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Finale comes away -- pennies and welcome to the program -- -- with your microphone to -- bell.
Who is now written what we talk about we talk about -- he's best selling author international teacher and speaker.
-- -- -- wins velvet Elvis sex god Jesus wants to save Christians.
And drops like stars you let's -- also does a lot of attention love winds though.
Pastor bill what do you think you're so controversial.
Well I started out the past their mind.
Job with the help people find that in the highs and the lows and everything in between but that's what interests me and if it doesn't help -- connect with someone.
What do you think what do you think by the them -- love wins before get onto your new book.
I think that that's inherent nature of religion.
Is it can easily lead people to think they're right everybody else is wrong and you start talking about a god who loves everybody.
For some people that can be threatening.
You came -- the gay marriage recently on this book tour and I guess that really upset some people to -- Well once again.
Like a couple nights ago -- city I was in a young couple came up to me late twenties and she said that she found out the day before that she has stage four cancer.
And as she said that to me it was it's an amazing moment her husband put his arm around and I see his eyes Welling up with tears and she says.
Could you pray for me so that's sort of where I live here -- -- with people who are going through things like stage four cancer and they'd like prayer.
So that protest or somebody who -- what -- do controversy Felix it's not focused on my work but I try to just keep going trying to help people find out.
On this a new book what we talk about when we talk about god this has to do with.
Everybody's got a different vision of what god is there's no right vision I guess is there.
Well and that really compelling question in what sort of drive the book is simply.
Your conception of god -- you it either makes you into a more compassionate courageous.
I'm peacemaking kind of person in the world or our conceptions of god don't shape -- know that.
Kind of person but I'm interested in is what views of god and I sort of lay out -- book is.
Is that a way of understanding god that I believe actually help make us better people -- We can all agree that kind of the point which -- I agree I would hope so I thought that's what Jesus taught but you know yeah I'm not particularly.
If -- But that could go back to your original question.
I actually am not saying anything new as a Christian I'm simply trying to recover.
Beautiful world changing message of Jesus that the first people who murdered that now that's good news he thought not to worry and to be compassionate not to be -- -- -- and to be courageous and I'm actually simply trying to recover some.
Absolutely essential messages intrude but I believe -- -- a lot along the way.
Now do you believe that that one can be saved even if one is not a Christian.
Or other interesting thing.
About these -- actual word is he speaks to the and how we all belong to god and that it's a mystery these sorts of things I can answer that Ellen.
But you know.
Well -- so many Christians I've interviewed do answer it.
In the negative and then as you know and say well the only way they knowingly to the -- -- -- me they put that part of the Bible.
And they're not there intransigent about the notion that anybody could get there without going through -- -- are being saved.
When -- talked about going through them.
That could take on all sort of the interesting shapes and forms and not what I understand either method -- to trust him.
Do believe in him and to trust.
Others to him as well but I believe god loves everybody and that includes you and that includes me and I'll let god sort that out.
Yeah but that I obviously Christian doctrine strict Christian -- and -- fundamental doctrine orthodoxy.
You know runs away screaming from that point of view and like I got -- issue here a lot from those people about how dare you was a Christian say.
That there are other ways to have -- other than through Jesus.
Well well I would I would point out orthodoxy.
Along the line always left the room the feel Laden's call it but -- wouldn't -- it.
So -- generosity and that might become for her but they offensively that you always.
You can appreciate that you can talk about it you can talk about isn't the only way and you can call people who believe -- him and followed him that you always leave room for the mysterious grace and love of god which will always be bigger.
Than any label our system.
That you placed around the.
You point out for example that we we ask -- -- -- what do you do with people who aren't like Q what do you do with with the other what do you do with a person who is hardest to love.
Isn't that truly when you -- in -- with your christianity when you can.
Love those who maybe aren't the easiest people to look.
Yes exactly and that's actually it's -- really important point and one that I sort of come up come through again and again in and that the book had just written is the mark.
A powerful vital -- It's how it changed you in terms of the people that you wouldn't most likely turn into your enemies.
Are you more -- more compassionate.
Are you more likely to -- move toward the people that you normally would move away from -- -- is that of the greatest commandment in the -- love god and love others.
They're there as a very real measuring stick there -- the sort of litmus test does.
Create and use this kind of character and courage and I think that -- question -- lots of people.
Are acting because traditional.
For many people conceptions of -- that they've encountered didn't actually.
Transform their heart like it was supposed he was so they're looking for new insight into -- which is what I'm.
Try playing with this book.
Rob bell is our -- his book is what we talk about when we talk about god when you think -- god what vision comes to mind.
What does -- look like and why is god -- can you or -- your experience.
And the vital I thought in the book in the Bible book I -- I talk about that.
They got -- unbelievable with the right here right now at least four desires are flourishing is actually ahead of so those are more confident.
To be honest with you -- in terms of an image.
A ball comes to mind a song that you hear that.
Move you that you can move to.
Putting out -- the -- that actually the first that it becomes the -- and not -- people talk about it that talk about ways to talk about it.
Distracting out all of the range.
And that is that we have.
I'm for god and Jesus used this phrase the kingdom that liked what he referred to godlike that god is like -- Here's a picture here than -- is -- the metaphor.
Which is the power of this sort of language.
Is not something outside of us -- got something inside -- I would say yes.
Yes and actually in the Hebrew tradition they spoke both I didn't dwelling divine presence.
And they spoke.
This same god it was mysteriously vote.
Resides within us and stand outside of -- help but think guys get in shape so it's one paradox after and that there hadn't been.
That god is everywhere in -- -- what you you hit the book that science.
Helps point us to god how is that.
A lot of things and try to do in the book is simply say a vital -- one that can handle the modern world and really shape us.
And the better people will embrace all the truth is that science is picking up decisive ultimately about explorations about learning more.
About this world and in the Jewish tradition like the -- Some 44 the -- Is god and everything and that the misses -- world so any new news we have about this world should be celebrated by people of faith.
But there's no scientific proof that there's a god.
Yeah that's why we need public.
-- -- -- -- -- But you know I mean that's why we need a good song that's why we are.
One of the things I talk about is if you could.
Prove they got actually exists you probably wouldn't be talking about god.
Which is why it's called faith but what is important is that I don't believe -- -- disprove the existence of god I think we have lots of clues.
-- -- -- I don't even use the word evidence four.
What were you -- -- them the biggest piece of evidence that you could point to that says to know here's how I know.
There is a god.
What some -- the reverence -- -- within the sense that you eat.
A meal with friends and at the meal but it's more than a meal -- hear a song is more of -- song.
What my first kid was born and I stay in the hospital holding my first -- And -- this little bundle of -- and blood cells and -- and yet.
I feel like bands that may have spent a -- the parents of helpless you feel connected with largest possible universe you can imagine.
So I begin with the everyday experiences.
Of transcendence -- people say that the hole was so worried that we were taken higher.
But there must be going on -- -- -- begin at a very intuitive level.
With this sense that things are what they are.
And yet they point beyond themselves to something larger.
That's well said rob bell in the book is when what we talked about when we talk about god thank you very much faster do you want us.
Tonight we did a very much.
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