This transcript is automatically generated
Welcome to Defcon -- -- K -- background.
We're -- to -- today about that phenomenon of terrorism and homegrown terrorists terrorism in the United States and is this something new with that in new chapter.
Joining me is -- is David -- garden scene Ross who is with the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies he's I think probably one of the greatest experts.
The notion of -- -- homegrown terrorism who are these people and the -- somebody who's been watching this from the very beginning when everybody else is asleep.
To -- thank you so much for joining us.
Think you -- it's great to Jillian thinks for the very excited to judge -- has to be true.
-- you can't we've we've seen terrorism before -- basically September 11 we've seen.
Mass murderers we've around the world -- -- -- in America what's different about.
Well it's the first value of active public terrorism since the September 11 attacks occurred in the United States.
I should say that that and when you look at jihadist terrorism -- terrorism that's inspired by a particular interpretation of Islam.
There's been two other successful.
Attacks both of them not aimed at general members of the public but there was of course the Fort Hood attack that occurred.
In which Nadal -- can got a number of fellow servicemen.
That there's another attack at Little Rock, Arkansas.
Carried out bad man named Abdul Hakim rejected Mohammed.
Who shot a couple of soldiers killing one outside a recruiting station in Little Rock, Arkansas I went and did.
Some field research on that last year so it's not the first instance but certainly the most prominent.
Why is this something that we can expect more of these some sort of loan while they haven't al-Qaeda you know what happened and that.
Notion that we were going to have dirty bombs in September 11 was going to be filed by more and more -- -- Hasn't seemed to come to fruition but yet we now see these -- kind of -- things -- -- the Times Square bomber the underwear bomber and then tragically that's.
Why don't we have seen a big scale ones and wire we've seen as you pointed out they -- long -- -- -- with the question of what happened to al-Qaeda why didn't we see.
You an attack like this once every few months but there's number of reasons for that but let's jump to the most obvious 11.
Which is that you on September the eleventh 2001.
People assume that al-Qaeda had a pretty big infrastructure here in the United States and you can.
That discern that authorities were afraid that there is a pretty big al-Qaeda infrastructure based upon.
Their immediate -- responses.
It turns out that that al-Qaeda did not have as deep -- bench here as was steered.
And they didn't have -- deep bench certainly as the terrorist organization would have liked either -- a number of arrests since then.
That are related to al-Qaeda you had you've been both of those instances that I -- double -- the jacket behind it.
And that Nadal Hassan the individuals -- clearly inspired by al-Qaeda -- -- ideology.
But they simply haven't had the manpower to maintain a pace of attack it and more importantly a piece of competent attack.
When you look at had a number of the various spots in the United States you've had he has some confidence plotters certainly at the Boston Marathon guys were confident -- -- also -- a number of incompetence which is that it it's been very good for us as to homegrown terrorism.
If this is a phenomenon that that pre existed.
The September 11 attacks.
If you look back to the first World Trade Center Bobby -- 1993.
What -- the individuals involved in that plot was an American.
And obviously you've had not jihadist kinds of Holmgren terrorism including for example Timothy McVeigh.
-- the notorious bombing in Oklahoma City.
-- with the mental process and how does somebody go from being what these guys were they look like normal.
Young Americans immigrants going to good schools had a lot of opportunities.
-- the -- terrorists would babysit for his nephew how they go what -- steps that they get radicalized to the point.
Where they think there's nothing wrong with killing women and children and innocent.
No single radicalization process when you look at at people who are radicalized into a jihadist ideology and that act upon.
This extreme ideology.
In some cases it seems like the predominant theme that -- people as political anger in other cases the sense of adventure.
One prominent example of that is David Hicks the Australian.
In this particular case religious ideology looms large -- -- -- -- people right now are focusing on.
As a probable causal factor.
And certainly at information that's come out so far.
Resonates with other cases in both the Carlos -- case -- the ability in the -- the -- case -- -- -- -- Nadal Hasan case when you look at their radicalization.
Being radicalized into this ideology was quite important to them both of them talked about acting upon a sense of duty.
When they carried it out you as to what lures people it in the first place -- that something that that will differ.
From one instance the next initially investigators say they thought these guys radicalized.
By the Internet but recently you have more reporting from the Associated Press indicating that a Boston area convert kind of -- -- -- mysterious figure.
May have been important in radicalized in the older brother camera -- I will know more about this but -- based upon.
