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Have any doubt that the historic enemies of this country found a point.
Where they could damage the health of our common -- -- we have seen cases of this in history we've seen lots of cases of this history.
Well that was fed vice president of Venezuela.
Announcing that his boss.
Former President Hugo Chavez is dead can't that the United States gave in cancer.
Well welcome to Defcon three and other exciting stories for the -- ever talk about cyber hacking we're gonna talk about the plague and locusts.
Affecting Egypt and we're gonna talk about Venezuela.
Our country that is probably the richest country in the world for.
Natural resources or -- Gold hand your -- and joining us today is for NASA Norman the she's a senior fellow at the -- policy and research institute.
And an expert on Venezuela and on the connection between -- round around.
Thank you so much for making time that I was a very busy day for.
Predicting this for awhile I happen.
Why is the significance of his staff were visiting -- you for having me on yeah it's a joy to be here again.
The significance is.
I'll lose -- also the cult leader of the -- personality he had positioned himself very much as it Christ figure.
I said he was carrying on the -- of Christ and defend the rights of the war.
They call them that the price of Latin America's for a so is that -- was taking a blow by the loss and but don't expect it to be some movement to be gone I mean they don't -- half a century ago that the reason is still going in Argentina.
So it will go and we'll continue on I think also if they do hold the elections assistant that they who have and you know following the constitution which.
They don't they usually don't -- tell -- what's new this morning and this time.
Then and then they send a very good chance of winning the -- estimates additional action that the constitution doesn't have to be an election within thirty days yet.
And they anticipate.
That sent vice president will be the new president.
Right he will be reelected to be very -- -- happy to -- president.
You while he I she should be coming.
Just because they could -- the money -- the Electoral College has the -- game and you know in the neighborhoods.
Has you know complete control of the the government and the money the opposition just had an election against Travis.
In October and they're out of money and it there won't be able to raise some money -- that quickly.
Mind you not because -- doesn't have the personality Travis says the election -- later on maybe.
And it and the opposition and -- pick up in the post you would stand -- chance.
But I think within thirty days he's still sort of wearing the -- ride being the anointed successor of Hugo Chavez and that plus infrastructure is -- -- -- carry on the program right so the program is taking all that you know Robin Hood -- take in all the financial resources of the country's natural resources.
And then turning them over to the people but.
First sort of sort of our company's -- not really turning it over to the people.
Basically what the people get these no handouts in these needs Jonas so if you want food -- you want to pair of eyeglasses you want that are medical care we want to learn how to read and write.
If you bypass these institutions the official institutions of the schools the hospitals and clinics that would there and you go to one of these news Jonas and you register to say.
You know we'll -- Travis are now you laden -- moto I guess.
And that you will vote for them and that therefore they will give you what you want.
So I might get -- -- a child who would have been running for the presidency.
Before our in the primaries -- -- -- an audio that -- loves the sport he loves to keep them for.
Sort of the allegations is that he is basically created a country of beggars.
-- -- has to sort of come to him for the no handouts and I -- and you've written about that relationship between Venezuela.
And Iran and then -- -- -- -- Ahmadinejad a marriage made in hell right that you have guys who just -- each other working together.
This mean for Iran's foothold in -- well I'm looking forward to the funeral on.
-- it -- I mean that's going to be a spectacle imagine it.
I mean already the Latin American NAFTA started turning up -- President Putin and -- -- -- -- -- apple really have -- -- while.
I expect them to by the way but who actually knows -- What it means is that of course but do -- -- -- is not only vice president he was the foreign secretary who brokered all these agreements.
He is mr.
Iran he is mr.
Cuba he is mr.
So he has all of their support -- so there's a sort of a -- political plot tools to keep him in power.
And they need to keep them in power so at it's there it's very important to them.
Okay so what's our stake in this is there in the elections in thirty days is there.
A pro American candidate I know that Chavez has been anti American.
You know we have a new secretary of state now we have a clean slate -- is this an opportunity for the United States is somehow influence but not look like we're stepping all over well I.
I mean I would hope so although there's -- there Vista that is.
That -- Chevy says can't be seen to change tactic has some basic.
-- we love America right when they run on this you know.
