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Unfortunately you've grown up.
Hearing voices that incessantly.
-- of government as nothing more than some separate sinister entity that's at the root of all our problems.
Somebody say most -- also do their best to gum up the works.
No -- -- the tyranny is always lurking just around the corner.
You should reject these boards.
President Obama speaking to graduates.
What they call the Ohio State University I suppose it.
Definite article necessary to this ambiguity from Ohio university.
And this is power -- and and Chris tire -- I don't need -- -- because I don't know any others.
And welcome happy Monday it's good happy you know the president there was talking about.
It was it.
Ideological kind of address that he gave to students.
And it in Columbus at the horseshoe talking about why things don't work in Washington how they could work in Washington.
And he laid the blame substantially those who come up the works conservative ideologues he says.
Who warned of government but then whisper in the ears of lawmakers in order prevent things that are broadly popular from happen like I don't know.
Gun control maybe.
And that also holds true for immigration reform and other things that president says are not getting accomplished.
Because of the commerce and the whispers we will test is that -- this we will talk about what it means for the rest of his second term.
We will do that we will also have what I promise you it will be the smartest debate on immigration.
That you had ever heard -- we have two very smartest people on the -- -- here.
Mercy slap increased John Ramos are here we will do that they're very Smart they will Smart and lets all -- promise.
And you also talked to a lawyer.
Who is represented.
Small business owners in yet another different novel challenge to the president's health care law that is in fact based on.
-- previous challenge to health care law it's fascinating and quite possibly consequence so let's do those -- -- I think we showed.
And we can we can't do that because Meredith -- -- she is a staff writer for roll call.
And -- let me say this -- an era of title inflation -- I have to -- a very long titles that I have to wrangle with -- Right or wrong and it's like this is okay yeah I don't I don't know overstated I don't want a billion -- entry in my introduction because they -- -- at the bar nice and low and Monica.
And we can bring it down we can bring it up.
And I I think -- are calling you.
You imagine Michigan fans watching I'm just Chris every time he says although in the spirit of -- time the president to give an address at Michigan and at Ohio State well in this time as president.
You know that you can't he can't be accused of being biased towards -- he spent more time.
He's spent more time in and around Columbus.
Than any place else probably in the country is in Ohio Ohio Ohio has had to be kind of inconsequential.
But really yeah a little bit I don't know I -- -- -- thing -- Ohio could get a deal yeah.
-- except Meredith you had a Smart piece.
-- -- talking about this which is the president.
Once he signs.
The changes to sequestration.
As it related to the -- -- he said.
Okay we're not allowed to change sequestration except for the Pentagon and now the Federal Aviation Administration except for those who think now -- -- change.
But you can't do that because senate Democrats overwhelmingly went along with that and somebody else will come along and say hey wait a minute if you exempting them and exempting them should use -- these people -- So let's start and start with.
The -- -- debate is I think this is a really natural starting point to do.
About this -- yeah I you know I only hit -- -- -- I think -- a really important point.
Every single senate Democrat wanted to go over the class because.
They knew that if they have signs this tax package that Republicans were never gonna come back to the table and sequestration.
And so when the White House is trying to push this -- -- -- fighting could smile and say we got one.
They were really concerned and the the White House wanted to begin this two month delay -- that was the last piece.
That senate Democrats tried to negotiate out because they didn't want to see that happened because they had all is Republicans.
Who were nervous and up against the wall and they rarely gets -- Republicans up against the -- is they couldn't.
Go home for the holiday saying I'm sorry all of your taxes -- -- Because we are the party that's against accidents there was just no way -- think it logically make that argument -- in last.
They were going to be accused of protecting so.
The White House had no strategy in terms of like understanding congress and knowing.
That Republicans were gonna come back like they just assume the Republicans -- come back in good faith.
Which is never quite happened so now.
In lieu of that they put together the strategy that said okay.
What we want things to get so bad that there will be so much public pressure that Republicans will have to come back to the table.
And -- -- it's the first big issue that you saw people massively complaining about.
And then within a week they got rid of it and so it's like how do you see this working now because he said he won't negotiate along the dots the line.
