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-- about Chris Brown Winona Ryder Greg Anderson with Barry Bonds you talk about Scott Peterson.
It's Michael Jackson Mark Geragos is permanent but been involved in all that.
That's why this book is so valuable and so entertaining and informative because I'm not a I don't have a legal background.
Mark Geragos and pat Harris wrote the book mistrial is I look at other criminal justice system works and sometimes doesn't.
You -- you came into EU address -- the most common question you always hear.
Lawyers say in other people saying.
Our system's not perfect but it's the best system in the world -- I could you address that in the book let's -- -- I'll let us.
-- when that -- We sort of concluded I think we both agree that it is the best system the world with -- provision and that is it's falling apart.
It is clearly 200 and something years all we now have things that the founding fathers couldn't possibly have for seen Google for example.
I don't know how many cases of a look at the front cover of these New York Post today -- -- -- front cover of the New York Post there is a guy freed after 38 years now.
And then who the judge found basically and ordered him out immediately because of DNA.
And if you read into the story they say it was ineffective assistance by his lawyer his lawyer thought he was guilty as the lawyer just -- -- through the ripped through the motions.
Right yeah it says yeah wrong man's 38 year jail nightmare right as you really have this football players going back after he was wrongly accused -- right now it.
I mean this guy was incredibly says -- it's too bad his mom and dad.
-- here to see it because they didn't believe he was not let alone is there's been a legal system there's been people who wrongly -- wrongly convicted.
Correct I mean that diagnosis and we know that's -- perfect.
But in terms of the way it lays out sometimes you get the wrong guy that has DNA helped you guys all DNA has -- rebel national right he's been revolutionary in the sense that.
We now realize.
That all of this idea about eyewitness identification because in virtually all of these DNA exoneration cases through the one comes -- because it was an eyewitness who was absolutely 100% positive.
And then we get the DNA -- and it was the -- -- so why isn't our system and proved why with this technology why can't we use the Google's and the DNA.
And what are we have a better system.
Well because people at this point.
Lot of its funding but at this point people really don't want to and the interesting thing is.
You know the the whole concept we talked about the tough on crime -- occurred and how it's become sort of a very conservative movement.
It's now actually the conservatives.
Who -- making the movement to reform the system.
In favor of the defendants there's a coalition it's fascinating here's a coalition event -- evangelical preachers.
And libertarians who have come together they've signed a document it's Newt Gingrich Jeb Bush the number of these saying we need to reform the system.
Because it's not working.
And they're the ones and in this is where it's gonna have to come reforms gonna have to come from the right it's not gonna come from the left.
And they're the ones who are pushing now for exactly the kind of things like DNA testing.
Right so we have to find a way to gutter system to every corner here about his back -- correct correct and I will tell you so but what ends up happening is.
People are afraid -- of the first of all.
We've gone so overboard in this war on drugs I mean you sit in a courtroom any -- Quincy California California it's ridiculous -- -- even -- 80% of the cases that go through the system our drug related one way or another.
And what we end up doing is warehousing and you know we've practically on the brink of bankruptcy in California.
Because of the prison system we just warehouse all these people and we warehouse I think in my opinion probably 50% of the people in there we don't need to be they should be little row.
-- yell you right now because he wrote a column today about how drugs aren't they are not a victimless crime.
Well I I agree with that I don't think they've -- the little I would be.
Dispute that I don't think it's a victimless crime but I think our approach to it.
Has to be changed because it certainly is not work and I so we we talked about that system you also just -- touch and as -- competent judges.
How should judges be -- should they be appointed or elected.
Well we've sort of for a long time felt that they should be appointed because judges -- up for election we have what we refer to.
Is the LA times front page test which simply is this.
A judge who is up for election.
Do one thing they can't do is be on the front page LA times otherwise they'll get reelect.
But of their name appears on the front page really times that they granted bond -- somebody or they release somebody or they overturned a case.
That person goes out rapes or murders something they're gonna lose their gonna lose reelection.
I would think you called -- Derek -- in Massachusetts.
I don't we did okay well -- -- well hold on to that I got to we when we left off.
We were talking about Michael Jackson how he was only the elusive but the pressure was incredible was involved -- that we talked about Scott Peterson.
Now -- like to delve into.
Somebody else and that is Chris Brown you quoted as saying he's like a son -- who -- Chris Brown you know because we know.
It was that he battered Rihanna.
Any pay the price for that with probation.
Right and I will tell you that when I first met him and -- -- this he wanted to make amends immediately he did not want to.
Fight the case he wanted to plead and I told him hang on you're gonna do when I tell you do woman finds room to get -- spot.
Where I think you can work through this get a program and everything else he did he worked really hard on that.
I went through the program in the interesting thing that was you know I mean I didn't -- from Adam when I first got the call for the -- through here in new -- -- called me.
Told me about the case that I answered dispute them boarding of the -- said.
I've got this client -- the LAP he's looking for him whose name's Chris Brown in the -- and the victim is Rihanna.
And I said final meet him in 45 minutes and hang up -- might then seventeen year old daughter's room.
Wake -- up and -- who's Chris -- what's the Rihanna and she just kind of looked to me like that you're such a loser right and I came to really like this guy a lot and noble and I'd like to say consider like a sort of he's worked through he's done all the work -- needed to do.
