DefCon 3 1/30/2013
A discussion on immigration and national security with Amb. James Jones. Plus Amb. Bolton on nominees
- Duration 24:27
- Date Jan 30, 2013
A discussion on immigration and national security with Amb. James Jones. Plus Amb. Bolton on nominees
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This transcript is automatically generated
Just -- partisan thing to let me just say this.
If this if this endeavor becomes a bidding war.
To see who can come up with the easiest quickest and cheapest -- to green -- possible.
This thing is not gonna go well folks.
We have now a very common sense and reasonable set of principles and I hope the president will say today is that he hopes that that process succeeds.
But if his intentions are to trigger a bidding war to see who can come up -- the easiest process.
This is not a good start.
We have to deal with the eleven million individuals were here illegal.
-- we all agree that these men and women should have to earn their way to citizenship.
But for comprehensive immigration reform -- work.
It must be clear from the outset that there is a pathway to citizenship.
Okay you welcome it just comes -- -- was fascinating after thirty years.
Out everybody in Washington running away from the immigration issue both political parties are running for it as fast as they -- talking about comprehensive immigration reform.
Border security and then how -- believes into the whole idea of gun violence so welcome to -- country where we're gonna talk about this.
Not with guys from Capitol Hill -- Washington what is it down with two ambassadors who really -- -- stuff.
What we want to start out though is talking down to former Clinton administration ambassador James Jones -- -- US ambassador to Mexico.
And to talk about the whole idea of immigration reform and how does it affect national security you're one of the people -- led the charge for comprehensive immigration reform.
So tell me first what does that mean -- -- one has to be part of any comprehensive immigration reform bill.
Well I think three -- four main parts to the number one is to secure our borders to take all the measures necessary.
Going forward that we couldn't we can have secure borders and that also includes a realistic.
Quota system for how many people will we will legally and allowing any tier the second is.
How do we.
The deal with -- being roughly eleven million undocumented people who are in this country and have been in this country for several years.
And how do we make them part of our society.
So those of the two main parts of that.
And I think the third part really is the realistic approach to what do we need this -- economy as a society.
And then provide for that so that they can be legal us.
Immigration in this country.
Ambassador just before you went to Mexico.
In the Reagan administration I was in the -- administration.
Where we did have comprehensive immigration reform same arguments made what do we do about the people who are already here we gave -- blanket amnesty.
The argument was that we have a secure our borders but we never got around to securing the borders do you think that's the first -- and how is this gonna play out what are the priorities.
I think they're all pretty much simultaneous the problem during the the 86 immigration bill and law under.
The Reagan administration.
Was exactly she said number one the enforcement was lax after after the bill was passed.
And number two we didn't have a realistic.
A level of legal immigration for example we -- we needed two years ago three years ago we needed.
Service workers in this country.
The legal limit for immigration was 50000 Sweden we needed ten more than we were legally.
Allowed to have so I think those were the two major flaws of the bill in 1986.
And you think that there is bipartisan support and congress now to deal let us troops to shortcomings.
You know I I've often said when I used to be in politics that that elections matter and I think that's clearly the case of this last election.
The way in the vote came out I think both Democrats and Republicans.
Have decided to team to.
Resolved to pass this immigration bill -- to pass a comprehensive.
Immigration bill and I think that's due to the elections it would not have happened if it'd been more blurred.
Okay -- -- -- your former congressman former congressman from Oklahoma but you're also a business guy you're the chairman of the American Stock Exchange.
So -- let's talk about the whole notion.
Of violence along the border and we've seen the drug cartels.
-- the body and -- violence in Mexico the ramp up of violence in Mexico especially in the last ten years.
And how that's spreading across the border into the United States even in places like your home state of Oklahoma.
How do you deal with that whole argument.
Well you know if we have a lot of even illegal immigration what we're bringing with it is a lot of violence and -- American for -- American southwest.
Yeah I really just don't believe that let me let me say that.