And I don't see it even being removed if they did.
You might need -- get taxed -- -- for me but I don't see you rolling back sequestration so -- and they're stuck with it.
There's no way for them to get rid of it even though they think they didn't want it.
And I think it might be a problem for them because.
When you look at the kinds of tunes.
Constituencies that are being most affected not these travelers but the kids were getting bumped out of -- start it was a really great piece in the New York Times today.
About this anecdote about the spike town they were trying to sell chairs so they could keep the 130 kids from being kicked off -- -- head start.
And it's safe to stop -- so it's not enough -- those are people who don't have lobbyists are high -- business class yeah.
It really got there you -- it's about who it's about voters who were affected kids in head start don't vote and their parents don't vote in the same intensity.
As people who -- people who live in the event diagram about.
Who fly -- people who vote it is that's a huge overlap head start parents and voters that's there's less veterinarians that vet I have.
I haven't seen the numbers unlike what the actual overlap is there but I would say that -- if you're business traveler there is.
It's much more likely that there are ways for you to get your voice heard in congress not even -- votes but I -- Be sure that -- the he's the -- -- spent a lot of money lobbying on -- they were really really worried about the kinds of the fact that we're gonna happen to their business and then they -- consequently other business is because of this list.
This that we and the guns and then where nothing can.
We've had sequestration where the house Republicans got their way.
Than we -- president's press conference in Dana Milbank.
And Maureen Dowd -- the New York Times and others are quacking they're saying flamed out.
It's here it's happening the president is fighting for his relevancy is doing all that's -- now as we've talked about -- before that's only true until it is it.
If the Supreme Court vacancy or something occurs or if there's a shooting war someplace.
The president's -- he gets on a rapid acceleration so that George W.
Bush but how does this how does -- the chain of events to this point.
Affect the chances on immigration.
So a lot of people like slumping gun control and immigration together and from the beginning I always believe that there isn't much stronger chance for immigration and guns.
The White House strategy there also is interesting because their entire.
Argument was emotional and so if that was going to be your entire strategy should have happened January.
Thank you shouldn't wait until April if you're gonna can -- a more strategic argument fine.
Wait till April that they did.
And they just was less -- to do it I think the minute that Harry Reid is senate majority leader said.
We're gonna you regular order on guns and immigration apparently he's gonna have to both in -- Senate Judiciary Committee that was the moments that.
They're serious about immigration and not -- and I've gone it's because there's much more of -- political incentive at this point the Republican Party.
To be on board.
Well there there if there is division among other Republican Party and I think.
That watching how those divisions play out these next few weeks and months will be very telling on what the party might look like in 2014 or 2016.
Because the kinds of disagreements that are inherent in this argument I think -- and challenge the party and a -- much larger scale.
But it I don't know if -- work I happened to be baseline cynical but I know that there are a lot of people who are feeling good.
Optimistic it's a good baseline to keep here you know one of those people who likes to lump together against immigrants and me.
I -- -- wrote a column that I just treated.
We -- Entertainment education and delight.
But I think and I think you should follow Twitter -- that -- that with that.
But I I do think this Meredith then as we get that the two issues are different and they are definitely different dynamics happening there.
But there's an underlying theory behind all of this -- -- which is do it now.
Get it going -- they're doing regular order but it's an irregular regular order in the sense that you have again made it's gonna come together and -- and how Long Will it stand.
Yeah we get an entire show about how ineffective gains have been.
In congress letters on health care that budget game.
But -- will say this I think.
You could have.
A million hearings and the people who don't wanna see this -- that's on still look at want to see this -- -- done and the longer you spend with it the more time you keep going line by line by line.
Like to the point.
Where your overdoing it I think it just it makes it even more complicated.
You know what you you need to come back sometimes and have this discussion witches.
Don't do it because comprehensive.
I think is great for the old days.
In the pre Internet the pre whatever days you do something big.
You go back here you come out and then you run like the Dickens.
Try to get through get a pass and then get to the other side and they do that as Nancy Pelosi.
That said you know we have to pass it for you to find out -- -- -- sense of let us do not go ahead.