I think the Photokina yes that is that America gave Travis can staff and the holes narrative is you need us because without us and America will invade.
They can turn around and say the love America however they're going broke.
Seriously -- And have already had to devalue the kind of that currency which has brought up the price of food.
They've had to know where the subsidies on gasoline which is by the way how tennis got into power in the first place -- an 89 that huge riots -- that.
And that led to the 92 coup attempt that made -- here out.
You know they're very Dicey water so they're going to have to be a little bit more practical.
But if they do you get practical -- will be sort of through the back channels but you know ironically I think Obama's statement of sorry to hear about thomas' death and really hope you followed him a democracy it's kind of all that the American continue rights are -- a candidate that we can -- yes or or somehow okay.
Open it alerts not up not opening and make it competitive -- -- who will be the opposition candidate who was in an October.
Is pharma is actually from a wealthy family I educated speaks outs and if you went to English I think he's probably American educated actually.
And has this is pro pro America.
But cannot be seen -- side.
I did he get if he wins or he at some point becomes an impress America would be felt we would be thrilled and then as a whole new direction unless you know that would absolutely be a whole new direction for the country.
She quickly about the other sick guy and the universe right and that's -- the Castro Boris -- what happens there.
If Castro followed Chavez into the great unknown is -- another opportunity for the enhances.
I don't know I thinks some.
Some friends of mine who actually in a -- recently -- think that actually.
Kendall followed with a China model -- open up economically well it open up you know trying -- up economically.
And have that sort of Communist capitalists model.
That so I think that might be an opportunity and actually.
And if you go to Cuba the Cubans don't.
Hate the Americans so much as they hate the Cubans in Miami -- -- yeah the people they absolutely do not want to hear from did not want that.
But that average person in -- as well -- that really.
We don't really hate the Americans so much and and actually now quite a lot of American tourists.
You have an actor.
Has the lock it quickly is they're.
What happens -- has a -- you talked about training camps in Venezuela.
Or do they continue and what are they are what are they therefore you have they do they do continue and that's one of the concerns about you know the potential.
For violence and and don't forget they kicked out the two American military attache and the US embassy about.
Two or three hours before they announced -- is death.
And so there's there's definitely you know trying cut the channels of information to the US and I think that you know have military.
As one of the risks that might happen is that.
If the -- -- thing and this is a possible scenario that I don't think it's likely one.
If that took resisting that they're going to lose an election they might staged their own crew also states congress -- -- out there another chapter counted.
Arlen -- van -- -- and thank you so much for joining us are giving us.
Your expertise on Venezuelan -- that America thank you for having any kids that I think we're gonna take a break and then come back and talk about the latest on the Golan Heights we've just got to news alerts they wanna come right back and here what's going on there.
I welcome back to Defcon three I'm -- team at brown and joining us.
Now from the Jerusalem bureau is Conor -- the latest of what's happening in Syria -- What's gone on.
-- -- here really bizarre situation unfolding around the Golan Heights on in the Syrian side of the Golan Heights of the UN is now reporting that 21 of their peacekeepers.
Who basically patrol the no man's land between Israel and Syria have now been taken by Syrian rebels.
Now the UN has said they dispatched the team to help negotiate the release of their peacekeepers but is it really bizarre situation because -- most people they view that the UN has been very.
Much pro rebels helping the rebels and and really condemning the Asad regime so why rebels within kidnap -- detained UN peacekeepers is sort of a mystery.
But there is no real answer to who who has done this or why they've done that's part of what we're trying to find out but certainly.
There's a lot of confusion right now in that area right now we're also hearing that.
A real staggering number out of Syria right now the UN is now saying that one million Syrians.
-- register with united nation as refugees.
The UN says half of them are children under the age eleven in -- and -- sign of just how bad things are getting in Syria right now.
In the last two months 400000.
Of those one million refugees.
Are new they register with the UN just in the last two months -- things have clearly gotten.
Really -- -- worse in Syria in the past two months or so we've seen heavier fighting.
Moving year areas in Damascus and allowed -- -- and we just got reports of course.
That the city of Iraq and the province of -- to have been now taken over by rebels three -- expect to see an increase of fighting for really -- -- staggering numbers coming out of Syria right now Casey.
