Also in this playlist...
This transcript is automatically generated
Now I kind of got Jerry Boykin.
Who was one of the original members of the army's delta force where he commanded a -- warriors in combat operations he also command of the army's green beret.
He's participated in clandestine operations all of of the world.
And nobody knows more about special operations.
General boy can organize a letter signed by more than 700 special operations veterans.
Asking the house to form a special select committee on -- -- Also with us today former State Department senior advisor during the bush administration.
And author of the forthcoming book Smart power.
Between diplomacy and war Christian -- General I want to get right to a burning question.
The administration and military officials including the chairman of the joint chiefs said there were no assets that could have been moved in place.
For a rescue operation.
To it at least intervened.
Is that is that a realistic honest and plausible answer.
Governor I don't believe so you know we created the delta force and seal team six back in the late seventies early eighties to be able to respond to just this kind of thing and then and they early ninety's we put him extremist forces.
In every theater and their primary target was embassies.
That we have the six laid out in the Mediterranean.
And we have a variety of other assets in all across the southern liberals to say we could respond I find incredible.
Shame on us but I don't believe that well but some of the answers -- and it might have put these folks in danger I thought that's what they trained to do is to go -- danger.
Governor who we stood these forces -- there were designed to rescue people we knew that we would never have all the intelligence we need we knew we would go at a higher risk but it was an issue of American values it was the value of never leaving.
-- fallen comrade to fall into the hands of the enemy.
When you are.
Under attack we're going to be there that was the whole point -- and so to say that.
We didn't know enough to -- I don't buy that I think that that is incredible and I think somebody needs to be taken to task over that.
Realistically how long would it have likely taken -- -- put somebody.
On the ground are even overhead.
-- just flying an F sixteen at low altitude to scare the daylights out of somebody how long would that likely have taken and in -- Yet governor I think that would first -- we could've gotten aircraft there in probably.
Three to four hours.
And that certainly would have helped with the second attack now to get boots on the ground I think we could have gotten there in five or six hours if we had.
Really scrambled throw caution to the wind and made an all out effort to give boots on the ground to save these people and if we couldn't -- -- To bring their bodies home.
Aren't Christian from -- department.
A state perspective talk about the protocol that happens within the department in the C is under attack.
Who makes the call to the military to say.
Help us come get us do something -- be primarily a military decision their only two civilians in the chain of command the president the secretary of defense but.
You have something called chief of mission authority where the ambassador in a country is.
The head of all US government employees there of course that chief of mission was incapacitated.
And his deputy was denied permission to act so really a break down.
From the beginning but we don't really know who gave those stand down orders although all the arrows seem to be getting closer and closer to the Obama White House Christian are you concerned that there is concerted effort to have to make this seem like it was just an unfortunate incident and that nobody really is responsible -- it was just one of those days that everything went -- was sure if you look at Jay Carney is performance yesterday the White House spokesman where he explained away how.
You know talking points that said this was terrorism this was.
On -- Al Sharia the al-Qaeda affiliate in.
-- this was clearly an attack on America's ambassador by terrorists by -- how that got changed how we just tried to explain that away.
Yes clearly there's a cover appearing clearly just a fiction being written I think the press hopefully is catching on to it though.
Talk about what probably happens within the State Department and the people who worked there.
When they see people above them running for cover and essentially saying -- there was any blame it's those folks down there at the lower levels.
Does that lessen the confidence of people in our State Department and make them think that -- I'm on my -- down here.
I think so and it's interesting if you look at people like mr.
-- who is testifying before congress.
These are not people who you would presume to be hostile to the -- -- administration the foreign service level the career.
Guild of diplomats that exists at the State Department is naturally democratic and left leaning these people never thought they would be at a hearing.
That's making a democratic administration squirm so to take that step they really feel upset they really feel they're being thrown under the bus by politicos at the White House.
When we come back coming to talk to both you more about what.
What we can expect to see unfold over the next step few months and perhaps even years this could be awhile before all the layers of the onion come forth.
General and -- -- stay with -- we'll be right back with more.
