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We have breaking news on the big story in New York yesterday where it law abiding gun owner air New York was targeted.
Under a controversial new law passed in the wake of new town and forced to turn over his seven firearms.
Because of -- suppose -- mental illness.
Now he hired an attorney he turned over the guns but he hired an attorney saying what is going on here ultimately.
The police admitted they had the wrong man.
To date we have that man's lawyer as well as the county clerk.
It was getting some of the blame he says wrongly.
-- left -- Chris Jacobs he's the Erie county clerk.
On the right is Jim trust -- -- attorney specializing in gun laws in New York thank you but there's a slight delay even though you're only coming to me from buffalo so.
Hope the viewers will bear with -- Jim let me start with you your client whose identity has been made public now David Lewis.
Turned over the guns that he had saying -- right like OK I guess so but then said -- you open what the heck is going on here and how long did it take for the police to admit to you.
It's we have the wrong -- How small my mega thanks for having me on and David.
Was informed on the second -- the third.
That he was sued tickets guns that the local police and and give them up.
Which he complied with done the -- April 5.
And then subsequently.
In the state police about three days later.
Admitted that they had made -- mistake.
Now that the -- just our viewers know here's the way it works now -- it was always the case that your psychiatrist or psychologist.
Would have to report to authorities that they thought he would become a threat to yourself or others.
But this new law passed in the week of new town now adds another layer and says.
Then the people the county basically to whom they report that information.
Have to call the state police.
And at -- figure out what -- -- a -- license.
And then the state police have to call the county clerk and say mr.
county clerk of gold get said persons guns -- I wanna go.
To Chris on this because you are the county clerk and -- you receive such a phone call from the state of the state police about David Lewis you did what you were told to do.
And then the state police call you back and what they say.
Well actually what they sent to us originally it was not it was in just a call was a letter.
Within name the individual question their date of birth I mean they're address and in the year that number -- pistol permit -- -- copy.
-- there -- the states copy of the individuals pistol permit.
-- the -- -- all this information.
Our role is really an administrative role what we do is confirm that this individual had an active pistol permit.
And then conveyed that to by the supreme court judge -- your best supreme court judge that oversees the licensing function of this.
And he acted on that -- it suspension pending a hearing that but -- it was a few by about a week later that we got a call.
From the state police saying they had the wrong person.
And I know you you say look this is an infringement of people's rights they passed this -- without having hearings that talked in of people.
About how would actually be implemented you think they need to go back to square one tell us why.
Why this -- in this instance I really think the state police -- a huge error but I think more broadly and now we're getting a finger pointing but I think more broadly.
We have -- concerned at all the county clerks around New York State most of whom minister pistol determining.
Have been very concerned about this law how how quickly it was passed that those who.
Have to implement -- -- various levels of expressed concern.
That they had not been brought in on the process and how something like this would be implemented is not just county clerks.
It sheriff's it's if folks in the mental health field that are very concerned -- I've veterans administration has said they will not be involved in the reporting because they are concerned about.
The way this is written that it may be a deterrent for people coming in to come in for treatment so.
-- was written in in a couple days have passed and a couple days in the middle of the night and people deny it have the opportunity being engaged in I think.
If they really want to do a thoughtful piece legislation on the mental health element -- to go back to the drawing board.
That's -- thing Jim because I gather that your client had some brief history but with that with the mental health professional so when.
They said we're taking your guns he he was a little confused but yes -- initially that this must be pursuant to the new law mean how did he get to the bottom of wait a minute it wasn't based on that and this is totally unfair and not the right person.
We we determined that that it couldn't be my client right after we interviewed him.
And we we asked him for his history.
And then after going over its history and his -- life in western new York and investigation is his background we determined that it had to be gross error on the part of the New York State Police.
We we feel that the Erie county clerk has no.
Liability this matter.
The state police should have been done that -- -- have conducted an investigation.
They did not.
The Erie county clerk has no investigatory.
Has no ability to investigate.
Anybody or anything silly Erie County -- is as safe harmless in this particularly.
And now that the man sitting home you're not -- religious police have been to tell the viewers because the reason has become an issue because now the state to state police.
About peer to be blaming our guest Chris Jacobs is that the county clerk they came out a statement very long but there's -- sum and substance of it.
They say -- the notification forwarded to it Erie county clerk.
Required additional follow up before we can make a positive -- of the person you know whose guns they're gonna take and they went on to say the state police.
Was it very clear in its letter to the clerk's office regarding the need for due diligence and the need for a positive identification by the county before they removed any weapon.
That final determination on whether to revoke or suspend a pistol permit license rests solely with the county.
And the licensing officials the state police has no authority to suspend -- -- revoke his apartment.
In these circumstances.
But we have a situation here now Chris where.
No they what they don't take responsibility.
You say look I'm I'm the execution right out and unfortunately for me and a lot got to do with -- help me to do.
So who -- pull -- came up with the wrong any.
Well that's exactly we actually did positively identify the individual that was given to us from state police that we identify this individual that resident of Erie county and had a pistol permit that's what we did that's the extent of what we do that's frankly the extent of the information we have.
As was mentioned we don't have an investor -- that investigatory role beyond that.
We actually went by -- -- don't even have that its local law enforcement and the state that does that so.
And if you read the law -- the letter that the state the sent to us with all these qualifiers that they're -- you -- that we have to look into more due diligence.
He's really inconsistent with the laws are written.
I it is state police it is the division of civil rights it -- division civil rights.
It's the civil justice department -- absurd department of criminal justice that's charged with -- both of the state level.
So that and in addition if you look on the website for the -- -- which is done by the governor it states clearly.
That that that division of criminal justice is charged with doing the due diligence yeah so all these things on top of the fact that the -- always said that the passage of this new law would not be a burden on local government and if we had to ramp opened new investigate Torre wing.
That certainly has the knack for another would not respect other members of the art that was that -- people are worried about their rights they're worried about the government showing up.
And taking their guns in a lot by its citizens which we were assured by everybody was not gonna happen.
But -- it happened in your client's case and he thankfully.
Went the extra measure hired an attorney -- -- people don't have -- don't do that and what protections are in place now for those people who just think.
And this is wrong but I can't hire Jim -- meant.
That's that's true -- million the problem is we have.
That should be enforced by every level of government.
That's our Fourth Amendment our Fifth Amendment -- tenth amendment.
Our fourteenth amendment all of our rights should be enforced by all of our officials all of our governmental officials and governor.
The state police and although local.
And police departments this what didn't happen in this case and I suspect it's not going to happen again in the near future.
Due process rights have gone by the boards everybody in our country is entitled to due process.
That is hearing before any charges are made against you.
In this case the charges come first and then to do prostate process takes place that's backwards.
You should be the other way around.
And I know that you are now pursuing a lawsuit to try to rectify this situation and end.
Others including you Chris have said the governor needs to go back to the drawing board on this we shall see what happens gentlemen thank you both so much for being here.
While we're taking your thoughts about that.
On Twitter at Megyn Kelly.
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