About a year ago I was asked to co chair a task force on border security southwest border security.
And among our findings we had a lot of local law enforcement people with us on this on this task force among our findings were.
On the Mexican side of the border it has never been more dangerous and on the US side of the border all across the border it's never been.
I'm more secure there -- less murders less violent crimes all along from Texas to California on our side of the border.
Now there is drug violence and that's one of the things we have to continue our fight against the drug card.
Trade in drug traffic.
Because that brings violence whether it wherever it is at Chicago in Oklahoma.
California or wherever the drug trade is.
I've been put on your national security -- for a minute and talk about.
One of the arguments that people will make in the national security community and particularly with regard to our southern border.
Is well it's illegal immigrants scatter across that you down you know the next thing that's going to get a crisis is illegal.
Chemical biological weapons nuclear weapons Hezbollah as a relationship.
With -- as well you can't secure the border you're gonna have a real immigration.
An immigration problem that people who want to come.
And work that people who want to come and do violence.
But that's always an an issue -- actually more of a problem on our Canadian border than it is on our Mexican border.
Because that border is actually more porous than the one on the Mexican side and that's something we have to constantly be vigilant against.
But as a practical matter of one of the untold stories of the last two or three years is how secure our borders have become.
We do not have had a net increase of of immigration legal or illegal.
For example -- our Mexican border.
And the -- -- border has been much more secure than it ever has been.
We could do more we could do more and enforcement we have -- with additional personnel additional.
Such as drones and things like that but it is more secure than it has been in my lifetime.
But we're getting -- what are the values by the way ambassador Jones of this show in this format.
Is that our viewers are watching me talk to you and -- on their computers and their spending questions so they can join in on the conversation.
So I got a couple of things I want to read you comments and questions job one is from Bryant come away he says.
None of this makes sense -- -- immigration reform -- -- we have secure borders.
No borders and very shortly you will have no country.
And then someone else's so is written -- to say do you think people will figure out that the problem at all this is criminals not illegal immigrants.
It's criminals getting through.
On the border where do you have any comments on either bounce.
Well on the first part I totally agree we have to secure our borders and we are doing that that's one of the great untold stories of the last two or three years as I said.
That has to be a part of what we're we're doing.
On the other part yes there are criminals constantly trying to penetrate our borders both north and south and and and east and west in terms -- -- of the seam routes but.
Believe me it is like fighting terrorism anywhere.
As they say you can only make you can be right a hundred times if you're wrong ones that's that's a big problem so we have to be very very vigilant and I think.
Our government is is doing that I think that.
One of the things about this immigration bill that there there's going to be political rhetoric and everybody's got to stake out their issues and and that sort of thing but in the end I see in a broad consensus.
On what the country needs secure borders.
Some path to two full.
Ability to live in this country for those who -- here undocumented and then it's serious.
Enforcement of that immigration law.
-- ambassador thank you so much for joining us thank ambassador James Jim Jones US ambassador to Mexico -- the Clinton administration.
Former congressman from Oklahoma at a guy who's got the ability to talk about everything from business.
The immigration to politics.
Have to have you back thanks a militia pitted -- do you kitty thank you.
Okay now -- -- new take a break and then come back and talk about what's going on in the Middle East.
Hi welcome back to -- country will go to the Middle East right now.
I -- -- -- -- -- Conner Powell standing by what's the latest.
What's happening in Egypt -- We'll take either political standoff in Egypt continues and it remains violent and deadly there are reports of dozens more injured today in at least two people that war.
Killed now protesters once again defied the martial law order last night incident took to the streets demanding that.
Egyptian president Mohamed Morsi.
Step down now -- -- has rejected those calls to step down he was.
In Germany today meeting with the -- president Merkel and was supposed to meet with other European leaders -- had to cut short that trip to Germany today because of the violence in Egypt.
Now before departing no he did say that he is calling on the opposition and in Egypt to.
