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DefCon 3 2/6/2013

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    KT McFarland and guests discuss defense sequestration and cyber hacking. How vulnerable are we?

  • Duration 30:54
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And Defcon three today show's going to be terrific we're gonna talk about spies -- hackers and brown strikes.

And the Chinese and what they're -- So please join in the conversation send us your questions.

At KT McFarland or and the live chat below.

The coming up first thing is Catherine Herridge our own brilliant Catherine Herridge -- breaks every story known to man.

And she is now hot on the trail.

I'll bet a lot of strikes and John Brennan or as I call him drone -- -- and the confirmation hearings from our -- what's the latest.

Well thank you TT and thank you for the kind introduction a John Brennan will be pressed on his statements about the CIA's enhanced interrogation program.

As well as the drone program tomorrow but just gonna focus for a minute on the EITs that included waterboarding.

The question is whether he reversed his position in an interview with CBS news in November of 2007.

-- defended the program saying quote there have been a lot of information that has come out from these interrogation procedures that the agency has in fact used against the real hardcore terrorist.

It has saved lives since Brennan has apparently taken a different position against the program claimed that he raised concerns -- at the agency.

About a program that critics say and managed to torture.

A former deputy director at the agency could not confirm to Fox News that -- raise his concerns with him.

But said he should be taken at his word.

This was not a program that would normally be discussed between John and myself.

But if he says that he talked to colleagues about it and expressed reservations I believe him because this is a very straightforward honest guy.

The Senate Intelligence Committee is led by a powerful Democrat Dianne Feinstein and she has completed a 6000 page.

Classified report into the CIA program.

Those familiar with the report's findings tell fox it concludes the agency lied about the program's effectiveness.

A charge -- -- by those who ran the program.

A leading human rights groups and believes Brenda must explain whether he agrees with the report's findings.

I haven't seen a study so it's it's to -- let's talk about it because it's over 6000 pages long that's classified.

But senator Wyden who is a member of the committee who has seen the study.

Has said that it appears that the CIA did mislead.

Congress and the White House about the CIA's interrogation program.

So we don't know whether it's about whether or not it was effect and whether it's about the full scope of it.

How many people -- in the program how long the program lasted but these are really key issues that need to be answered.

What's also clear based on the -- has speaking today KT is that this issue of the targeted killing program.

Is now starting to get -- traction we've been reporting on this program here at fox for two years but what we're now seeing as there's been picked up more broadly.

In the media and also we see on Capitol Hill in advance of the -- hearing.

Republicans and in the majority Democrats.

-- now demanding these legal memos that justified the program.

Be released to congress so that it can fulfill its oversight function KT.

Catherine you know you have been on the -- story for the last two years I wonder are you picking up any hesitation.

Because I look at the drowns them answered the idea of special forces you know they battled back -- back and forth between does the military do it.

To the intelligence agencies do it we've seen that conversation for the last forty years now seems with -- going to have the CIA.

That drone warfare function most wars are now going to be fought at the CIA.

Do you pick up any reluctance -- questions from the military about.

While you're raising an excellent point because what most people don't realize.

Is that there are really two drone campaigns there's one that's executed by the military and the other that's executed by the CIA.

And -- can make the argument that the military program.

Is subject to more sort of set in stone rules and review an oversight.

By congress than the CIA program so your point is well taken.

By a by moving -- or elevating him to head the CIA this is someone who has really been at the forefront.

Of expanding the drone campaign under President Obama.

You do seem to concentrate the ownership or control of the drones.

Within that agency.

And what's striking to me.

Is that when you look at the legal framework for the targeted killing of American citizens.

It essentially concludes that they don't need any -- effective review.

By the courts.

Or by congress and that is something that we have never seen in this country before -- -- is arguing.

That for example the clear on more -- -- he was a good guy and he didn't have a coming as a leader of al-Qaeda in Yemen the question.

Is what kind of precedent this sets.

Does it concentrate the power to much in the hands of the president and is there any.

Effective review critics would say that the military program does have in place more effective -- limitations or controls on this power.

