to leverage their influence to -- that -- so.
I think all of us know what it's like she received someone else kindness.
And and giving grace is when you when you do to others.
What do you enjoy that I had went when they do TSA if you if you're kind of if you are debuting kind view than you be trying to them and the great -- -- in christianity.
Grace given by god to us through Jesus Christ for god so loved the world he gave his only -- that whoever believes in him you know we'll have eternal life and that's the image Jesus coming down.
To rescue -- What did you talk about -- Jesus in the trenches and yet and you're talking about a -- got which is totally different not totally different but of the from a posting kind of think oh god -- you gotta swing up here.
Doesn't have time for us he's busy doing other things.
Where he would get the image of god of Jesus as sort of this pristine.
Sort of you know white -- kind of image never dirty never -- -- and sort of apart from us -- you could get that image.
I think it's actually an image that's largely borrow from other religions and and other religious ideas you know -- christianity.
Is is the religion that tells the story of god coming down I mean it it was a man working really hard to get to guide.
To climb the ladder and -- -- -- god dropping the latter down coming down with us and bringing us.
It's I think it's I think it's emblematic of the general idea of religion around the world the big holy god on the temple in the top of the hill to god.
But -- -- work really hard to get his attention you have to.
Begged in lead and then in the moment you know of of history -- when you know Christians believe Jesus came it's a different story so I actually think it's less Christian.
I think that is sort of the -- -- of other religious.
Ideas that that have been prevalent throughout history mean this is Jesus thank Jesus was at the Greco Roman god that -- in the glorious temple with a perfect physique.
I mean Jesus is that god he won't everything in it all the power -- planet earth does this Christians believe but he decided to come with us T I believe.
But if you met Jesus 2000 years ago when you set them and talk to him.
You -- feel like he understood your life.
And that's -- -- christianity apart I think in the idea of who god is and what god has done with regard to man's problems and Manson.
You know I ask you just one question about the controversy over -- the reverence.
Luigi Leo are you familiar with this pastor who I withdrew his name from consideration before we give him and I get fiction.
President Obama's second inaugural are you aware of the story.
Oh yeah yeah I night and I know Lillian and have follow him along time.
What do you think about this and he he basically he withdrew his name because.
-- critics pointed out certainly gave the 1990s which he you know -- blast of the gay rights agenda.
What do you think about this controversy.
Actually think this is a watershed moment I really think mrs.
Unfortunately what I think is going to be the story of evangelicals and the Obama administration for for the next four years I mean.
This should have been the perfect picture an evangelical.
-- perhaps disagrees with the president on some issues.
But he and the president are working together that.
Combat the 27 million.
-- modern based laser on the what I mean this should have been a perfect picture.
And -- people on different sides of the spectrum can be co belligerents but what happen I -- this message went out to culture.
That we will tolerate every one but -- -- evangelicals -- what I think is really unfortunate about the whole thing is after Louis.
You know apparently withdraws his name.
From the inauguration because of the controversy the inaugural committee.
You know writes this in a statement that basically we -- approach -- -- guy under the bus who's working with the Obama administration to combat human slavery despite having different perspectives and at this -- moment that I think a lot of evangelicals and the need to pay attention to it seems like.
Bigotry and intolerance towards them and by the way the president said something he said and it would win when he won this election season he was gonna be the president for all.
Americans and you know I'm just I'm just wondering whether he had any intention of that whatsoever I think the president needs to remember that half of Americans voted against him and he's the president of all Americans.
And this really isn't a good start in a country that celebrates the freedom -- religion.
All right I want thank you very much Johnny Moore.
Author of a dirty god Jesus in the trenches and vice president of the Liberty University thank you so much for your insight it's really wonderful always wonderful to hear from -- I think he's going to be with -- --
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