-- very radical statements that actually I've got him and he essentially kicked out of the Cambridge mosque.
And -- the testimony.
People who knew him seeing him become more of digits and more extreme in his views.
As well as you the is -- statement.
Of the younger brother.
That just came out as saying that that -- acted.
Based upon extremist ideology the data points are starting to fall into place suggesting that in this case.
-- the FBI dropped the ball the FBI have the older brother and their clutches the Russians have warned us about.
The the the older brother and yet somehow he came in for questioning he laughed he went to Russia.
And nobody kept track government just -- just seemed to defy common sense that they didn't have a lot of red flags what -- I think it's too early to say that they dropped the ball but but certainly that question has been raised and it's one that absolutely has to be pursued.
There's two different areas in which they may have dropped the ball the first was when.
And -- ended up warning that he did FBI.
About -- and arguing that.
He'd been radicalized -- was going to Russia to join up with an underground group.
We don't know in fact if -- be used with a jihadist group during his time in Russia that's what of those major pieces of information about this case.
That they're still isn't sufficient information on and he said investigators say that it looks like.
They acted alone I I certainly would not take that at its word.
Off didn't international connections or miss right away.
But because of the -- -- -- it's not clear.
That he was radicalized at the time the Russians contacted the FBI in such a way that the FBI would have been able to determine it.
The second thing is -- been reports and I can't tell you the accuracy of these reports because this is of particular case it was she's been a lot of bad reporting.
Out the gate but -- been reports that at the reason why.
His travel to Russia was missed by federal authorities was because of a translator ration error is that it is actually true.
Then it's at a very similar to -- Omar farouq Abu metallic case this was the December 2009.
Someone whose father had warned federal -- -- about the fact that his -- posed a danger but they didn't actually flagged him because there was you an error in the spelling of his name.
Now wild spell check would be -- pretty useful right now.
Dating -- Ross Foundation for the Defense of Democracies thanks so much for that unbelievable insight and information thank you.
Pleasure -- thank you.
Now want to turn to a man who is otherwise known as a real Middle East expert and somebody who really writes about what's going on at least fear of -- But I wanted to bring an end because he's written it ever really provocative article -- were a couple of and the one in the guardian in the end the -- Council on -- relations thank you so much for joining us having making.
I think he's that you have written and you're Muslim you -- -- -- -- Britain and the United States.
And you're talking about this phenomenon differently.
If I can just -- background say that I met with the head of MI five -- and I -- I -- -- and he said.
There's a real difference this is a couple of years there's a there's a real difference between great Britain and the United States.
In Great Britain.
Immigrants don't -- don't assimilate they tend to live in their own communities they got there aren't sure who they don't learning US -- America you -- just the opposite you welcome immigrants.
Now we're looking at this and saying maybe not and what I -- what you said as.
Our reaction to this seems to be on once sense either bigotry or any other sense tonight.
I think you're absolutely right in the way that you frame it that.
There's this course of consent that is worth us taking a step back and putting all this in perspective there almost ten million Muslims living here in the United States.
The -- an innocent Muslims in Europe look to these Muslims here in the US as examples of as accurately identify integration.
-- scholarship among Muslims and leadership that's native that's relevant to this part of the world that's not feeding off of the narrative in the Middle East.
The front of these two guys only two guys 119 and one point six year old have committed this criminal act should not then.
Lead dust too deep meaning what has thus far been very successful project.
And showing that Islam and Muslims can live side by side in an integrated peaceful little biting fashion.
As they've done in the US.
Says this is very much the nominee the exception to the rule and it's always important to remember that the exception cannot override the rule.
And most important more I think is seen in in Europe particularly in Great Britain that are almost 3003000.
Young Muslims who have being.
Monitor -- on a daily basis as to.
If they go into it and operational -- -- -- -- tee people if they will a support extremist terrorist acts in some way or another 3000.
Compared to just two individuals him maybe at most ten people living -- here in the US you know.
Says it's important to get to the bottom of this but it's even more important not to lose focus and not undermine the great work that's being done by.
Jews Muslims Christians and non believers in this country to illustrate to the rest of the world.
But Islam and the west I'm not fundamentally at loggerheads there is no clash of civilizations.
You know one of the things it struck me was when the older brother talent.
Went to the mosque -- denouncing Americans that -- in Cambridge Massachusetts thing was denouncing America.
And the people in the -- stood up an -- with him.
