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-- jobless rate may be taking -- a bit but with nearly twelve million Americans still out of work unemployment benefits are still way up.
Now one state wants to make it tougher for some fired workers to collect -- appointment Missouri.
Pushing a bill to ban benefits for workers can't for misconduct or for missing too many days now proponents say this will help protect benefits for people who really deserve them.
Are they right -- raw.
-- her body -- David has been welcomed a Forbes on FOX let's go into focus -- -- Steve Forbes Rick Unger.
Rich Karl guard John Candy Sabrina Schaeffer and Mike goes they -- so Mike.
Is this a good law David -- -- Familiar with this precise details of this law but one thing we have learned is that incentives to work work.
The states that -- give the shortest duration of unemployment benefits by and large have lower unemployment rates than the states that give.
Long duration of unemployment benefits so on principle I'm for this plan well it's -- and a question should workers who were fired for -- sleeping on the job received.
Unemployment benefits because they can now that's what -- laws try to change.
I know what the -- trying to do David and some nice concept but in the real world it's going to be very tough to work its big government types are gonna latch on to this.
-- -- have an effect right rule books for her work.
Place rules and conditions so government can become intrusive it's also going to be a green light for trial lawyers going in and saying you shouldn't have done this he should've done that.
So nice concept but I think extremely difficult -- acute Sabrina is a -- Or bad one.
Well I love the idea of the lot I think anyone he's been a business -- who managed an organization knows what -- to -- -- about employee clarity but realistically implementing -- I'm afraid we're inviting government more into the workplace -- -- greatness in -- taken and ledges -- litigation.
And I'm not sure it's gonna do much to change employee conduct but.
Rich once again a 50 boss and and somebody's literally sleeping on the job.
Not today and I and I part of person -- died -- -- really deserve unemployment benefits.
I gap probably not bad as Sabrina and Steve -- pointed out what if the firing is due to some misinterpreted joke that somebody thinks this harassment somebody thinks is innocent I mean you get into these gray areas.
And you invite a lot of government intrusion lawsuits and saw I think Missouri is on the wrong thing for the right reason we surely have to bring down the costs of unemployment benefits but this is just this is walking into over land -- -- John let's be specific the cost of these unemployment benefits -- 42 billion dollars a year that's an enormous cost for governments and pay people -- a -- deserved to be can't.
Yeah I like.
The slot as I don't think government should be paying out these benefits let's remember businesses suffer the most because they pay into these unemployment systems.
And in doing so raises the cost for them of luring workers back from the sidelines.
And as for the notion of this being unfair I would argue that we as Americans live in the richest country on earth while much the rest of the world is impoverished.
Life isn't fair and we better hope that if life -- becomes fair we didn't worry about -- -- would -- like other people thank goodness life is unfair right now.
Unemployment figure that's as large as it is but.
There are some people who deserve to be fired right.
Sure sure about that unfortunately isn't the point -- a lot of folks on the panel gotten this right Steve got a right.
What sounds great great politics it's another one of this endless stream of state bills that we're seeing these days.
They could never pass judicial scrutiny they're wasting the time of the people who send -- their statehouses.
They -- gonna spend millions defending these lies that are never gonna make it through the courts.
It just all.
Hold -- -- say -- -- let me be specific on -- -- in what way do you think this was unconstitutionally.
I think or another -- there's nothing in the constitution.
About our right to receive unemployment and that.
That's not the problem you're actually right about that that's not the issue we have something called being void for vagueness.
You can't create a lot for say that's that sets yeah that sets up a situation like this who decides.
Who is slacking who decides who was correctly fired it was incorrectly fired do you want every small business in America to now have to part of -- annual.
Every year setting out all the rules what's what do you know.
I went and -- and all that let's just what -- got to raise experts second here's Steve shouldn't the boss be the one who decides whether person deserves to be fired.
Now that that that's not the issue here David the ball should have the right to hire and fires they see fit to the best in part of their company.
But in terms of unemployment benefits.
What you're inviting -- the government to come in and determine whether that was a justifiable firing or not but -- the government is -- the say the government is already in to the two would have.
42 billion a year that's right and it's created a big disincentive to work if you look at this recovery David.
The increase in unemployment insurance particularly the 2008 bill passed by congress reduce the incentive to work so what's happened is the labor participation rate under the so called recovery has actually declined which is very unusual under the Reagan and Clinton.
Recoveries the labor participation rate increase which is what you should be having direct recovery and shot once again John Candy nobody nobody likes to see people unemployed who wanna work but there are some people -- Rodham what do don't necessarily want to work should they be receiving these unemployment benefit.
It's no they should not and let's remember rich countries have high unemployment precisely -- rich countries can pay out benefits.
They created a disincentive for workers to get back into the work force.
States are -- laboratories of ideas I don't know why there's an aversion to try and assume one state Steve incentives matter and experiments matter if it works why not stick.
Well again you're gonna but I can tell -- in the real world you can invite the trial lawyers and government bureaucrats to re writing these manuals.
And a better ways to reform the whole unemployment insurance program.
Their ideas around for example in the future haven't like a 401K.
The employer employee puts money aside if they have a bout of unemployment.
They determine what to benefits they get so they're positive reforms it can be done.
But I just don't think I just think this invites more government and I don't want more government on the.
-- -- -- -- I think most of us here don't but rich Carlsberg you're always saying that states are are the great sort of Petri -- -- where we can experiment with ideas.
Why not go along with -- use this Missouri laws -- experiment to see how it works.
Well for all the legal landmines were talked about plus this a bit the true problem.
I really occurs at the other end of the stick and that's the disability.
People are -- the disability system -- that's why we've seen a disability claims go up four -- during the Obama's presidency that's where the bulk of the money is that's where the experiment should take place.
And and Mike in fact that's the attitude of a hundred billion dollars rather than 42 billion so it while it isn't but aren't -- sort sort of the -- part of his pay package that is people gaming the government welfare system right and it's been encouraged by.
This big Washington mentality where you've seen a lot of the welfare payments increase under the guise of well.
Things aren't good we have to help them but you actually create at this incentive which is why this has been the worst recovery we've had since the depression Sabrina quickly go ahead.
That's right and you look at California's disability system it is a disaster and is rife with fraud but I would say that the economy -- it stands right now should be incentive and not for employees to wanna perform well on the job and you don't want to lose your job right now I don't think we need another a lot of stuff and the way -- -- and thank you -- rest.
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