And she was one of the best people are passing those apps that are it was a way that we honor that was -- -- it was the old school thinking was like get past.
And worry about selling it in dealing with the political fallout from -- on the other side.
I posit this.
What will be successful in the future in the in the current regime in America -- you got to go smaller.
And you gotta have something that's understandable so that people can.
Digest it instead of having 900 pages that have loopholes that people -- The final thought Imus and whether or not immigration will be successful -- -- one of the things I think about is that like last time around Ted Kennedy was that -- for the Democrats who was trying to attack in this area.
And now it's Chuck Schumer and first thought isn't it isn't if it's is.
It's if it's very different thing but then again the political moment is different -- -- I'm not in the business of prognosticate whether or not vote at the end of the day get the votes to do it but I think that this is that the president -- -- much better chance on us you know -- Of at least getting it to go beat the Republicans about the head and neck with -- in the house yeah -- whatever -- we would have -- you would have -- -- now.
As promised want probably -- not probably American equipment today.
We will stay with a definite articles here.
These smartest -- the smartest discussion on immigration.
That you have ever heard is coming up on the other side of this break so -- around.
Senator from Illinois is a Democrat and he was on CNN's state of the union saying.
The gang is the -- the plane as the plane and the bill is the bill we've been working on this thing for six months.
So let's get it let's get the show on the road.
Meantime Marco Rubio and Republicans who favor.
That's it immigration reform say this is a good jumping off point now let's have about one million months -- I -- hearings.
In which we discuss this.
We will not need one million months.
Because we have two very bright people talk about this now you know Christiane Ramos but he is a policy advisor at the new democratic network a center left democratic think -- Seeking to be forced to re invigorate the Clinton third way is that close and it's good about it OK okay director -- but yes policy.
That's and we -- just segment -- inflation.
The upper hand -- America's flash is the co-founder of code strategy she's a former White House senior staff member under George W.
And she does is -- your debut performance -- it is -- actually trying her best and you know.
Her husband Matt I don't know her husband matter and as unlikely as it seems she is in fact -- to match play her.
So here's where we start and was -- -- you -- The we're just -- -- this in the last segment the old thinking in Washington was basically this you get a group of senators together you come up with a piece of legislation.
And then you ride like you are in the Kentucky Derby to get that thing to the post as quickly as possible get it through.
And that everybody brace themselves for any backlash and see if you can do it.
But the problem is that hasn't worked for like I don't know fifteen yes but that that's that's sort of the old way but there's also the knowledge that if this happens when Marco Rubio is now describing it.
Which -- -- -- -- process with even if you can get through the senate the house is waiting there to kill it with brick bats.
So is there a way forward for this that somehow deals with those -- reality.
Yes I'm actually glad you brought up Marco Rubio -- anything to say the way that he structure this and put it out there which is we have an open amendment process in the Judiciary Committee you have an open amendment process.
On the senate floor allows those who have -- -- that on both sides of the out to address them within the legislation -- and I think if you're able to do that.
And get enough votes in the senate you absolutely have an opportunity to put pressure on the house and not pass a -- -- vote.
On this piece of legislation and move this thing to the president to sign and everyone's happy.
But -- listening to.
Chuck Schumer and listening to Dick Durbin over the weekend it did not sound like they were down with that.
Kind of process it sounded like -- feeling like we better get this thing done for The Heritage Foundation and others cut it into really really don't.
Elusive momentum and that's kind of what we're seeing a bit because of focus and -- council shouldn't be focusing on the economy should we be focusing on other issues and so -- integrations on the table.
And I think senator river has done deliberate and very stop.
In -- -- campaign style to try to sell this piece of legislation now I look when I was thinking too conservative radio.
And that's senator rubio is on he gets off and all of a sudden they say we love Marco but we hate this but I didn't.
But right now again I think that the way the senator rubio has structured where he's actually has a website now that you can go to and -- website you can.
Deliver some comments they -- Helps continue this conversation helps to find ways to improve the bill again it's gonna fall on the hands of the house.
Which will be you know again I'm looking at it like a 60% chance of passing because the house as we -- with Judiciary Committee chairman couldn't let.
