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Jack but the marriage for -- lot of religious people is an institution designed by god not by men.
So what role does and should faith play in the marriage debate.
During me now is Robert Taylor author of a new way to be human -- for -- pathways to becoming fully alive.
And -- koskie director -- -- for religious liberty at profoundly.
Research council welcomed -- mouth.
Good to be going great view -- if -- I'm gonna start with you only because I feel like you're further away as I wanna bring you into the this argument first.
You know like I said that religion it wouldn't -- a lot of people feel like.
Marriage is only designed by god and -- and invent it it should not be dictated by.
But the federal government says it but in this case.
It is being that it is being debated by -- Supreme Court justices.
How much of realism weigh in on this.
Well in terms what the Supreme Court will do it's not going to weigh in at all.
Nor is -- the federal government dictating marriage in neither case is the federal government determining who can and cannot get married.
The question in the dome -- case the second case.
It's just merely for purposes of federal benefits which are large -- economic entitlement like federal income tax breaks or Social Security purposes.
Just for purposes of federal programs where the constitution does allow congress to exercise power.
This is just a definitional provisions that defines a term in the federal code.
Just like there's federal definitions for the word property and all sorts of other things in federal law that are normally determined by the states down a man -- I have ever wanted to censor what he was yeah I.
You know I I think we're all waiting eagerly for responsive and the ruling -- -- Supreme Court on both of these cases I think.
Many of us bring our religious perspectives -- What -- are conditioned to have views on marriage and there is no uniformity of those religious perspectives there are many Christians who believe that same gender marriage.
Is in -- a civil rights issue and disconnected with.
Spiritual concerns around issues of love and justice and and that the spiritual -- of inclusion of all people and and so I I think that if if prop eight is overturned for instance and be right to marry is expanded to include same gender couples.
Religious organizations are going to continue to exercise the right that they've always had.
Which is to choose who it is that they wish to to marry.
Within their own religious yeah.
What do you really believe though of that religious -- -- same sex marriage becomes the law of the land you know in all the case it's a lecture at these two cases will actually do -- this sounds like the justices are going to have a narrow definition here.
Do you really believe that religious institutions.
Will be protected.
Legally if they choose not to.
Well I I have.
To believe that that's true it certainly the case now I mean.
No no church is -- Held all forced to or synagogue or or moss history is compelled to to marry anybody who walks through their doors.
Religious institutions have -- -- set -- -- -- because for them.
We've got this anomaly marriages that is a civil and legal contract in our society.
And then we've got to go delays and the -- -- of religion around it from a variety of traditions.
-- if you could answer Robert and a while -- yeah actually that's not true in 1983 and Bob Jones University vs United States.
Bob Jones did not allow black and white students to date each other in the Supreme Court allowed the hire us to strip them of their 501 C three status.
Say that national policy recognize that racial discrimination was unconstitutional.
And so Bob Jones -- private institution.
They were free to discriminate if they wanted but the Supreme Court said that the government can strip away all of their tax benefits and the charitable deduction that people give.
Giving to them all of those sorts of things the reasoning in Bob Jones in 1983 the reasoning of that case is completely applicable.
If the Supreme Court would declare that there is -- previously invisible right.
Too -- to gay marriage and polygamy on such a nature that the states can no longer vote on the issue and decide.
I do what I do -- only about the racial issues because there -- a lot of people who don't equate homosexuality with.
With a racial group because that's another for the got a but I would want to bring up the issue.
-- father in Massachusetts who said he did not want his his child being taught about same sex relationships in his and it and his Spanish school.
You've got the Methodist Church who was.
In a suit because they said they they would not allow a lesbian couple to get married.
Those the kinds of issues we're talking about here so and in -- -- Do you think that there really is going to be provision for people not just institutions but people were religious people who say.
I don't want to acknowledge.
The same six -- because it's against my faith in well look I don't -- go ahead run with Robert.
Lauren -- -- I would suggest -- that I've not heard anyone who is part of the freedom to marry movement.
Suggesting that there be any coercion and all any religious institution and I would be totally surprised.
To find people who actually take that position.
That really serves to undermine the religious liberty aspects and the free exercise of religion.
That are -- Part of the culture problem and I wanna get this because you've got the situation with -- Methodist Church in the camp -- you've got a situation where the couple the photographer -- so I didn't want to.
Photograph a listening and then a lesbian wedding and they been -- for -- I lost those suits that say we see the handwriting on the wall.
That perhaps they will not be protected because I have not been up.
I think we we're obviously gonna have to see how that plays out but I I doubt that if you're gonna see people pushing for that one I think that.
What what's at the heart of this debate for many people is that that if proposition eight is overturned in California.
The the right to enter into the civil contract of marriage is going to be expanded obviously -- And part of what happens with that is you actually start to I mean traditional heterosexual marriage at this point as we know.
He's -- disappear stress in this country where -- divorce rates hovering around 50%.
What you're in fact going to be do is I believe revitalizing the institution of marriage.
And really affirming some of it's very conservative values and principles.
OK can I just answer -- Robert on the well the reason actually comes back the reason I'm raising -- is because that is the strongest case for the other side their whole argument is built around.
Supreme Court case loving -- Virginia.
Where the court said that a law saying a black woman could not marry a white man was unconstitutional and they say because that is a fundamental right.
So where is the right to same sex marriage so they are the ones who have actually melded these two issues together at the Supreme Court.
And there were briefs filed at the court in this case raising exactly the issue that I just discuss funding this is on the front burner of this litigation.
And for people who think this isn't the kind of thing anyone needs to be concerned about look at the HHS mandate litigation whichever one thought was unthinkable.
Both for obamacare and of course I'm involved in that litigation is well that is that it -- dried up in the courts right now.
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