To engage in a national dialogue this is something we've heard from -- many many times but he ignored calls for him to step down.
-- to form a unity government to deal with the ongoing crisis.
The opposition groups have called for in this step down they've also called for unity government.
Both sides are essentially calling for the same thing day in and day out but neither side shows.
Really any willingness to compromise and to come together what we've seen continually for the last week or so is.
We'll bloody and violent protests across Egypt.
Ignoring of the martial law and really no ability on the part of the police or the military to restore order.
The political situation is getting worse by the day because essentially nobody -- is willing to make any type of compromise going forward.
Cotter let's go to Israel's northern border problem where there's increased -- -- now between.
Syria and Lebanon and Israel what's the latest.
Well Israel's always fear that the ongoing civil war in Syria would cause problems that -- -- might be transferred from Syria as part of that ongoing conflict to Hezbollah are to other groups that are.
Enemies of Israel.
And prime minister -- been warning about that for months but really the last week has really stepped up the chemical or conventional weapons might be transferred from Syria.
Two -- in last night Israeli jets reportedly struck a military convoy with weapons that was in Syria but on its way.
211 -- it has below are for Hezbollah fighters.
Israeli jets apparently took out that convoy you know we don't know what type a weapon was on it but there are reports that there are Russian made SC seventeen anti.
-- anti aircraft missiles that were on its way to Hezbollah in Lebanon that was really would've been a game changer in terms of Hezbollah's ability to repel any type of that is Israeli attack.
On the southern part of Israel going forward if there were no other conflicts so.
Israel's wanted to make sure that those types of weapons didn't land in Hezbollah another ally enemy groups -- -- the last thing they reportedly took out a convoy.
Now so far Israel is not commented or confirm the report but we are here from various sources that -- it was a strike last night.
What exactly was destroyed we don't know -- but certainly this is an ongoing problem for Israel as they watch this bloody civil war in Syria.
Okay -- Conner Powell -- bad news all around thank you so much and stay safe -- -- -- -- -- The jury is -- -- -- here in New York this is a bastard John Bolton former US ambassador to add nations.
Currently the American enterprise institute and also -- Fox News contributor.
And probably one of the most articulate.
Guys talking about the whole nuclear issue as well as -- Middle East but before we get to that.
I want to ask you and Dan following on from what Connor was talking about it looks like Israel's got problems to the south with Egypt and -- the north with Syria.
Senator hagel is about to testify tomorrow -- confirmation hearings before the senate armed services committee to be secretary of defense and I've got it was -- Israel the US relationship with Israel thinks -- he said about Israel has got to be front and center but what do you what's your take on the table hearings tomorrow.
Well I think you're right I think the comments he's made -- -- Israel about the Jewish lobby about.
Has some American senators being too tied to pro Israel positions he once said.
On the United States senator not an Israeli senator.
That he's gonna have a lot to answer for and against allegations frankly anti semitism.
And he's been making the rounds is -- as nominees do before their hearing.
And I think actually in many of his answers he's raised the second issue of character question.
What we refer to in Washington is a confirmation conversion.
Confronted with statement mayor statement earlier statements -- has not diet I didn't really mean that and that's not exactly what I believer.
That maybe I didn't have the best choice of words.
And I think that has given a lot of people the feeling that he'll say whatever it takes to get through the senate confirmation process.
But it has created a credibility gap that it's created some distrust frankly.
I don't know how it's gonna turn out I think most people would say it depends on what Senator John McCain decides to do if he.
Supports the -- nomination I think he'll clearly be confirmed.
If Senator McCain opposes the -- nomination that I think it's in real jeopardy.
OK -- was senator.
James and -- who is the ranking member on the Senate Armed Services Committee that it was a top Republican on the committee told us last week that there was nothing that was gonna change his mind.
He was going to vote against the -- confirmation.
I think that's very significant because in half had had earlier said hey you it's a nice guy and I'm gonna vote for him and then that I think he realized he needed to look further into some of these statements that he may not been.