Okay what Catherine and I think about the love it there they are -- I'll tell you like -- -- happening in ten years and I come back we'll have a conversation.

When they investigate the CIA for the extrajudicial killings and assassinations.

Can well this is coming -- again.

-- -- -- this is coming.

This is coming I think sooner than you think because one of the issues being raised this week.

Is why the Obama administration was so eager to release the legal memos.

That the Bush Administration relied upon for the handling of the detainees including the water boarding.

Yet it's so reluctant to release the legal memos that justified the targeted killing of American citizens and that this -- the very least.

It's a double standard if not hypocritical.

-- Ever what I thought there would be a pot -- and -- and it is much fresher and a lot -- And now someone who is -- Washington that she can't possibly be hypocritical we're really excited to welcome the newest member of the house armed services committee.

Congresswoman.

Delores ski -- -- he Republican of Indiana.

-- just been talking on the -- and and just for you and now this is a great format because we get questions from our viewers that I will in turn askew.

But what -- things I think it's important for you to talk about it.

You have now seen.

Congressional hearings for Senator Kerry who's now secretary of state -- seeing -- for senator hagel who's going to be presumably confirmed as secretary of defense.

Tomorrow they'll be the hearings.

For John Brennan to be head of the CIA now although you will not vote on those confirmations because of your house seat.

What's striking -- -- your -- -- issues come up what do you think of the big issues that you will face on the house armed services committee in the next year's show.

Well I think thanks so much and I think that down there having -- I just came from hearing from house armed services committee.

And I think one of things that we see happening is that.

This sound administration seems to be talking about everything except the issues at hand that are concerning the American public and I can tell -- sitting on the house armed services committee.

You know I trust and believe that my colleagues on the senate side will do due diligence and the -- -- -- questions and and they'll make the proper.

Assessment of of these folks are being interviewed.

But but the urgency of the hour.

Is issues like sequestration.

And what's happening to our military and -- we really making wise decisions are -- just gonna stand by continue to watch the president continued to punch these issues.

I can tell you this is real stuff and I come from the great state of Indiana.

You know we have a great military presence we are a defense contractor.

And is out -- the things they're talk about a Washington maybe these -- maybe it's because I'm dale maybe it's the summer freshman.

But you know I've learned a -- in the last couple months of what it's gonna take the stand up for this military.

For continuing to be a super power and to continue to lead and and not have to follow what's happening in the rest of the world.

-- congresswoman you know our everybody now as a defense cuts are gonna happen whether we want them to or not.

Where do you think that the best place service safest place to take us defense cuts are on one hand and what areas do you think should not be -- and the defense budget.

Well I think that again I think the conversation you know and again being brand new and I wasn't here.

When they came up with this concept of sequestration you know it's a failed program.

And you know -- this is is a dream -- at the White House dreamed up.

And you know brought people together -- they call the super committee and said let's try again to find some fiscal sanity in this place called Washington and I can tell you as a female.

I am so honored to be able sit on this house on a house committee.

And to be able to represent women and to be able to articulate -- -- home why it matters.

That we have a sixteen trillion dollar debt and you know like a walk in the grocery store.

And and talk to folks and say this is why it matters that until we get this economy under control we are vulnerable as a nation.

You know our strongest asset is you know is that we have a strong economy and that we written that we remain where we are with the best most professional trained troops.

You know in the land in this world.

And might concern.

Is that you know the conversations that have been -- and the conversations that are being had right now are totally darting around the truth and the truth is this.

That we have to live within our means in this place called Washington and we have to keep our troops employee we have to take care but when they come home.

And we got to make sure that their families are a unit and they know that we care about him.

-- -- I love this country.

I ran for -- C and I'm honored humbled to be sitting on these committees.

Because I believe the message that America needs to hear.

Is that we must stay as a strong defense and bring liberty and freedom not only -- to our shores and to maintain it.

But to bring to the rest of the world for the sake of our families and for the sake of the next generation and that we can sleep at night as Americans as moms and as women.

And other families are safe and -- and that our economy will rebound.

