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Malcolm welcome John Stossel his new book is now out in paperback.
No they can't like government fails but it appears -- thank you for coming all the way up one floor debate here I really appreciate the effort you've -- to.
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This thing your message all along has that the government is really more in the way.
Then it is.
To our benefit but not all along I was once wholeheartedly on your side.
As a consumer reporter because -- did you consider yourself a liberal at one time absolutely I was trained in college that young liberal.
As we now know -- term was -- best and I Lou I was basic liberal for 1520 years what changed and went wind -- the turning point via.
Consumer reporting it because I'm a stutter I didn't shop around other beats like people did I stayed on the -- and so.
I -- went back to stories five years later after.
Politicians it's had great stories also we're gonna fix that we're gonna create department of consumer affairs were gonna license repair shops.
And I felt so proud I was so cool -- -- -- -- -- -- five years later when I didn't I would do the same scam test again bring in a TV.
With nothing wrong with that see how many people cheated -- and there was no different so I'd go to -- -- department of consumer Frist -- they don't.
He -- licensing filling out forms it didn't change anything.
But everything now cost more now immigrants may be had to go underground now he had to pay more for TV repair -- the guy had to hire a lawyer.
It didn't make it better.
Felt so we it was really -- the experience of thinking that the government was going to be okay do the right thing and they didn't.
And that's really can't see any again and then I discovered reason magazine -- learned that libertarian doesn't make sense to me.
Is the government ever right.
What can they do what I mean for example you talk about how environmental -- in the 1970 they did some stuff that I think you agree with right.
You bet they Clinton in the air and water were filthy and they ordered cities to do sewage treatment and ordered.
Electric companies to puts robbers and smokestacks.
So so that's good that's good that our markets not gonna solve that easily.
When when does it -- band went in it would break spent at some point right another I can't stop.
That's that's your message that it is a point.
They never do yeah.
And the photos had a pretty good basic government should keep a safe -- persons from foreign enemies and local police from domestic enemies.
-- -- pollution control and that's.
About it then that.
Leave us free to do anything -- peaceful -- orderly issues in the big news has been gay marriage for example and I understand the libertarian position which I actually agree with.
And I'm with you on drugs get government out of it should be illegal prostitution -- government should be out of it and I -- myself sometimes a liberal Terry and but for example on the issue of marriage I agree get the government out of straight marriage get him out of -- marriage entirely but since that's not likely to happen anytime soon the -- even up the score really.
Is to have government.
You know make it legal for gays do it straight -- -- right I -- You know -- -- so then the argument goes.
Well and I was second edition of Paula talk about this is -- what -- six people wanna get married he said it will I don't find me -- -- put it.
The media they call it plural marriage I know you -- polygamy whatever they wanna -- -- right.
And then I mean I did a story with a guy and it and his six wives they called each of assists.
The coach of the sister wives and I think they like each other -- from the electric guy.
And I did it seem like luckily it they were all consenting adults they had chosen this -- not.
And I got a letter from a guy in Missouri with a picture of him what he said was him and his course -- And we're back then -- well -- it -- an animal can't consent so I thought the same thing a child can't consent.
So this doesn't mean Linda sanction that if Helio beastie -- know and some of the people making the argument against gay marriage is -- and -- -- animals but that's.
Not the same but these are good discussions -- half for about marrying your sister.
-- -- -- That's sort of lighter weight they have this latest the government -- me out and -- see that they had -- but should the government be able to say you can't do that.
I'm probably not and EU -- people should you able to be able to bury your cousin and they signal for the same reason but in most states you can't legally marry your cause I thought -- -- -- the first president beyond that -- -- that not consider an -- but it's still.
It does creep me out to -- like Bavarian sister -- you know -- but if they're consenting adults are I would say if you ought to be able to.
Right so then if you have a child together.
Do we have to go there but I guess I -- what they -- it's only for the sake of discussion which is and where do you draw the line and I don't want I'm not comfortable with that stuff but.
For the puck -- policy.
Does the government should they get waiter they step in and said it was thought they -- -- -- -- incest gadget that.
And a libertarian position of adults should be allowed to do anything it's peaceful.
Would allow for her siblings to -- that we had Jim Wallace on the show last night of sojourner and if you know him or not but I -- big left wing evangelical and he says.
Well he doesn't call himself left wing but he recently is an LSU left wingers do I don't I'm proud to be left wing liberal calling -- -- -- -- and considerate and and so could.
Really a left wing nut job anything you like a left wing loon is orally -- atomic but the habit so.
The thing is to do government should do for the common good you take care of the least among us as Jesus said these -- and evangelical standpoint.
Is there anything wrong then went taking care of these though the -- those who needed those needing government net those who.