Now that's what you're talking about.
Yes -- that that's an excellent example of when it mainstream ordinary normal Muslims.
Here in America find.
Him arguing against Martin Luther King repulsive and expel him from the mosque.
It's probably worth saying that is expanding from them expelling him from the mosque is a wonderful noble the right thing to do it this engage him and show that most American Muslims aren't extreme.
But on another level -- to -- -- say he should not have been expelled.
One of the things that we have been Great Britain for -- -- fuels is something called -- channel project way.
If I as a Muslim observance of the Muslim at the mosque recover school or university who seem to be -- -- tip of the authorities have been identify.
A moderate Muslim scholar was able to engage with the extremist based on scripture religion observation of -- -- -- -- life.
He's talked to him a -- extremist home.
On a level that they understand IE through religious -- here in the US that's not quite happening yet been and -- the federal government to look into a project that.
Do you meals the extremist -- news.
Counseling and injecting doubt in his totalitarian mindset rather than these sting operation which seems to be the more -- -- and action full -- little -- here.
If these are people who command be argue with in recent -- and and then steered onto a better path or not necessarily all headed down the path of jihadist terrorists to go kill innocent women and children.
But that's right because they've seen this method of into dictating in their minds.
Punctuating the narrative that they believe in injecting doubt in the certainty that they possess we've seen his -- in Saudi Arabia.
Under the deal that president -- radicalization program the saudis have with scenes what Libya for all the fault of the -- is misty is what -- Egypt for all the fault Mubarak.
To putting aside the politics of these individuals.
You know the Mubarak and -- in this and the Saudi monarchy will they've successfully done.
Is large numbers of their population that have become extreme and radicalize and expose them to normative mainstream Islam.
And undermine the radicalism and extremism the putting doubt in the minds because once the extremists has doubts.
In his mind he can't commit a she can't commit a terrorist act because -- sent into believing in reward in the off -- from Gordon demolished.
To wants the Dow kicks and it takes months sometimes instance that -- retreat I'm not suggesting they become in.
And it PTA I -- and I don't but what we -- stop is disengagement from violence sometimes it become the united tries.
Sometimes they -- -- being counter radical activists that.
There is up possibly -- often feel that has something to -- learned from the saudis the Libyans egyptians and the brits.
-- the Americans the authority thus far haven't haven't utilized.
And while -- let me just explain -- one of the great things of the technology of the Internet is that we have people who are watching we're sending in comments -- to join the conversation so we have to give up.
-- Bob says that if you look at terrorist.
-- there are many different kinds.
But the majority of them that we see are Muslims out -- -- says.
You can be a terrorist without being -- jihadist look at Timothy McVeigh homegrown American terrorists had nothing to do with Islam.
Just the opposite.
So what is what do you say to somebody who says you have a majority -- -- terrorists are Muslim but on the other hand some -- the terrorists are -- Six statistically that works but there's a broader context that the al-Qaeda and its affiliates have -- more Muslims than -- -- -- -- and -- Muslims -- the first enemies of the al-Qaeda operatives who have seen this in Iraq and Afghanistan Pakistan that would seem to Somalia and elsewhere.
The fear that somehow it's most that is what terrorists -- that fifth and one maybe statistically proven.
Is strategically problematic because you isolate the very people that you need to -- -- side to win the war against extremists.
Now there are natural allies most Muslims Islam as a faith has condemned these acts of terrorism Muslim clerics across the world in -- hundreds of condemned these acts.
To put ever wanted them to everyone in long brackets it almost most terrorists and listen to their fullest on the most of their problem.
A short -- be counterproductive and -- doesn't -- -- strategy to defeat the problem that is terrorism.
But having Islam and Muslims and -- it.
We can overcome this problem.
Rather than play to the fear factor and and the crowd of bigotry that every time in this issue arises you have immigration -- -- you have Islam thrown in you have.
They're all kinds of -- of set points -- yes I understand the point that.
Ostensibly it it looks like Muslims who would go one step further and say.
There there was shades of Muslims and there isn't my there's a minority thwarted interpretation of Islam.
Funded if I may say give -- some of our allies in the Middle Eastern Canada says another yeah.
Especially with the North American mind in this context is more complicated and other from -- and terrorists happens to it was imminent with into.
-- -- What thank you so much for explaining how fat I want to -- people out to this article that you Britain and the guardian.