That's the message -- -- be talking about today.

And we're not and I got one of our viewers -- just asked me to ask -- -- question.

Where is the budget right now -- what's the what's the status -- issues that -- sequestration -- everybody throws their hands up we don't even know anymore -- -- -- Well of the few people I'm I'm grateful that they set up the house armed services committee and also Budget Committee.

And we just had our first meeting.

And I am at the table with my sleeves rolled up to make sure that there is a voice of reason of Hoosier voice of common sense at this table Washington.

For the first time in a long time.

And so I can't answer your question today because we literally just met my job but stay tuned I can tell you that you know we did this in the state of Indiana.

We went from billion dollar deficits that billion dollar surpluses and we went from the bottom of the nation.

When it came to any data require mayor any grid to the top of the country and I'm proud of that.

And that's what a -- here to Washington to be at the table to be in these conversations and make sure -- -- with the American people sinister to do which is that the economy moving your produce jobs.

Well I think -- just search horrific I mean as a woman who was one -- -- I was one of the first women.

On the Senate Armed Services Committee I know twenty years ago and that was an old boys club and I think it's so terrific that you guys are new woman and the house on the committee yourself.

Have chosen to be and is committed -- say after everything that turnaround.

That you pulled off in Indiana one of the great turnarounds in American history I just.

That bush out congresswoman because I think -- I just show how much should be done and how to do it.

It's all about the -- way.

And you know I learned out of the greatest governor Mitch Daniels we did great things and our state but the reason I ran though is to make sure that there's a common sense voice at the table here.

When it comes in the military when it comes to the budget because I believe at the end of the day women know in our country.

That the only way to protect our future generations and our kids and our loved ones is to get this economy back on track to protect our military so our military can do what they're called the.

Okay what congresswoman thank you so much -- -- -- You know -- -- congress from the Republican they're Republican -- great state of Indiana and now on the house armed services committee.

And the Budget Committee and she -- got a crack -- sports in the shape after that you.

You can blank.

Thank you so much for joining us thank you every -- and I read -- public comments that we've just gotten back.

Greg says Obama is working on the budget should get it right out by the year 2019.

And then another one of our regulars is anyone listening says you have to have a budget.

Before you can get a budget cut or even months it's been four yes four years since we've got a budget.

Says that all.

-- -- take a break and come back.

We you know have had and been very clear about our.

Substantial and growing concerns about the threats of economic.

To economic and national security posed by cyber intrusions including the the theft of commercial information.

We has been cleared.

With the government of China that we need to continue to talk about this.

Okay well connected -- -- we're in our entire -- cyber hat hacking.

Cyber attacks what does it mean for your essays and joy ask is a managed to the show I'm John.

I had done -- C.

Who is co-founder and CEO of the white -- group -- no idea what that means.

He's a former navy seal a combat decorated -- computer wonder can and graduate of the United States Naval Academy.

-- -- -- to have you with us.

Now we Victoria newness has said we're all really concerned about this threat of cyber hacking how vulnerable are we John.

Hi good afternoon KT first thanks for having me it's a pleasure to be on your show.

They question.

You ask is is sort of something that gets asked every day by everybody ever run into and I don't think we really know.

We do know this we do know that.

Last year alone.

As of July.

2012.

The director of the NSA general Alexander -- come out publicly and said.

That the threats in attacks against our infrastructure alone having increased 17100%.

From the previous year and I think that that trend sort of sets the stage for.

And new paradigm where.

You're gonna see systems looking to be penetrated and attacked for various reasons no longer a singular dimension.

Focus of either espionage or criminal.

Pursuits but a whole conglomerate of reasons.

Okay what do you know -- -- journalist stories learned that there be a who what why and where and why where Broadway it's the five whose.

The five w.s who is doing a cyber attacking and hacking.

I would say.

Every one we have national -- -- players we have teams in China this teams in Russia and all the major superpowers have teams dedicated.

One level below that though is you have these.

Groups called advanced persistent threats.

In which they are ad hoc conglomerates of people that band together to -- there.

Seek out political or economic.