Or -- those who really can't make it on their own the least among us for the good of society for the good of those who can't for themselves.
I think -- like I say yes only because government -- -- Now let's be realistic we have a giant welfare state and it's not going away and it's certainly appropriate in this rich country to have a safety net from government.
Yeah the government is so lousy -- it hurts people it's perpetuated poverty it's one example during the depression when America was so much poorer than it is now.
And unemployment was 25%.
How many people stark.
Because at the time they were these mutual aid societies are racists is they were they were blacks helping blacks.
-- -- helping Greeks but neighbors helped each other.
The government drove that out they said we're gonna take care of this now so now people -- for me usually -- -- really -- really depend on neighbor taking care of neighbor and personal charity.
In every case it you really think -- the government got out of the welfare business.
We want everybody would be fine because some everybody would find some and take care.
I would say we are so much richer now.
That yes we would do much better job but we're kind of in its not coming to that how would just a limited welfare state.
-- to rescue people who maybe slipped through those credit chains like Jennifer hopeful that those little change to begin we had welfare reform and -- morning and said he'll -- starvation in the streets and a million women got off and went home live with mom got jobs made better lives so it can happen -- -- the government.
So you would have no government assistance no good no -- no government program to help.
The -- in the perfect libertarian world.
5% in the money charities would have would.
Be fast why do you think it is that libertarian candidates from Harry Browne of food now.
And left the planet than other people on the libertarian who who are very consistent one thing I get to libertarians unlike Democrats and conserve and and Republicans are liberals -- conservatives you can pretty much know we're libertarians gonna stand is a very consistent philosophy.
Why can't they get elected.
It's -- wrote no they can't because it was based on Obama's yes we can and that's just appealing to people.
We've got to help people in government is the mechanism for that you really have to study to see their that there are alternatives to that -- you -- that people voted for Obama because they got free stuff you really think that's that's -- the conservative I think he's just.
Was more likable them from.
Well that's not hard to be.
That he's a win is a libertarian go -- an election yeah I mean Romney certainly that was a libertarian.
We get do you vote libertarian line I throw my vote away every year -- It even if he is that how you describe it that -- EU and not until after the election I am I go in always hoping this year Gary Johnson -- gonna surprise everybody I thought I'd like -- very very much and he actually can but he makes a very good argument as you do for libertarian isn't for -- week.
But he talks about getting the government added.
The drug wars in -- and making drugs legal as a former governor he talked about it because benefit analysis you think that would appeal to conservatives.
That that it does it cost more money to do what we're doing now than.
To actually pay for treatment or help people get off drugs and that make it legal and tax and bring money into the government.
It's a lousy argument I would think the better argument is what's your adult -- you own your own body but either way it's.
Insisted -- is so low he and he.
You know you don't think he's an effective spokesperson for the cause I -- -- my show sometimes and he just just doesn't wind people up the way Ron Paul -- -- -- -- but he hung in the seventies that Ron -- locate his.
While he never he is more passion in his speech.
And we have -- how -- -- do in terms of getting out the messes you think he's pretty good I think he's a less hardcore libertarian or maybe he's.
Just being a Smart politician casinos these ideas threaten people but.
He's quite good -- -- just doesn't literacy is written no they can't like government fails but individuals succeed.
We're at 8774.
If you want to give an honest.
You -- New York is certainly give your enemies away.
They're not supposed to but.
I think gimmick.
So you got what -- you had -- of 19 -- I won Emmys when I was bashing businesses a liberal consumer reporter my immediate colleagues -- tallest guy bash is this has given many give him -- -- I said hey.
Business by and large serves people well and big governments a bigger problem I stopped winning Emmys since then -- Had a contest who could what think tank could produce the best budget in the opinion of my studio audience.
And the winner I gave an Emmy jail.
Andy Kennedy candidacy human.
It is not your property -- -- not get emotional way I -- and appear property we're gonna do they get a legally stop you from doing them I'm we have a government regulations are limited test my athletic keep -- animal hey did you also have a if you work you gave one to as well.
Today yes yeah I think I think some guy wrote in camera.
I forget what hate it I said he should win an Emmy gave in my in the book I say if you can think of some thing I'll give you wanna Miami's and he did and I'm.
This guy -- -- mark.
-- -- -- They're ready to make enough -- grammys -- afraid of coming -- for let me introduce myself 25 -- -- city's education graduate the libertarian just finished reading your book.
And he goes on and on here's my offer 124 by 36 -- Ron Paul poster.
What -- or bookmark Ron Paul -- when University of Akron zippy Bobble head and you're an American tonight no need for bubble had.
Or Ron Paul memorabilia but also -- and -- anyway -- become a good teachers.