You know the file you add underscore -- -- -- -- -- relations and I just wanna close out this segment but are we got a break by quoting you.
You said America must know that its greatest strength against Islamist terrorism.
Is its Muslim populations.
From here with seductive.
-- huge testament street bridge to break and then come back and talk about Afghanistan and American water.
-- welcome back to -- country.
And -- -- we followed for a number of years and -- particularly the last couple of weeks is American veterans.
You know everyone from the president to all members of congress or do you -- American leadership says we're not gonna make the same mistake with -- Iraq and Afghanistan veterans we made with her.
Vietnam veterans we're going to honor -- They fought for -- they died for us they -- for -- now it's our turn to take care of them.
But guess what the dirty secret is we're not.
And that's why we have Paul right cough this president of IA BA that's Iraq and Afghanistan veterans association.
And he's gonna tell us what school -- -- -- What we're doing -- veterans.
Thanks for McCain to investors stand atop this issue.
Well I think most recently what our organization has been focused on is the atrocious VA disability backlog situation.
And -- Tyler from our position on a few weeks ago but just it remind folks how bad it is over 600000.
Veterans' disability claims are currently backlogged the Department of Veterans Affairs which means they've been waiting for more than a 125 days.
And if you're -- -- coming home from Iraq or Afghanistan and you file first time claim.
In urban areas like New York.
Los Angeles Chicago Reno Nevada you're gonna wait 600 days on average.
For your claim to be process so we've seen this monster bureaucracy.
That's been caught flat footed.
And right now our veterans are stuck in limbo waiting for this bureaucracy literally process their paperwork.
Of claims in the year 2013 are still on paper.
It sounds amazing and it is amazing but unfortunately it's true and we and other veterans organizations are working hard to push Washington to fix this once and -- Well we've got some answers from Washington.
Has some of the veterans administration sent a follow -- -- -- -- as -- I think today that's April 19 every regional office we'll begin implementing an initiative to ensure.
That those who've been waiting a year more for their conversation crime receive a decision quickly.
Veterans administration has completed.
Point one million claims since 2009 and provided over 58 billion in benefits.
And disability compensation to four point three million veterans and answer drivers in 2012.
That's about a 159 -- everything -- no time in our history of veterans received.
More direct compensation payments still more work -- -- I mean sounds like everything is Happy Land there we're getting -- all under control but if -- -- about people are waiting especially.
Did a legal veterans we're waiting 600 days mean that's so the point of being crew.
Well -- that's definitely a glass half fill perspective.
They have processed a tremendous number of claims that they put out a tremendous amount of money but they've still got a long way to go 900000.
Claims are right now pending.
And roughly a million veterans will get out in the next few years -- those numbers are expected to continue.
So I think you know there needs to be a grounding of the truth here in an understanding that the really the real number that matters is how long in Iraq and Afghanistan veterans.
And in those many cities it's 600 -- we routinely hear from IBA members.
Who waiting a thousand -- who waiting 12100 days and it's important to point out to -- it's not just Iraq and Afghanistan that many of these folks in Vietnam veterans gulf war veterans.
Who have now the presumption has been opened up for them it's particularly around Agent Orange which is a good thing.
But there -- a lot of Vietnam veterans that are also waiting for this paperwork so this is not putting a man on Mars.
This is not an incredibly complicated situation this is fixing a broken bureaucracy.
And the president of the United States needs to step up and show leadership and really get this problem fixed wants to -- it's also not just -- DOD is involved here other government agencies involved because there has to be cooperation information sharing record sharing and that hasn't been happening in and this is a terrible result.
Okay how how we help right what are what are Americans do what do people watching the show do you think it's it's just it's inconceivable to all of us -- an age of Twitter and it's a communications and everybody online and technology that somehow there's a piles of paperwork that's just getting lost in the shuffle so what do we do about it how we.
Get our people apple made it.
Well first dog go to our website go to IA BA dot org.
There's a petition you can side directed to the president we need the president to get involved.
There's also -- list of about 25 members of congress who signed that petition in support this effort we need that to be every single member of congress.
So call your congress people call your senators and ask them to focus on asking the president and the VA backlog.
Once and for all this is a nonpartisan issue everybody agrees it's outrageous but we need a plan to fix it Memorial Day is coming up in a few weeks at a -- a great time.
For the president to step up and announce he's gonna take this head on bringing people from the private sector.
Think about for example what folks in Silicon Valley.