In terms of getting past that he's got a tremendously supportive mother Joyce Hawkins who -- -- He's got a great support system around and Kenny who's who's learned that tonight he did it no not at all as it was never there was never a question -- he embraced -- he dealt with that.
And I talked with -- just two months ago she was in the office for most of the day.
And we had a very different mobile worker and their guy yourself to death with a -- where you don't need a little paralegal -- -- other news today I decided fried -- I think we'll talk and sit down to -- And I'm starting -- touch diamond is -- -- -- -- if they hadn't she she was very frank about it she wouldn't be with him if she didn't think the same thing and killed that she is one incredibly strong and and she's not really I only know person but I will say this at least to two separate bar fights he's had you know you know about what you but do you look -- -- -- -- -- that want to -- -- -- WIP.
That was not him in the police investigated the heck out of that NYPD did.
He didn't start that he wasn't the one is borrowing are almost is blind and we have Tony Parker doesn't blame him so him I'll -- -- everybody was -- it was -- Chris -- The other -- same thing police investigated the heck out of that.
He was found to not be culpable they're also so you know I understand that it makes -- great news.
And you know but he's under -- express instructions for me.
You get you see the first sign of trouble you turn around and you run we have always interest and went wants starter after benighted singed him because we're obviously -- -- -- Talk to people that he actually is done community service with the firefighters the police officers Richmond.
They love him they talk about this -- and I really show up for a lot that's not where oil was absolutely not three -- Thrown out something so we have the 800 detainees can make things up well the GA thirty actually pretty much exactly and we and they about the Richmond police department shows all the documents in the hands of the DA apparently decided they look like -- regular thing okay.
So here's a scenario -- and -- it was famous -- -- defend somebody they pay the price that you get them off.
And you get him off on murder and two weeks later they go back and they kill somebody and he has no doubt about it he said he he's in there with -- -- as I did.
How do you guys live with yourselves in that in that scenario.
If you get somebody off and they turn out to be.
-- I don't know we've ever had a case like that but I do you know you realize it -- every time that's true -- and I know we've had cases we've certainly gotten people off forgotten good deals in the -- turned around and they've committed a crime again or done something again.
And what you realize is is look.
In fact mark said it best when he when we talked about the Scott Peterson case I didn't -- -- take it.
And he looked at me he shamed me into it because he said you know we decided to be defense attorneys this is what we do.
This is exactly.
What we took -- -- what we agreed to.
You know we're not here to judge people -- -- here to defend them and more than anything were defending the system.
We're not defending -- just I'll throw you back to the New York Post cover.
38 years ago some lawyer I don't know who it was but according to that article some lawyers thought the guy was guilty and he just folded in.
And the -- sat in jail for 38 years because his mom is -- his lawyer didn't think he was not guilty.
You're very good this -- -- it's.
This copy go back to sports editor of the news here's Derek in Massachusetts is -- Fox News radio -- Derek you got a question about.
Plea -- you think it should be outlawed.
Are you aspect has what what what prosecutors do what they don't want court is state.
To take an innocent person now we have an innocent person walked into court person didn't elect some other work.
I don't get wrapped up on the situation and what happens -- -- they load up job just on this person.
Doled out 56 judge makes the -- -- say that you're gonna go to prison for five years if you fight this spot.
If you cannot -- deeply guilty and the you -- you -- it all these things you don't want to judge it would do Obama and we're gonna -- do all six months of violence happening here.
So the all -- out of the system actually courses innocent people are so as an adult does -- -- -- innocent people object der to plead guilty.
If you watching now live and by the way to play these clips back you've got -- great TVC.
You know conceded but -- doable nodding market -- ball body along with you I absolutely -- we talk about in the book Derek we talk about the fact that 2030 years ago UNC prosecutors -- be much more willing just.
You sit -- -- -- -- have a drinker or go out to lunch with amendment talk about the case and and they would drop if the case you know the evidence when they're -- drop it.
These days it doesn't happen -- exactly right what they do is they -- conviction of some cap so they load up charges.
End up you know well if you just plea to one count will give you you know probation -- whatever.
And they refused even if its case that.
Absolutely should be dropped they don't know all even emphasize that Ericsson -- spot on when it comes in the federal system the federal system.
The federal prosecutor.
Can determined by what he charges you -- -- what he he can.
Basically kind of -- the judge for what the judge -- -- so if he was to throw on money laundering for some.
Thing boom you've got thirty to 37 months nothing you can do about it.
-- last question does this star power in the power of your firm.
Did you -- -- we gave this to you.
Has that helped with judges has that -- let -- clients want you because you have a good history that help with judges and juries I don't think it hurts and all women I think -- -- -- just absolutely vital to drive doesn't it doesn't hurt.
And down to some degree.
You know there it it helps weed out those who are pre disposed to do -- like criminal defense lawyers.
We'll have an intense hatred for -- to begin with so all now know who they -- -- raise their hand and I don't have to exercise of peremptory -- -- -- any good -- is no matter how -- -- -- -- always be second or -- there have been telling -- and on the part of a good spread of both -- go get this book they don't need the money -- they want you to read -- from this -- -- inside look at how the criminal justice system works is sometimes doesn't.
I -- equality 45 minutes thanks so much guys thanks and I had a single back and changed as you've already done that labor party dress that.
Think I'm a hacker got done I had no idea he had cameras and otherwise I've -- and I doubt -- he'll give credit.
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