That -- but they that the academy doesn't want you to do that.
I have apparently not but that's not what I had to do with these things you -- it's an honor -- if you don't consider an honor to have nineteen Emmys and an Emmy people can say that.
I did consider it an honor I no longer do.
We were just talking about head off the air and after this on the air many times that there -- so many people who are socially liberal fiscally conservative.
And they don't feel they got a political party because the Republicans are socially conservative and it.
Liberals are socially -- economically liberal.
And there are a lot of people who have opposite views and each of those issues.
Why have -- why can't the libertarians grab all those people if you did a survey.
And -- -- economically conservative social liberal I think you would find a much higher score than the number of people identified as being libertarian.
I don't know we can't I'm not and I take surveys show most people say they are socially liberal economically conservative right but you ask him -- you libertarian.
10% after last yet that maybe it's reaper maybe they need to be rebrand it maybe the party needs it I think libertarians a great -- -- I call it nothing else I don't know you stole a good -- liberal on what I.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Isn't it when when you had people like Bob Dole.
When he was running for president liberal liberal liberal making in a bad word and ever since then the conservatives took the words liberal and redefined it and made it into a bad word -- -- a very good job.
Re engineering that word but you say it's liberals fault that we had it still would be better than libertarian.
I go back before Bob Dole who was a tax collector for the what happens there.
Because -- it liberally used to mean.
Leave people all to do what they want pretty much him and if it's come to mean.
Re distribute income speech police.
Engineer society so what if I just live with the environment when they had certain.
Ideas that came forward and certain regulations about water and air and keeping it safe.
And then if they had stopped right there you would -- -- what -- we where if we had stuffed with food stamps and assistance.
1520 years ago and didn't expand those programs would you what would -- still be fine with the for you said I think you're ready to better yeah I'm talking theoretical in the -- in the pure world there wouldn't be there but look at look at welfare and what he did right.
His first five years lots of people thanks to welfare were lifted out of poverty.
Yeah but then progress stopped it's gone up and down ever since we taught people to be dependent and then look at the graph of the five years before welfare.
People were already lifting themselves out of poverty.
Government just continued progress for five years and and stopped it.
In your book know they can't.
You say that gun control actually increases -- They're -- studies that show exactly the opposite that in red states went back where they have the strictest -- potential was there is less prone.
In red states were they -- -- -- Summit statement where they federal law doesn't control law there is less -- there's less well he -- and -- the numbers.
I'm surprised that this is a quote from my book but less -- right John Lott argued -- in his book and I tried to approve it there was actually less crime.
When people were packing heat -- I couldn't find -- but.
There's certainly isn't more crime and the CDC looked at 51 studies and believe me they were a -- for improvement from gun control and they couldn't find anything.
And a lot of places with strict laws like Chicago have more credit to you with the NRA in this like people like we -- and more guns put guns in schools have you have people armed in schools have teachers aren't in schools.
Well you can let's talk about those -- -- and have the point of liberty is that if a teacher wants to pack heat.
And the school says it's a good idea lift the home.
But you know what the government is for us this put him hey.
To believe a lot of the schools are run by the gap with enough public schools so they are government Rangel it's local government -- ideal world they would know -- run by the government -- they've all right -- -- -- -- the local school district decide what works for their particular municipality.
I live in Manhattan -- spends laboring to and I've been an -- for gun control and frightened of guns most of my life.
But I look I looked at the research and he interviewed people in prisons in and who we were scared of -- cops hunt more scared of a victim packing heat.
Well you know and and you know you've got people who say the -- the more crime and more much the crime that happens happens among people who know each other every day a gun goes off and home.
A father mistakenly -- a five year old with a -- shoots a five year old with a gun.
Or some enraged husband shoots a wife and then kills himself every day and putting on my blog.
Stories about these.
People who are shooting each other because they have guns -- horrible and -- should also happens in Chicago and Manhattan where you got tough gun control should the government be able to loaf.
Find out I have a registry find out who's crazy who's -- have mental health history whose violent who should not be able to have access to this.
It's a good to know they can't example that that -- sounds reasonable.
Except when the government has a registry.
They get the names wrong they smear innocent people they use it for other stuff they may use it to go confiscate guns like Hitler did.
Well people is bring up Hitler but you know.
But that doesn't.
Immediately confiscated guns the flip side of the company -- relegated to -- but also Britain Japan Japan has very few guns and that there's very little crime never those are dictatorships.
So that's true but -- -- Japanese fair.
Different it's a different cultures -- Austria.
The book is now in paperback and he was just this week just a your Canada -- -- Now whole Monica took me eight years to do this for look at don't know they can't -- government fails but individuals.
Jon social thank you very much -- being thank you Allan.
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