And states and then lastly you have -- the lone wolf players so.

I I would say that I wish I give you more of a -- -- -- about.

Hacking tools have proliferated every major component in function.

In academic skill level of society they no longer reserved for those.

Especially talented.

What we're trying to do is to somebody's trying to steal my what's the balance and my credit card.

Account is somebody trying to break in and figure out how to take down the American electric red.

Our didn't look like I get on New Orleans electric grid during the super -- what gold of these these hackers have right.

Well in most cases let's look out last week last week alone.

What's being suspected by many people that I share circles where -- has as a Chinese were behind it is an attack against the newspapers.

And that in attack against the newspapers specifically around the notion.

That Chinese leaders were about to be exposed for alleged infractions or impropriety in in dealing -- a government so.

The right there was where I think you're gonna consider it continues to focus and that is -- -- -- reputation based attacks and -- in conglomeration with.

Those attacks is an attack against the infrastructure and not so much I would say just to take money.

But also to induce a level of uncertainty into it is now -- otherwise -- a simple trust lexicon.

I mean the fact that somebody could break in a Wall Street or could change the prices of funds and or dollars on line.

Induces uncertainty in the lexicon which causes.

Okay at John I get it that the United States government is gonna protect the military I get it that they're gonna protect -- find out a way to have cyber attacks and cyber defense of the United States government.

What we do about the average citizen how -- -- protected.

-- they accounts or credit cards or.

You know the electric grid -- the water system and our house is is there anything we can do either individually or as a government.

Absolutely it is two things I'll answer quickly on that last year alone there is somebody had -- FaceBook and of the 120 million passwords they saw over 20% of those passwords was the word password.

So I think people need to be diligent and vigilant on how they change their passwords how often.

They do it and -- how how they choose their passwords and how often they change them.

So I think that that is a first line of defense for the citizen at home that's asking themselves how can I protect myself.

But secondarily in and perhaps most importantly is this increase in.

The attacks in the human infrastructure -- that is -- -- through something called spear Phishing campaigns.

We've all seen those emails that say we -- money from Nigeria or hey come pick up a UPS packaging you recall you didn't order one.

Those are perhaps than the biggest way that a citizen at home can defend against themselves.

Because what the attackers trying to do is they're trying to get into your system.

By soliciting you through a seemingly innocuous email to download something and we -- download they again.

Gain access so I think that those are two fundamental principles that are often overlooked.

-- -- about that what I started receiving a lot of my inbox are either from American Express saying please come and update your account.

Or from FedEx saying that delivery we tried to make to you.

Didn't work and I had downloading anything I'm just -- to click through.

What should -- about that.

I would call those shipping companies -- verify even a click through KT will send you to a site.

That is loaded with potential malware and if you don't remember that you should have something coming in the mail war.

The the email looks in any way.

Suspect and I'll and I'll tell you how that can be revealed.

Just read the grammar carefully.

And you can start seeing in the narrative -- the pros.

Is likely not written by somebody who is in the English language as a native speaker and I think those little telltale signs along side doing some diligence on your order history is is a step forward.

All right now let's go to the national level the infrastructure of the water system somebody snooping on us they're getting all this information.

We have no idea what they're going to use it for when they're going to use -- what can we do -- a nation to protect ourselves to protect our critical infrastructure.

This -- been a question that's been debated now for several months if not years with the with the attempt to pass various bills on the hill and Syria aware of and I think what we can do as a nation is continue to forge stronger public private partnerships.

Because that is where you have a compilation of the authorities that can act.

-- the government in the competency and intellect.

Of the private sector that is exposed to many these threats in probably adds a little bit more subject matter expertise.

Then that is which which is organic to a government legislative body so I think.

Those two entities working income grow wings need to develop a solution ahead.

Why is congress seem absolutely incapable.

Of passing any legislation that's going to do exactly what you said time.

Is if you threads in reading ability take a look at that would cause alarm and Al.

-- characterize both sides on one side of the equation is a private business people and what type of cost impact does it have to their business to conform to a new government regulation and who's gonna pay for that -- that's their concern.