Once it piecemeal it and there are certain areas that we can agree on my mandatory.
Sticking point on the pathway to citizenship which we're having.
You know typical -- I'm glad that she actually brought that up because they are glad -- that you're I -- every night.
-- because that's really the issue here is.
-- this is political issue for the Republican Party at this point they really want to pass something to get in the good graces the Hispanic community.
And I cannot over emphasize this enough passing peace in the legislation passing anything with the legal status in it.
Is just as bad as a self deportation stuff that came from Mitt Romney in the 2012 elections it doesn't want.
Because it doesn't.
It's as bad as Mitt Romney is about a bunch I am Hispanic and I might -- also with the -- I think with the promise that conservatives think really want to see these enforcement triggers.
Actually happened their biggest concerns is that -- these loopholes in this legislation and tell us locals are fixed.
They really want to see that before moving into providing that special pathway to an -- Underlies it is bad that why why is it is bad to do for Bob good glad to be piecemeal in the house and this is where we -- -- I think if there was actually just new forward US marks -- at -- groups but out of we'll take 72% of conservative support immigration reform which includes.
Pathway to citizenship border security.
Holding employers accountable four hiring undocumented immigrants all of those things.
So this is a popular piece of legislation it's even more popular with Hispanic communities if you pass it peacefully.
You know Saxton -- -- not getting as much support even from desert.
-- -- -- doing so and what you would expect to see happen would be that if the senate let's say thank.
But let's say let's say that this -- and it passes.
But let's say the senate can pass something they serve it up to the house in the house as we'd like your bill.
Kind of -- we like it in fort bills that we're gonna ask one at a time if I start sending back enforcement first senate Democrats say no deal.
And then at the end it what what happens is is that no one's happy because.
What happens at the the Democrats can go back 2014.
And say Hispanics look Republicans are not on your side are not helping passengers do we need to -- Drew -- immigration process in orders for Republicans to happen.
More conversation with the Hispanic community on other issues like the economy like health care that we can talk -- about our principles and so -- so -- gets off the table.
We we just can't but we were going to be in trouble I mean I think the Republican.
We'll have to present vikings rule who wisely.
Suspiciously follows me on Twitter says this demographic oblivion that's in the camera my column today you hit the nail there today meaning Republicans would never see the Oval Office again.
Now that's not true.
But it is true that as America becomes a majority minority country which is what's happened.
If Democrats can continue to say dear Republicans you are racist and white people who it's it's going to be pretty difficult to get other voters.
Absolutely it's incredibly difficult and I'm seeing states like Arizona -- like tax hole you said that before.
Are you sad that -- once true -- So he doesn't agree with you don't know -- just -- the taxes are more conservative than Republicans and put on Medicare on -- issues like this it really turns the models using a daily issue risk we are the door where it would.
You need Republicans to be part of the process if the Democrats which I don't think -- happen.
Take control of the congress and then win the White House -- -- a very lenient -- immigration and then we have no voice in the process at this point we have a boys we have.
A sense we have a legislation that we need to improve yes we need to pass amendments make it better make it stronger in the enforcement mechanisms.
But those are the issues that need to do it otherwise we're going to be part of the process in the future.
And present for the Democrat I today called it -- Jack McCoy approach to this for the president there's one deal here -- you can either take it.
Or there's nothing else in -- going up the river.
For Democrats just as we're talking in the previous segment on the fiscal cliff.
There's a lot of motivation to say you know what if the Republicans are gonna give us a deal that we like.
Let's let this thing go because his -- says the next deal will be even more favorable to their.
-- -- two things the enforcement provisions in this legislation are incredibly stringent I easily loophole thing I'm not buying that there -- not really that many -- is thirteen years there's multiple checks and it.
It's difficult the border metrics are -- -- -- -- a lot of work there the second thing.
I'd rather gonna attack.
Ten seconds each has not -- certainty goodness I think it's like 60% chance -- it -- that's ahead okay.
I'm gonna 80% of past extremists that I think I was sick that's more like -- potted plant that is powerful we do we -- that.
We're -- optimism it's complicated.
You very much important issue here.