Okay -- Conner -- in Jerusalem bureau thank you so much for that report.
I was just with the senior American military leader yesterday and talking about the situation Syria and he said however bad it is now.
It will only get -- and -- was reference in the million refugees.
Along with those nine refugees -- going to camps they're going to camps and Jordan -- going to camps in Lebanon.
And and they could well faster who knows who's with those refugees and what it -- do with and it's destabilize the countries to which.
Those refugees have -- It's sad situation all around and -- to explain it all to us as Isabel komen.
From the council on foreign relations she -- and bought the author of a fabulous book.
About women in the Middle East and -- -- you were in Egypt two years ago when two -- swear an Arab Spring broke out I remember seeing you just before you left for the airport.
And you've been following this all the way through.
What it to go back to go to it.
Egypt for a minute what is a situation in Egypt everywhere so hopeful two years ago but now it looks like Egypt could well -- on that on the verge of that's starvation between.
There need to import -- their lack of money to do it and the plague of locusts which seems to have descended upon -- -- you you wonder when it and it you know Kenny get worse and and then he and then you have locusts and and it's worse.
Egypt has at had a very rocky time of -- revolutions are not easy when -- Throwing out the old and trying to build something new it's it's it's very very challenging and Egypt's -- it -- Very difficult.
Economic situation it is.
Facing a very severe balance of payments crisis it's running out of hard currency reserves foreign exchange.
It's been in negotiations with the -- for.
-- for years now trying to close this nearly five billion dollar loan from the I -- mapped out which it hasn't yet been able to do.
Act and as as you mentioned -- it's facing some pretty severe.
Crunch when it comes to foreign exchange reserves to buy.
We eat Egypt's largest wheat importer in the world so.
But all of its political changes are taking place in -- very difficult economic environment.
She expected that -- what we see now the government of -- Morrissey and the constitution has been -- is this where it's going to stay or is it likely.
That there's even more social unrest and potentially you know coups violence more demonstrations ahead for Egypt.
What year I had I I would hardly predict smooth sailing from here on out you had such deep divisions in society you have.
Large parts of society that rejects the constitution that say it's not inclusive that they didn't.
Buy into it they didn't sign onto it they reject to hold portions of that tonight you have the opposition the national.
Salvation front -- saying that they're going to boycott the parliamentary elections.
You have some groups say they're gonna participate but overall you have.
The main opposition.
Coalition saying they're going to boycott this is not a recipe for reconciliation -- and smooth sailing by any means and the riots going on imports -- -- -- particularly worried you know now you have.
Writing and lawlessness and this is the type of thing where the military is -- warned if it got.
Really out of control they they would step -- -- Suez Canal which is what you just made reference import site.
We always think of that conflict in the Middle East are the real choke point in the Middle East is the Strait of Hormuz in the Persian gulf and Iran.
But one part of the world we're not really focus that much on is the Suez Canal itself which sits Astride the Sinai Peninsula.
Do you think that there's any danger to the Suez Canal being close to any kind of terrorist activity that might challenge the ability.
Of all the goods that flow from Europe and through the Suez Canal and Asia.
There's always a risk.
You know this is.
The crown jewel for the egyptians of there you know they look at it -- in in pure national security terms in economic terms it's.
It's really -- the lifeline of the economy in many ways.
Take enormous precautions to protect.
The Suez Canal.
But never say never I mean that.
Saudis feel the same way about.
-- oil fields and yet we've seen terrorists trying to launch attacks there they've not been successful but you never -- We just wash -- united talking now we've just seen some demonstrations in -- the kind of what you're talking about it.
One placard on one thing that we are seeing is signs that say -- go home.
And tied John Kerry anti US.
John Kerry are not welcome.
He's just been there what is the effective.
Well what you're seeing on the streets is is bitterness towards the United States particularly from the secular opposition who feel that.
United States has.
Abandon them -- it's cozy up too much to the Muslim Brotherhood and has not supported.
That liberal secular opposition sufficiently and I I think there's.
There's some truth to that the fact is that.
Week we have -- it's kind of business as usual with the new powers that be which is Mohamed -- in the Muslim Brotherhood and and by doing so.