Have been aware that hey -- have made.
So for in -- is as you say the leading Republican on the committee to make that.
Announcement even before the hearings.
Shows that no matter what this is going to be a tortuous.
Struggle and there's one further piece of information that I think Lindsey Graham mentioned last night here on the Fox Network on Greta Van Susteren show.
That he still so dissatisfied.
With the administration's.
Lack of candor on what happened.
At our consulate in many guys here on September the eleventh when ambassador Chris Stevens and three others were killed.
That he is prepared to hold up.
The -- -- nomination until Defense Secretary Panetta testifies.
So that's a very -- twist.
Senator Graham obviously.
Quite knowledgeable about how to get people's attention that this will certainly get their attention in the White House did.
Which gave -- Gaza thing after Secretary Clinton testified -- for a house and the senate.
And she was asked dozens of times and had served in -- her answers that seem to put.
At least in the eyes of a lot of the media that that issue to rest do you think that there's anything more it's -- -- be -- gotten out of any new question.
Well I think -- as likely to be a little bit more specific in some of his answers I hope our.
Senators and members of the house.
Rather than making statements that then that the matter or is Hillary Clinton did simply make can understatement -- can't.
Probe into what was done who knew what when and so on and lecture asking specific question.
I suspect is as an attorney himself Lindsey Graham has some thoughts about how to do that so it's a it's a new wrinkle and I think it shows the continuing level.
With the administration's explanation on bad guys -- But also the depth the opposition that some Republicans have for the -- nomination.
It had turned -- one of our regular terrorism -- matters JD.
Has said isn't going to be fallout over the situation in Algeria.
Given that it looks like the sound of the terrorists involved as well -- the weapons involved may have come from Ben Ghazi and from -- Well there certainly should be look what we're seeing a deterioration.
In the security situation all over North Africa in Egypt as we just heard where the state itself is on the verge of collapse.
With terrorist attacks hostage taking and the growth of al-Qaeda in the Islamic -- grab across North Africa.
We're now talking about establishing a US drone base in -- shared centrally located in North Africa.
Of course we don't have a strategy to deal with any of this for just doing it on a completely ad hoc basis.
I think this is we're in a very significant period here in North Africa and the Middle East as a whole and I think it's.
It's it's certainly fair to ask -- go about that -- and asked the administration about what is their strategy.
We -- Conner Powell -- just reporting from Jerusalem and talked about the Israeli strike against what was thought to be chemical weapons coming from Syria I was where.
Former secretary of the -- six -- also cited he said you know that that is the one issue we've got to deal with that we have to make sure that we don't.
What happened with the chemical weapons from Syria.
What we talked about with the regular conventional weapons coming out of Libya where we failed to secure them.
Can anybody do it is -- take you West Bank or assistant Israeli thing -- -- the chemical weapons and how do we make sure we get our hands on.
You know from the -- priorities in the United States I don't think we want to -- chemical weapons used in this horrific civil war in Syria but I'm not sure there's much we can do about it what we do have an absolute in Pakistan however.
As do the Israelis in their particular circumstances is to make sure.
That whatever the chemical weapons capability of Syria is it does not fall into the hands of al-Qaeda or other terrorist.
That to be transported out of Syria and used against us anywhere in the world that is a very grave risk.
It as the Asad regime weakens although it it -- we can much recently.
But as it does weaken and begins to lose control over those chemical weapons I think that's a real issue I -- lose interest thing what Conner Powell was reporting.
Others seemed to be saying the same is that was actually an attack on anti aircraft.
Batteries being shipped.
Across Syria to Hezbollah in Lebanon and that serious because.
If there comes a point and we don't know whether there well but if there comes a point when Israel attacks Iran's nuclear weapons program.
I have long believed that -- -- most likely response would be to unleash Hezbollah and Hamas.
To attack Israeli civilian and military targets.
So an increased air defense capability for Hezbollah.