Second concern of theirs is.

What type of privacy information is -- -- be now shared with the government and how can I be sure that that's protected in -- the fallout if a government system is breached.

So those -- the two -- they.

Visceral components of the private side on the government side.

There the issues revolving.

She your management of this work force and -- IRS was created to enforce a collection of tax cut taxes.

What type of system what type of legislator what type of organization is big enough for -- much depth.

To be able to cover all the different -- assets of cyber and infrastructure protection.

So I think those two areas need to be thoroughly examined and and we need to take a step back in.

Maybe take a look at innocent and -- as of fire control coat systems every building United States that has people a public place does have a fire sprinkler system.

Okay what is our baseline to every system that is connected.

28 piece of equipment of critical infrastructure and I think yet making this basic and digest of all and not feeling it -- with.

Which could be considered as frivolous statements to slip legislature and is where we really need to begin.

OK well thank you very much for explaining all that and I'm scrambling the computer scramble John I got to see former navy seal.

Naval Academy grad trip computer wonder -- and founder and CEO of white campus -- thanks so much.

Thanks so much -- have a good one.

Great well I wanna read before we got our next guest is our regular Gordon Chang.

The one of our viewers is written in this nation does not do what it should when they catch these criminals.

Cyber criminals they treat the crime as a non dangerous problem my bank accounts have been hacked causes real problems I've had my identity stolen six times.

But when they found out how the broke the law and I gave it back while it was so insulting well it sounds like this is the case for somebody blame the victim.

-- -- -- joining me is Gordon Chang expert on China North Korea the economy.

Civil hacking and we want to talk to you now quickly about we just had -- -- -- -- sort of bus driver -- and we seen this terrorism last week.

But it looks like the Chinese more than any other country.

Have a concerted attack cyber attack on the United States civilian infrastructure newspapers pentagon defense -- what's going on -- -- you name it I mean the Chinese Government the Chinese Communist Party various state enterprises state -- mentality is.

-- of all decided that the best way to get to where they wanna go is take technology.

And information from the United States.

And with regard to the New York Times it's a question of the Chinese political system.

Really fearing for survival because what they did to New York Times in October was half a story about.

Premier Wen Jiabao Stanley how they accumulated at least two point seven billion dollars in wealth -- this -- -- the entire Chinese political system.

And so the Chinese leaders want to prevent this from happening to other leaders.

What's the New York Times but they don't like the stories of New York Times is printing so there hacking but are they gonna take down an air times web -- what are they gonna do.

Well in this case all they did was they read the emails of two reporters who were involved in putting together the story about premier -- -- like they've really left everybody else alone.

But -- -- if -- can hacking into the email accounts of two reporters they can do anything they want because they had the email.

Passwords of everybody.

So really it's a -- shot across the -- Yes OK let's turn -- the 2 the Pacific western Pacific there's a series of islands that the Chinese and the Japanese claim.

And they're both going after the Chinese and the Philippines.

-- I'm also going after certain -- there seems to be a much more aggressive position in China.

Why.

And what's -- going to do.

Well the Chinese have now started to push against almost all their neighbors to.

India in the south and South Korea in the north they want the territory of other nations and I think part of it is because of the distress inside the Chinese system right now.

And so basically Beijing is trying to distract attention from people of people from their own internal problems also I think the Chinese military are starting to break free of civilian control.

It really means that when you have a political system in disarray the hard line elements get to set the tone for the rest of the country.

-- -- Chinese military at all that's.

Why I think that they aren't really pushing beyond their borders also the other thing they're doing which is conservatives they want the entire south Tennessee to be an internal Chinese -- To deny freedom of navigation to the US.

And also Chinese military officers.

Are talking in public and they've been doing this for about two years now about waging a war on the United States what's really concern is that.

Now China's civilian leaders are also getting in -- getting engaged in this war talk.

So you have it not only from this military officers but from the civilians so try to right now is extremely dangerous.

And what happens you know -- -- Clinton famously said you don't pick a fight with your banker.

Does the United States confront China for you this.