Implication is you know that's the way it's going to be and and these other groups are a little bit out in the cold and what you're -- in those signs is.
Frustration anger that has been building over the last two years from those more secular groups.
Against US policy -- -- -- Here is what I was struck cat and you and I talked about this before that -- -- Arab Spring started the one -- you never -- on Egypt or elsewhere with the American flag being burned.
It was somehow whatever was happening and that part of the world we weren't blamed for -- the only times we haven't been blamed for problems in the Middle East.
But now where congress is considering maybe we shouldn't give the -- the 259.
Aid to Egypt -- reference International Monetary Fund.
Loans that are coming and we proxy in the US about maybe we should with -- some of the military equipment that's scheduled to go to Egypt.
What should we in fact -- slow -- -- slow walk on this -- and if we do what's the ramification what the US Israeli Egyptian relations.
Well I I think that.
You know our our influence is you know we shouldn't overstate our influence we do have economic levers and you mentioned -- -- Matthew mentioned our bilateral aid.
And that at the end of the day in in the Egyptian government is not going to jump through hoops to please the United States but.
Where the opposition gets gets angry I think is that the US has done two little.
To support those groups and and has proceeded business as usual is not fit into the military aid we just.
We just have okayed a big deal on on F sixteens to Egypt delivering those.
And you know.
And yet the Egyptian government has restricted the activity of of foreign funding for NGOs for civil society.
-- -- the backbone of many of these liberal secular groups but we're saying you know you should be using -- leverage to.
Have a more progressive Ngo law act to support civil society and I'm in a more open way and I'm sure behind the scenes the US is doing that.
But how much you know it's really hard to to say and are we doing it sufficiently well.
The Los hasn't the law hasn't changed and these groups are being starved in many respects and and they're feeling the pinch.
Okay what is Isabel Coleman who's a senior -- counts on for our relations author of a really great read.
About but is it paradise.
Paradise beneath your feet how women are transforming the Middle East and you know that -- One of the few positive.
Signs on on an otherwise somewhat bleak horizon has been the remarkable mobilization of women across the region.
As as part of these Arab uprisings I can tell you I've got to the -- on foreign relations meetings and when Isabel Coleman speaks.
You have never seen more women show up at the council on foreign relations.
To find out what is happening to women in the Middle East so thank you so much for taking time Katie -- -- -- and I thank you very much Ankiel.
Okay ever gonna take a quick break and then come back and talk about.
What else sees a war.
I welcome -- to death country -- I don't know about you but the whether it really makes me mad is when I have to go through airport security.
So that Fox News social media question of the day allows you to weigh in on.
But obviously a hot topic.
Think that now that they -- can't they -- money to have White House stores janitors on Capitol Hill.
It now is the time to buy a new TSA uniforms where it.
Fifty million of your dollars.
Weigh in on it and we'll talk about the results of this unofficial policy emotional.
Now we've got a guy who I've been wanting to get on his chauffeur while ice and author of a book called.
Paul -- -- firmer justice's secretary of Homeland Security.
We're delighted to have you with us.
We want to talk about how conflicts in cyberspace challenge America and are changing the world.
Now I've you've talked about things like how -- we defend against cyber attacks from China but before we even get there why should talk about what's the current state.
A cyber war cyber attack the cyber world.
Thanks for having me.
It goes right to it great to be on -- the current state of affairs is really one in which our offense beats defense every time.
Which is to say that no matter at all what you do.
All the nodes on the network are vulnerable.
And everything is on the network now they're over a trillion.
Attached to the cyberspace network in one form or another.
And that includes not just the web pages that you hire are used to think about but also the one -- in your car you're the GPS and your cellphone.
The insulin pump that's inside your chest is somewhere on the network Chris it's addressed -- with a chip all these are potentially vulnerable to attack.
Most importantly for our consideration things like up the electric grid here in New York City all out war.
Always -- treatment facilities the air traffic control system.
All of them at least potentially subject to infiltration intrusion and attack how we defend ourselves.
Well defense is not really.
A complete solution -- there's no national lying here that will keep the Germans out of France for forever all of them.
What we really need to do.
Is reduce the risk is best we can and that involves things like.