Would obviously -- the rocket attacks to continue longer than Israel would like to say and one wonders if in Iran's mind not only are they trying to keep the Asad -- propped up which they have done a lot.
Over these past two years to do.
But they're now beginning to think about.
The contingency that may be a new Netanyahu government in Israel really is prepared.
To consider for a preemptive strike against the Iran in nuclear program and I think that'll be an issue for senator -- tomorrow at his here.
The next four years just about every analyst feels that if if not if there's not something done this -- Iran has nuclear weapons -- within this next term or the President Obama.
Is there anything that can be done to stuff but he -- that tourism on had a okay letting -- go -- everybody in the region gets nukes maybe attract containment.
Are on the other hand preemptive strike of some sort some place in the middle.
Where we don't have to go to have another Middle East War but we can prevent a nuclear station in Italy it's well I think.
We've tried everything else I mean diplomacy clearly has failed failed long time ago the Iranian regime is not going to be talked out of nuclear weapons we've tried sanctions I think the current US sanctions and European sanctions not the Security Council sanctions have caused real economic pain in Iran and and I think it's helped destabilize the regime which I think is a good thing.
But I don't think it's done the slightest to slow down their nuclear weapons program so that's why.
We're down to two very unattractive choices one is Iran gets nuclear weapons the other is that somebody.
Preemptively uses military force against -- I think there is zero chance that we'll come from the Obama administration despite what they.
Say repeatedly about all options being on the table they don't believe it and what's worse -- run -- don't believe -- so that's why the spotlight is on.
Is Ray Allen now after the Israeli.
Elections of last week on Netanyahu as he forms his government.
And to make a decision I think they're gonna have to make -- -- in a very short period of time one way or the other whether to use military force.
And what happens if they do.
We up you know I don't think the general war in the Middle East will break out I think Israel will be very vulnerable.
But let's be clear most of the Arab governments certainly Saudi Arabia the other.
Arab states along the Persian gulf don't want Iran to have nuclear weapons any more than Israel does.
So while they will protest against the attack and they'll be a lot of fuss and bother in the UN Security Council in private they'll all be saying thank goodness they acted.
I think Israel the Israeli leadership has a very hard calculation I think they are vulnerable to Iran in retaliation.
I don't think Iran will do some of the things they've threatened closing the straits of -- I don't see that I see there response.
-- directly through Hezbollah and Hamas going after his room.
And let me ask you quickly as a last question -- -- what's next.
Well I think we're very close to the military intervening directly I think this the economic conditions put -- right in the basement in terms of their economic prospects that's what this -- in the streets about.
And I don't think the military is gonna let this go on much longer that would be my production.
Military through military tech I think they'd step in -- put a civilian out front but it will be the military control.
-- -- -- Thank you so much for joining us events in John -- But the rare opportunity here with us -- -- thank you so much thank you okay.
I want to just read a couple of protests really terrific chat comments are let me just read if you look for -- -- -- Greg Perry has said remember what Romney said during the campaign the most dangerous area of the world today is North Africa.
He was right when he said it any said watch Molly most people assume Molly was somewhere in the South Pacific you know right next -- -- Pineapple drinks hula skirts well look what's now happened.
Susan -- has written and the solution is simple talking about gun control.
In force for gun control laws -- have on the -- Get rid of these judges who were soft on sentencing criminals.
Or use guns to commit crimes reopen the mental hospitals start giving mentally ill people the help they need him in a safe environment.
And stock stirred -- public campaign to improve police and citizen relations.
Former mayor Giuliani was on with us a few weeks here and he had the same party said -- personalize your birdie got that's where we're not doing our best.
And then finally javy has the best come at a -- closing it out.
He says look for the US navy.
They'll be able to deal with Syria they'll be able to deal with the weapons coming through our run.
And therefore JG I think donating thanks for joining us -- country is closing out today tune in tomorrow at 11 o'clock.
For Fox News -- come life.