Well we need to confront China in order to keep the peace because last year we allowed the Chinese to take -- Rochelle from the fill out -- -- that Scarborough troll is off southwest off the Philippines it is in basically the South China Sea.

And the Chinese wanted to.

Because they want everything in the South China -- we have a mutual defense treaty with the Philippines.

We're we're obligated to defend territory that Manila administers and Scarborough show was in fact administered by the Philippines.

We allowed the Chinese to take -- away.

Now they're thinking that they can take away these islands from Japan in the East China Sea which Japan administers.

So what we're having is a country that is just not satisfied with these small gains they now want more.

-- -- -- -- -- -- Well up with sometimes the best questions on the show -- from the viewers and in this case absolutely the best comes from.

Kitty and says mr.

Chang is North Korea really targeting New York for -- nuclear strike.

There was have video yesterday right looking like it's exactly what I would consider it an American city.

They will be able to incinerate New York into another five years or so what about price -- I think I -- -- credit.

And you can do that but the north Koreans can reach Alaska Hawaii and maybe the northern part of the West Coast right now with a missile we don't think that they actually have a nuclear warhead at this time.

But really it's just a matter of time it's no longer an issue of science.

Pulled -- north Koreans need is about.

Three for five years to be able to put a nuclear -- On top of the missile and send it to anywhere on earth they demonstrated that in December with a successful inserting a -- a satellite in orbit.

If you can put a satellite into orbit even a wobbly one which is what they did.

If you can do that with a few adjustments you can land a nuclear warhead almost anywhere.

And -- -- -- north Koreans very best friends and co producers and as well -- problem clearly China April 15 parade last year we saw a Chinese mobile missile launchers.

Which substantially increases North Korea's ability to wage a nuclear war -- The United States said nothing about this in public there was only -- minor leak from the White House Stafford to the New York Times.

What we need to have -- some public conversations with the Chinese about proliferating the most dangerous technologies to the north Koreans.

We don't have a North Korea problem we got to China.

As searchers say his name and shame after this behind close doors -- publicly analysts say it's and you know it's not only that is if that doesn't work we really need to start thinking about our trade relations with China are diplomatic relations.

Because they are disseminating technologies not just to the north Koreans but to the Iranians.

Which those two countries can use to create.

An unimaginable.

Event.

So in other words North Korea may develop the technology but then Iran has -- Shortly thereafter -- reasons have been selling everything that they have.

To the Iranians not only ballistic missiles but also nuclear technology.

That's September 2007 the Israelis destroyed in North Korean reactor in Syria and that was paid for in all probability not by the Syrians who don't have the money but by the Iranians.

-- okay well doctor Gordon Chang genius expert on North Korea China and everything we should be worried about.

Thanks so much for joining us -- thank you -- He OK now you know if you're talking about drones are talking about cyber hacking attack about the -- you know -- you're really concerned about.

Really care -- Aaron delivery of the -- it's -- how we are getting more comments on the mail service being cut on Saturday as.

When we asked you do you -- that the US Postal Service -- and Saturday mail delivery.

You set up for I've email service OK so -- says as in the Borough America I have survived by parade watchers are getting mail.

As viewers once a week and as much as four times a week.

It is too -- to drive to the post office every day Saturday mail service at.

All.

And Chris says the government is incapable of -- -- -- efficient efficiently eventually they will limit delivery to every other Tuesday.

Kitty says I would prefer no Saturday postal delivery increased for a little -- -- without being concerned about the -- -- contents.

And out of this make -- miss that -- hands as I never get to the -- -- at some time apart closes on Saturday same thing happens to -- in my -- so it won't matter to me.

GM and Delphi -- in Flint, Michigan that affects me the post office -- in on Saturday.

I don't care.

Well thank you very much and I guess we can see that much -- -- -- don't care to about Saturday post office to leverage that may come as a great shock.

To your health -- Thanks very much for watching Jeff country.

You're on here on -- next week and national security issues but tomorrow morning to an end to Fox -- Jack come on eleven for.

More exciting programming -- the day.

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