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Whenever it's hot stories today that top US military commander in the Pacific.
Said that North Korea's pursuit of nuclear weapons while they're -- have nuclear weapons.
But -- pursuit of what they're doing right now.
Is a clear and direct threat to the United States and our allies in the region that region a hotbed of emerging and established nuclear -- along with others eager to really enjoying.
The nuclear club.
North Korea has been right there providing critical held for.
Others and their nuclear programs causing some mischief in the Middle East we've talked a little bit about this before.
Sharing nuclear plans with Syria a proxy of Iran.
I'm reportedly allowing -- writing experts to observe their nuclear test in North Korea just a few weeks ago.
This developing story North Korea is not just about one country.
But about the region as a whole and our approach to it and taking one step further one can also argue is not just about the region.
But the precedent it sets globally.
Joining us now mark do what's executive director of the foundation for defense of democracies.
And Gordon Chang author -- nuclear showdown North Korea takes on the world an appropriate title -- and we'll start with -- Why is this story.
In North Korea and of recent weeks so significant for the region as a whole.
It's not just North Korea this is also Iran because Iran and North Korea have had joint missile and nuclear weapons development program.
And behind all of them is China.
It just a few hours ago People's Daily the Communist party's flagship publication.
Issued a commentary severely attacking the United States you know Chinese -- -- playing on Sunday made these comments that no one should be allowed to roiled the region and even the world for selfish -- and everybody interpret that to be an attack on North Korea.
Well People's Daily just a few hours ago made it clear that -- -- king was directing his remarks against the United States.
Not against North Korea so this is not just one country not just two countries this is three countries China Iran.
And North Korea.
Mark what do you make of it there this significance of the story and North Korea.
Not only what it means for the region but for other places like Iran.
Well -- I think that north Cara is -- today about what happens when -- rogue regime.
By the way with a bankrupt economy and a bankrupt ideology gains nuclear weapons advanced ballistic missile technology.
And threatens the United States threatens the world.
If you don't like North Korea you're gonna hit a -- because Iran is an energy superpower.
With an ideology that appeals to tens of millions of the world's faithful.
And they are at an aggressive.
Power they want to seek regional and global hegemony.
And so -- -- rotten that is dashing to a undetectable nuclear breakout in fifteen months.
Suggest that we're going to be facing an even more profound national security challenge in the coming year.
So if what we're witnessing right now Marcus and -- a case study for what we might see four -- -- What -- we do about it.
Well we we have to stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons there's no doubt about it and in -- again in fifteen months we'll have undetectable break out.
We tried sanctions put put punishing economic pressure on this regime.
It hasn't cracked the nuclear well about -- common -- we've tried diplomacy with that five rounds of diplomatic negotiations that have gotten nowhere.
And this Iran and regime seems -- interest -- -- diplomatic deal and is learning from its North Korean partner as Gordon said.
That you could actually develop nuclear weapons you can do so in an undetectable way you can violate your obligations under the MPT.
Annual pay no price for for -- and you'll get support from Beijing.
As your closest -- But in Gordon we've tried with all that mark has -- -- with North Korea we tried paying North Korea.
We've now -- said we're not gonna do -- missile test because we don't want to provoke North Korea.
In many ways some could describe it as a policy of containment is keeping North Korea at bay so that they don't bother us.
What how do we change that how -- -- change this cycle of seeing North Korea act out engage other and he's.
And it really disrupt the region.
Why did -- are two things first of all South Korea can close that case I'm industrial complex which is provided a lifeline of economic support to North Korea.
But more important we need to talk to the Chinese.
We need to use our economic leverage and basically -- to the Chinese you can be friends with North Korea you can be friends with the United States but not both at the same time.
A fragile Chinese economy is now more reliant on the United States that gives us but -- -- leverage that we should be using because we don't use that we know what's gonna happen.
North Korea is gonna end up with a fearsome -- killer arsenal they're gonna have long range ballistic missiles and every spring there's going to be a Cuban missile crisis.