-- -- the personnel react to being told to stand down.
They were furious.
Back -- -- -- Sporkin and Christian white and former State Department official.
General they were told to stand down they were told not to go -- I want you to describe who has the authority to tell that.
Contingent to stand down and how high up is that order likely to have come from.
Well us while we need more hearings governor first of all to see the order to actually engage troops.
In their rescue operation cast come from the president unless it's a military facility and then the commander has.
Certainly targeted but it has to come from the president.
To put troops in harm's way.
Now in that case because we don't know enough of the details that -- come from the commander of the Africa command.
That told them to stand down -- play that all the way out.
Who told him not to allow them to.
And I applaud.
I submit this hearing has left us with an awful lot of questions.
That have to be answered and subsequent hearings because the question you ask.
Is a question that needs to be answered by a responsible people.
And Christian if these request for coming out been Ghazi and also out of Tripoli because that's where mr.
hicks was -- in -- we wanna go.
His response was that personnel there wanted to be turned loose to go and do what they could and when they were told they could not they were furious.
Sort of indicate what your experience is with people who are career.
Foreign service people that.
When it comes down to it day they are Americans first and their ideology goes out the window.
I think certainly and if you look at some of the comments some of the military folks the CIA folks were highly impressed that the diplomats were really take risks.
To help rescue or at least ten to their comrades so this really was shocking -- you know where did it come from if you look back.
At the White House in particular Denis McDonough who is now the White House chief of staff was -- that time.
The deputy of the National Security Council pulled together meeting along with Ben -- and others which is probably.
Where this -- but I think you know we don't have -- -- yet we need to get it but where some of these very bad and dangerous decisions were made and where the cover up really had its Genesis and we don't know where the president really was we know we had one phone call that night but otherwise.
No photos of him in the situation room.
No indication no.
Even White House official comings and the president was monitoring this from the situation -- -- from the Oval Office or even from the residence.
We have no idea what his engagement and involvement was.
Now general in a lot about accusations of come from Democrats saying that this is all about politics just to embarrass.
The president your military guy.
And and and you led an effort 700.
Special forces people.
To sign a letter.
Was -- a political statement on your part and those of the 700 special forces individuals.
-- governor wasn't.
These people are people have spent their military careers.
Preparing for -- and launching operations to rescue Americans -- to recover their bodies.
It only took us few days to get -- seven -- retired and former special operations people because -- passion runs deep.
There is no way that we could have watched for diplomats die without launching a military attack and less.
Something broke down in the system and I think -- will find ultimately is that the decision making process broke down.
But we feel passionately about we don't care about the memo that was change we don't care about what Susan Rice and what we care about is.
Why did we leave for Americans own their own because as a message to every man woman.
In the future that we put into harm's way that if you get in a tight spot we're not gonna come and get -- and remember this.
We have tecumseh Sherman said to you let's assess grant and a letter and 1864.
I knew were -- was that she thought of me and if I got an a tight spot you would come if alive.
That's a national its -- I understand that there's a lot of anger.
Within the military and within the intelligence community feeling like that they have been essence blamed for everything from the rewrite of the memos.
Does this mean that at some point.
These folks are gonna break their silence come forward and start telling the story because they want.
To preserve their honor and their dignity and I especially think the CIA guys who I respect so much because they've.
They put their lives on the line.
They risk everything and they don't get the opportunity to go home and tell their families what they've done for America today and they're being blamed for all this -- some of them start breaking and telling their.
I think the next set of hearings.
They -- start bringing in some of the military people as well some of the CIA people and asks these questions like you ask.
Shall I spent two years as CIA I'm tired of see in the CIA get beat up they they seem to be the whipping boy -- -- because they live under.
Such a cloud of secrecy that you can't.
Know what's going on there but these are good people they're honorable people the CIA never would've left those people behind -- -- know all too well.
But there's got to be more hearings -- were calling for a bipartisan commission with subpoena power to bring in these military.
And CIA people and get to the bottom of this.
Well I hope it happens general thank you very much for your perspective Christian for yours both of you having firsthand not.
Filter by section