Doing a better job of sharing information about cyber security threats and vulnerabilities.
-- within the government and within the private sector.
And it involves things like building in resiliency to systems kind of like the medical system we expect to get sick -- trying to write -- how to get.
Get healthy afterwards instead of assuming that you're never going to get sick again.
Those types of technical fixes are going to make it possible to recover more quickly but we're never going to avoid all attacks just like whenever one of what being sick.
A -- we've been reading about -- if there's a building.
In China and they're devoted to cyber hacking the United States defense industry.
Everything the computer systems of every major corporation the United States.
They're doing it to us we don't know quite why are we doing an effective and a.
Yes well that's that's a great report from just couple weeks -- unit 61398.
Is a part of the people's liberation army of China and it's been a dedicated unit for the last five years or so that is hacking in not just to.
The defense industrial -- -- to military secrets but also stealing intellectual property.
From oil companies for example in Coca-Cola was apparently it target as well.
I got I got the secret -- yes well they may -- And the Soviets into question are we doing to that is.
Yes probably for national security reasons but in general the US government doesn't steal business secrets and give them to GM we don't steal -- That plus of course the Chinese don't have the type tumor types in quality of intellectual.
Property secrets that are of value to us right.
OK so what it was so what do we do.
I mean if you say that deterrence I mean the defense is ever going to be perfect.
I've we're gonna -- -- threatening mammoth we're gonna steal your secrets if you keep stealing ours they don't they don't have health care where it's CNN so let me so what what's -- solution.
We have to find a different way of getting their attention on.
We haven't really hit on that yet and we're still trying to develop a policy here's here's here's one suggestion.
On the thing that.
China is most concerned about his social stability.
-- what what.
Will destabilize the regime and upset the status quo is not stealing intellectual property but information flooding into time.
They work very hard in cyberspace to prevent that with a great Chinese firewall -- I censorship wall.
-- maybe it's time for America to think about poking holes some great Chinese firewall and our motto should be let a thousand tweets bloom in China.
And then Ben just stand back and watch what happens well that but it would certainly get their attention I think that if they realize that we were doing that -- to stop stealing intellectual property -- as a trade off.
I mean I've I've talked to remain my my kids are collagen.
One of the things have been struck with is how any American University -- foreign university has so many Chinese students who are studying abroad and he and the first thing they do when I get to the United States open -- FaceBook account actions -- all reference and the first thing that they have to give up.
When I go back to China is their FaceBook account.
Well I mean if you want another answer one of the things we should do is we should try and keep as many of those Chinese people here are our best and -- us.
spears said Iran we've seen or at least we think we've seen and probably when you were at the Department of Homeland Security.
The cyber attacks that presumably the United States and Israel had on Iran's nuclear centrifuges the stuff sent on the flame virus do Q.
Important well it it certainly the case that cyber command must be working on something like that right having already done it in for.
Before one instance they would be foolish if they didn't do it more.
All on the other hand it's also quite likely that the Ronnie and have stepped up their game they've improved substantially in cyberspace.
-- since -- stocks have.
In what we've seen counterattacks from them -- with the up PNC.
Bank and Bank of America that -- denial of service attack -- all that took us off point that was kind of their warning to -- that we are probably.
A little vulnerable as well and we are going to have access.
Just from China but it's from Iran Iran.
We've -- attacks from North Korea for gosh sakes I think that don't have anybody who has had an editor rockets well yeah -- Well I thank you so much for joining us -- -- why former deputy to secretary of Homeland Security is book is cyber warfare and I just have one terrific comment from Scotty.
-- monitor several fire -- both personal and corporate.
He sees several hundred to several thousand attacks each and every day on his firewalls.
Airport stamps intrusion attempts glad sometimes denial of service.
Types so he's somebody who is a small guy.
Small -- of that an even he is seeing a lot of reports you know well it's it's -- it's begin dangerous world out there in the time we've been talking.
Over 2000 pieces of malware has been discovered oh my god lets up and out on your computer.
-- think you so much for joining us for Defcon three.
Will see you again next week at 1 o'clock eastern and tomorrow morning.
Fox News Akram live comes right back and -- through the latest of -- right now in the World Bank's return.
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