Mark isn't China causing mischief in Iran right now to with the sanctions -- China and it sounds like is a prom with North Korea -- You you know what's going on in Iran what is China doing with Iran right now.
Well China has been a country that has provided -- Iran and with parts and components for its nuclear program for its ballistic missile program state owned Chinese companies for years -- assisting Iran -- Now Chinese -- many of them with links to the Chinese Government.
Are facilitating that proliferation related charity.
The Chinese have resisted punishing economic sanctions that the UN Security Council.
They've really tried to protect there are -- an ally.
On whom they depend for -- fairly large percentage of their oil imports.
So I think again China is a problem in North Korea China is a problem in Iran the message to Beijing has got to be.
You are helping other countries go nuclear could -- South Korea and Japan are gonna go nuclear unless you solve the North Korean problem.
And Saudi Arabia and Turkey and other Middle Eastern countries are gonna go nuclear -- you solve the Iran -- problem.
-- have a -- nukes every one of these countries on -- hair trigger and the potential for for nuclear.
Holocaust -- quick final question for you guys and take a quick commercial break one of the -- two final questions one of them is if you -- the China problem.
Does North Korea and Iran as -- go away the second one is there is a question from the Wall Street Journal about whether or not in our history right now we are witness saying.
The greatest liberation.
The atomic age that that we will ever experience in the lifetime some serious questions we'll be right back after commercial break with more.
Back with his Gordon -- -- -- was talking a little bit about North Korea and Iran gentlemen I'd like to restart with this quote from the Wall Street Journal today.
A big editorial about what's happening in the world overall and this is -- the Wall Street Journal says.
The world can see the United States has actually -- actually asked.
In North Korea's weapons program and lacks the will to stop -- -- can see the US is shrinking its own nuclear capacity through arms control.
Even as a -- threat -- above all the world can here -- store mr.
Obama declare for domestic American audiences.
That the tide a war is receding despite the growing evidence the contrary.
I'm present trend a president who promised to rid the world of nuclear weapons and setting the stage for their greatest proliferation.
Since the dawn of the atomic age.
Now our Ryan North Korea had been a bipartisan problem for many administrations whether you're Republican or Democrat the question is.
Had and we stopped proliferation from happening Gordon here Scott's first and then mark we'll get yours.
I think the one thing that we've really got to do is to separate -- and from Pyongyang's.
Because China supplies them with 90% of their oil 80% of the consumer goods 45% of the food most of that on concessionary terms.
Beijing is the only supporter of North Korea now in international councils like the Security Council.
And so I think that clearly we got to get rid of China.
To do that though we've got to have different policies because the policies that we've employed since the beginning of the Bush Administration just clearly have not worked.
We have tried to put China at the center of the global efforts to get North Korea.
Two -- disarm and so clearly North Korea has not only during that time is not only gotten long range ballistic missile but nuclear weapons as well.
We have to use our economic leverage and we have plenty of it the people Washington -- don't wanna use it and we don't use it it's it's just going to be disaster for every one.
Lacking on the North Korean side I mean I think the Chinese obviously been very close allies with North Korea for years I think what they -- are really concerned about the potential for nuclear armed South Korea at a nuclear armed Japan.
I'm not suggesting that we encourage collaboration in Asia.
But I think the Japanese in the South Koreans made.
Make their own calculation that a nuclear armed North Korea is becoming so dangerous.
They can't rely on an American nuclear umbrella and they may break out to nuclear weapons.
-- on the Middle Eastern side with respect to Iran but there's only one answer there the answer is to stop Iran from achieving undetectable breakout capability.
And stop Iran from developing an undetectable nuclear weapon.
We've tried sanctions -- -- diplomacy we not they got a massively intensify the pressure on this regime.
But within about six to eight months that time is beginning to run out as we approach undetectable break out this president needs to send a message that he will.
Use military force to blow up Iran's nuclear weapons capability and -- it needs to make that message clear an -- they -- -- Mark or intently a lot to talk about great to have but the your thoughts today thank you so much I Stratocaster you.
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