Could add to this discussion folks from the health care industry folks from the veterans -- let's bring the brightest minds together to focus on what we all agree is a very important topic taking care of our veterans.
They've served overseas they fought for us when they come home they shouldn't have to fight the paperwork and unfortunately that's what's happening right now.
-- don't care -- you keep up the good fight we are gonna keep on this issue and again we are Americans that is bad for the soul of America to not do this in addition to the terrible travesty being committed on our.
Our wounded warriors are just are returning veterans who have fought as you point out and a number of wars they've planned for us it's time we -- -- little -- for them thanks so much.
Well thank you -- -- -- and -- -- you know months.
Okay now we're gonna have actually -- really happy story we're gonna go to Washington and talk to a lady a young Afghan woman who has just been named by time magazine.
As one of the -- most influential people in America now.
-- -- Talks about a hundred people.
Every year if people like the Pope it's people like Kate Middleton it's people like President Obama and it is people like you.
Where I am not -- thank you so much for joining us and congratulations on -- honor but I ask you what have you done.
To be mentioned in that same sentences.
As President Obama Kate Middleton.
And the -- And -- still.
I am make plays and hone it like -- so large and I a song that says.
Time my using and it's our teams that dame fan and Perez -- -- what they're doing in Afghanistan.
And and logical aren't the fact that I aimed -- van -- young woman and men to be is that business opportunities -- -- speak.
This is on a -- media.
And Allan what is no policy just Internet -- and yet estate to simply stay young the issue Afghan young negotiate.
And was like it.
Aren't -- and Gloria you're talking about Afghanistan.
You're talking about a high tech company that you found it.
It's got to be one of their least high tech countries in the world.
And -- especially focused on getting women involved in the technology and getting women jobs and it's also -- country.
Where only one in ten women even know how to read.
And probably very few women have access to the Internet so what inspired you to do this -- sounds like it are really.
Well it Afghan woman fiery red tape and a strong.
And if they are does that official at the plausibility I mean -- and opportunities that they Cilic did give them the skills.
And we tell us that this has shown -- the and in tennis nation can a pro -- -- And -- -- -- off the job opportunities.
And we wanted to be suspect they'll stand.
That -- -- not the cause additional cuts our.
-- for lighting them -- -- opportunity.
That they can is really connected to the blood.
And and then get financially independent and at -- and have an assist them the most jobs.
And and we have to say that dealing attending as that we have lots of changes in education site and you see enough of that woman wind a faulty iPhone.
Plus of an education and -- -- in the business.
And del Rio de ice it T we can't say that six at five persons of and -- fight erupting right knocked on in Afghanistan.
And you have eighteen million people who has the folks on and they have three -- -- weekdays.
-- as we can colliding.
-- trying you put a few months who had.
To be able to be independent.
Of the society.
What other things I was really impressed with Gloria is that.
Women in Afghanistan.
Don't have -- on computers so the Internet cafe -- where they get access to the Internet but often women are not.
Comfortable going to those Internet cafe so you've gone ahead.
And -- -- you've done to stop this problem you started some schools haven't here.
-- -- -- I -- I was looking in miraculous inside the tour de tour and that but you know I think he's sending it to land on their organization like you -- -- -- A detonation and that's going to facilities -- for the highest going along I mean taking -- So we decided to delight now with -- -- partnership with the from a nice we decided to -- lighting that.
I just -- -- for the high school and planned a few months hug to be a professional life says -- -- to be if -- -- out.
And -- -- can.
What you witnessed that a difference of young media and Andy can financially support themselves.
But they -- so much for joining us -- just shown some pictures you can't see about our audience can.
Of the schools that you started and Barack province and that's in western Afghanistan.
So we want to -- Fox News as their congratulations to you on being selected by time magazine.
As one about 100 most influential people.
And that in the world and as a real pioneer sir -- -- group thank you so much for joining us spending like an all out -- adventures.
Thank you thank you.
That's it for -- country we've had an opportunity go a little bit.
Further in depth into the whole terrorism crisis in the United States the Boston bombers.
What's in their mindset we've also learned about the Afghan and Iraq veterans and how the country is really letting them down and what you can do to help.
And then finally we talked to a young woman who against all odds is making a real difference in the world.
Thanks so much for joining us you can come back to foxnews.com live tomorrow morning at 11 o'clock for more exciting breaking news dumbest thing.