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What what -- your -- Ron Kuby criminal defense civil rights attorney.
He is successfully sued the city of New York numerous civil rights cases involving police misconduct.
Was also and is a great radio host -- -- air America -- WABC radio morning show Curtis and Kuby for years which was.
Very successful -- thank you run -- don't.
Alan how -- you thank you for recounting by my radio career a class actions and -- They belong and radio man I get very good then in a perfect for a time in -- -- the club and you have been very sex sexual -- mentioned it is silly New York City anyone who would you take is on the latest issue which is not good enough press as far as I'm concerned that they have now for years been spying on Muslims and civil rights people are now starting to raise hackles about.
Well you know it's an interesting dilemma that we we now know really -- see the circuit city of so incredibly good reporting by the associated press and by Adam Goldman.
That debt for for -- close to a decade.
Commissioner police commissioner Ray Kelly has really run his own.
Army navy air force counterintelligence.
Operation with with spies.
All over the world including intelligence operations directed specifically -- Muslims and Islamic institutions.
Where he's infiltrated undercover agents to to spy on public meetings infiltrated them to houses of worship.
And and certain the most striking thing about all of this surveillance.
Taking down the names.
Is that none of it has ever led to any single.
Debt that is there's never been a well we get all these things but look at what we've -- changed.
And -- they achieved nothing except to create full employment for the new York city police to.
He has got he has said you've actually I think -- this quote if if over police by tenants civil liberties of people complain violence there's -- -- under police there's a smoking crater in -- thousands are dead.
So what should I did so I guess he's erring on the side is he wrong.
When he looks at them.
Well well well look you know that the job of the police commissioner.
Is to err on the side of caution look I -- in New York -- as as you and your loved ones.
-- none of this one has seen my clients blow the trumpet the city and I understand why the police commissioner.
-- as -- I will overdo things rather than under do.
But there needs to be -- attack on the police commissioner and that usually should be.
The mayor of the city of New York or the federal courts or some -- other oversight and that's just what we understand why anyone do this.
But our job is to make sure -- people both enjoy security.
And a -- picture of liberty and that's what's been strikingly absent.
Over the past.
And there's no checks and balances only Bloomberg is apparently on board as is the CIA apparently as you pointed out in a Kelly has been working with.
Federal agencies of support what he's doing.
We're right there that are actually pretty happy.
Good to see -- commissioner Kelly errors.
Those -- as close to him call him colonel Kelly.
Basically being the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff his own.
Integrated military force.
-- It's a little disturbing for those of us who believe in civil liberties and and and don't like that form of policing.
On the other element in all fairness DP in this tough topic for talk radio because it's complicated.
And it's -- wants to.
Probably wouldn't want to do that and yeah I don't know that I am here is that you know people say I want -- I I Canada fox radio network but some of -- -- -- -- conservatives and animals liberals and review actually avenue lunch and many liberals who.
-- You know complex.
Questions -- complicated but but but it's complicated I'm not convinced anything Ray Kelly is doing.
Is against the -- law.
That is to say the police have the same -- as anybody else to make observations in public places to walk in the houses of worship.
To take notes to take pictures to do everything else.
And that's what it says -- gone -- -- we going -- public places where serving.
Nobody any and that average citizen can do it why can't the police to.
And I'm not convinced as a legal matter -- he's wrong about that I think he's probably right.
Let let's go past the legal question is you know I I have the legal right to do all kinds of things I can the legal right no I'm not your city -- outside your city.
Walk down the street with a shotgun on my shoulder.
You know fully -- screaming racial -- you do about it and what up what I do you.
Just just just just give the -- -- the -- to do -- thing doesn't make it the right thing to do.
The issue is what kind of country they wanna live in a country we spy -- people because they speak her due because they have but the look of a particular skin tone -- That we -- what we want are calling card to be ethically and morally.
What is -- -- -- that's right and that has to be of course balanced against two results.
If -- -- could say as a result of our.
Ten year long infiltration.
Of mosques and student organizations.
On campuses and everything else.
We foiled seven terror plots.
Or whatever even one.
At least we the public could could make an informed decision about the balance.
None of that happened none of these things would lead to anything which suggests that even though it's not illegal.
-- -- colossal.
Waste of resources.
And it's a colossal abuse of trust.
And you're gonna have some people say but it makes me feel better because I know with being one they're being watched and -- -- the people who hurt us on nine elevenths you know we've lost more people.
More Americans have died since 9/11 in -- the commission of doing stuff in reaction 9/11 actually -- and I analog.
Why and what Alan and I recognize.
That it is -- profoundly good thing to make its citizenry sleep well at night.
The trouble is.
This doesn't really do that there because those of us that actually work in the area of international terrorism.
And I worked in -- in -- from the standpoint.
Criminal defense lawyer who represents these folks.
But it still gives me access to information that the general public doesn't have yeah.
The most important thing and I think most people agree with me on this and know what they're talking about the most important thing to whaling actually stopping terror plots.
He's human intelligence.
Spent -- what you get human intelligence is is to make people feel debt they will be treated fairly.
So if uncle Perry or in this case on -- -- Is dipping in the basement.
You know doing weird things with strings smells and coming back upstairs talking about the infidels.
You want to feel that if you call the police uncle were actually at least will be treated.
Ferrell right bomb and that it isn't terrorists then he will be punished but if he's just crazy -- In the you know they'll say okay provide.
And and you lose that measure of comfort when.
-- you present yourself as constantly infiltrating invading and -- upon.
The Islamic community.
I wonder if we're gonna see and they you know where we're not.
-- only in new York and we -- -- all over the country so but this is important terms of what kind of country do we want to be and the fact that the feds in DC are supporting this.
And supporting with New York is doing.
And it just sends a terrible signal to Muslims let's say if you what are we spying and you do you look a certain way actress or the way we hear certain language -- -- your -- We -- in -- -- we just might eavesdropping on you that that is just a horrible.
That's the that's just the distance that's not America it's not the America.
Thanks to leave you with a good talent -- when you go beyond -- -- if somebody asks you OK well in an act the American why is this bad.
What -- It's discrimination it's targeting a particular ethnicity.
-- that the ethnicity ethnicity being targeted they're the ones committing the terrorists that.
Not all of them -- -- -- and a very small percentage of -- that's like saying that because the certain -- escrow -- -- what did it.
Yeah that's right and what your problem with that.
It singles out a particular ethnicity and and in fact -- thinking about it.
-- here here's the problem you and I and I and I think you you know it intuitively.
The American people.
-- today and historically.
Has always been willing to sacrifice.
Some one else's rights.
For their own security.
So if some guy who actually be a businessman from Venezuela but he looks like an era.
Wine at the airport.
And -- gets taken no room for interrogation that's OK but I have to take up much.
-- Thank -- Much.
Not be viewed as an extra -- right exactly it's not for me but it's for you without -- little.
Well I think that the best kinds.
Anti terrorism measures and the democracy are those.
That target every.
We all go through this same process we overthrew the same line we all read through the same process.
And if we think it did it's not worth that and we can make our voice heard through the electoral process.
I run I wish I were -- more time I'm always thrilled to argue I Michelin radio and thank you very much for Todd and it was here tonight always a pleasure you take it -- very much Ron Kuby criminal defense and civil right to turn a lawyer and also terrific talk show host.
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