Take a quick break but when we come back this something you're gonna wanna hear about we have with -- constitutional attorney who's here to talk about his case that looks to take advantage.
The crack in the armor of the president's 2010 health care law.
To undo it or substantially and do it it's Pakistan -- talk about it when we come back sister program.
And those are the -- -- of the musical group journey.
Who famously said.
Don't stop believe it.
And this is our class and those musical philosophers -- in -- said don't stop believing.
And for conservatives.
Who are concerned about the president's health law despite.
Having mostly lost that the Supreme Court last year.
And the president being reelected they they're not going to stop believing that the president's -- -- be.
Slow delayed change there and done.
And someone who have made quite central to that effort.
It's my -- -- is an attorney with the ball from -- Jones day is that true yes OK good now when you're talking to a constitutional -- -- importantly we won quite precise.
Now Mike I've read about in the Wall Street Journal great write up on this case you -- he represented the National Federation of Independent Businesses in this.
I represented enlist them in the general -- -- -- -- this time it's just three small businesses rose -- and if I've got it right what's happening here is that.
In the supreme court's decision.
They said the federal government can't compel or punish -- for not participating.
In the president's -- which means that there's the honeycomb effect across the country.
And in the sense establishing these insurance exchanges.
You represent businesses in these states and and individuals to write yeah that's today.
Wolf if I can't have the law as it was written if the laws it was written doesn't invited me than the law than the whole -- doesn't but right.
Yes a very straightforward losses if you live in the state with the state government runs the exchange they can impose a penalty on you as an employer if you don't -- the insurance that Obama -- wants.
Google's decision don't get these subsidies through employee.
So the IRS saw that plane wants it just the house.
Because they knew that the federal that 33 states and to declined to participate -- -- they said -- whether states where editor of the federal government runs and still it.
And that's completely contrary -- text and the law says that the states have to do this.
The law says that the states are encouraged to do it and -- given these various incentives.
And then even though they gave him the incentives 33 states that note thank you.
And they nonetheless are still trying to impose -- employer penalty in those states even though the states.
Opted out did the language of the law and my goodness it's long time.
Think you've now had if you're gonna have created a second -- my my my my heart is with you.
But does the law and make any provision for what you do with the states don't act.
Oh it's quite clear that if they don't act and you don't have these subsidies and you don't have these employer penalties but the IRS it just the apps that -- no go ahead and and penalizes employers.
Even in states where the federal government is running the exchanges -- the statement -- well this.
Most most of what I've read crime since I have small children I have not read it I just always assumed.
That this status of reverting to the federal government and having the federal governments -- -- this exchanges.
And administer this stuff on the state level was part of the law -- -- -- -- in other -- they contemplated that states might say you know where they miscalculated was the volume of states except you know.
So it's going to revert to the federal government and when it reverts the federal government in those 33 states.
You can't find where penalize -- so -- And you can't give these subsidies through the exchanges so it makes the system -- -- -- and frees up my clients to say no.
We're gonna stick with the insurance policy -- technical legal term is it flu hit.
Jones day today -- it absolutely agree in the the question.
It is for these folks if if you were to -- you -- this in appellate court here in DC -- you're tracking for this near a quick hearing the Supreme Court right we're -- we're hoping to.
It that's the hope before these individuals is that they will be able to what the penalty but the hope for other people is that this would be another another.
-- work against full implementation of the law people who would definitely did.
I mean if we prevail on this -- that means that in 33 states employers don't have to pay any kind of tax or penalty if they failed to offer the federally mandated insurance it says that these subsidies that's -- -- make.
Obama care affordable and these exchanges won't be forthcoming so it really I don't think it worked to -- well as written.
But it really won't work well under -- for most.
It's a fluid there you have it now you know Internet and Mike thank you very much so to speak that's great excellent preacher okay Internet here's some bad news -- There's no Charles today it's Monday but you expect.
But neither is there any power points I was in Iraq.
Quite frankly and I didn't -- them.
So whether you think that's good news or bad news that's the truth.
But good news of redeeming piece of news is this that on the hunt with Jonathan Hunt is up next enjoy that have a great day and we'll see you back.
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