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So the question remains who is responsible for targeting -- conservative organizations.
So again and I think if you look at -- the record it answers your question.
There are -- names in the inspector general's report.
So I'm asking you not only is acting commissioner but as the deputy commissioner over this organization.
Who is responsible.
For targeting these these individuals so I don't I don't have names were -- -- and and I am willing to try to find that out.
Well that was Republican congressman Kevin Brady of Texas grilling the outgoing IRS commissioner Stephen Miller at today's hearing about the IRS is targeting.
A conservative groups still no answers to exactly who ordered the action and he he actually said I not for I can't remember.
But there is a growing debate about whether we already know who was responsible and whether it is the man at the top President Obama.
Wall Street Journal columnist Kim stressful today writing that he -- the president didn't directly order federal officials to target conservative groups.
His administration for years quote repeatedly suggested and quote.
That some of these groups were a threat to our country.
The attack and did.
What ever -- -- Who's behind.
The -- the oil industry could be the insurance industry.
-- even before I don't corporations you don't know could they don't have to disclose.
That's not a threat to Democrats -- the threat to our democracy.
I think everybody should be worried that.
Special interest groups that have already clouded the legislative process.
Are soon gonna get involved in even more active way in doing the same thing.
Men and women serving time.
If we make the house -- -- -- But some does -- sound points don't play when we want to do there's more I mean listen that we could have done a SoundBite that went on for four minutes with clips of the president and his.
Emissaries his advisors coming out ripping on these so called special interest groups who's who won't disclose -- donors to talk about final on -- force.
The very groups that have been targeted by the IRS joining me now Lou Dobbs host of Lou Dobbs tonight and the Fox Business Network.
And Joseph Trippi former Howard Dean campaign manager and Fox News contributor.
-- so you know 520 fours -- these campaign organizations they're not supposed to be devoted entirely to political matters they can do some politics.
And they -- the cross hairs of the president many on the left beginning in 2010 in particular and that is exactly when this scheme was hatched.
At the IRS by a quote team of specialists.
Even though the law didn't require them to disclose their donors you heard the president they won't disclose their donors they don't disclose.
The IRS would get to the bottom -- at the IRS would find out who their donors where.
Miller tells us today Lou that this was not connected to the White House at all.
But some the team of specialists but it was doing the right thing.
I am if I may say at the outset I think that Steve Miller's testimony today is appearance before the committed -- means committee.
The most powerful committee in the in the congress.
I in his arrogance and his insistence.
That that he would not and he made very clear.
That he was beyond the power of the United States congress he was not serving the American people and any answer that he provided.
-- that said what we are looking at here is in my judgment -- without any question.
The beginning of an investigation that will be broad base that will flow to other committees well be on ways and means.
Because this is obviously an Internal Revenue Service.
Led by a completely partisan and incompetent.
A man who is defying congress and defying the right of the American people to know.
This is a big deal and -- chairman Dave Camp of the Ways and Means Committee today learned.
That this is going to be a good part of his schedule for the remainder at least of this year.
-- -- question of the -- is in trouble they're in trouble but the question is whether it you know this was.
At the top and we -- Ted Olson the former solicitor general of the United States on this program yesterday who said.
Rots from the top.
And that that's what can -- Solis is positive -- that he didn't -- have to find some smoking gun memo or President Obama calls up the IRS and said do this.
In those clips he was doing it his ambassadors were doing at that message she was sending about.
Tea Party groups and spent 501 -- -- that's what led to this.
But that look the president was always against these.
These kind of groups and not both sides of me and one of the big problems with Democrats during this entire period was the president was urging.
Democrats and progressives not to start these groups and for that the donors not to fund them and it wasn't until very late in that in the 2012 process.
Where he finally I was angry at him for doing -- finally caved in said.
Okay its donors start -- create the groups start for forming them and Democrats started playing playing game -- if I agree with with though.
That aside -- meet someone I don't think what the president the president is campaign against the NRA in the recent.
Gun control debate saying that they had too much power that they were.
Giving too much money to members of congress that's not a signal to the IRS -- the FBI or anybody to go investigate them.
-- -- -- -- -- And and I think if -- -- one the IRS is in trouble.
Two I agree.
We've -- Lou when you look at the committee today.
As Megan as you pointed out hard to tell Democrats from Republicans.
A lot of unity.
And they're gonna get to the bottom of this and it is through this investigation is gonna find out what happened but I don't think it's gonna get to the president or the White House knowing I believe he was it was he was.
Making a political argument that he's been very clear about from the very beginning of these groups and the Citizens United.
And it doesn't point out any humidity has been so clear and that's -- it may be somebody at some folks in his administration.
Took that message I mean it is -- points -- we have frank McManus lid on Fox News this week -- -- -- -- -- -- -- an -- practice tonight by the way.
He talks about how he was big big round he donor help to campaign finance -- -- Romney.
And and no sooner does the Obama campaign come out and call him a person of less than reputable record.
That's how they described him on their website a wealthy individual with a less than reputable record.
He gets audited.
Two years of his taxes Department of Labor -- -- forms of -- of an audit at his cattle -- the IRS some forms of the second audit.
He'd never been audited before any subjected to three in four months.
After president Obama's campaign team calls him out as less than reputable I mean that's the type of situation that can trickle down.
-- this is.
As we focus on the Ways and Means Committee hearing today.
These are just pieces.
If you -- of a very much larger hole.
And this is a systematic conduct on the part of this administration.
Remember we're looking at not only the Internal Revenue Service were looking at the Justice Department.
And it's intrusions.
Upon the first amendment rights of the Associated Press its writers its editors.
We are looking at fast and furious -- the attorney general the top law enforcement officer in the country held in contempt of congress.
We are talking about almost nine months later.
The American people have not been given a direct and full answer as to what happened and been gauzy and why it is not an accident.
This is the president of the United States it is his administration.
He is accountable.
And for crying out loud he said with a straight face that he wanted senator Chuck Schumer.
Just stepped forward and introduce again the shield law for journalists which is the he is saying to the entire country without so much the so much as a single.
Blatche are weak.
That he is asking -- Schumer.
To protect journalists from his Justice Department so he can't do to Obey him.
What he has already done to the Associated Press this is we are looking at a I have a farce that is being played with the values the traditions of the laws of the United States he has -- -- war on those value.
-- -- John because that that the question is -- get past this this accusation that look you sent the message you you set the tone without firing.
Everyone involved in this to a material degree at the IRS I mean lowest Lerner what she still doing there.
What about the local hatched this scheme who perpetrated the -- -- who never raised a red flag about doing this.
Well maybe he can only there's only two people and he points in the IRS that the commissioner who's now bond and I think I believe the the chief counsel.
Everybody -- slow -- He's got some -- the president's got the power of the podium and he can call me.
Or we don't want I think -- They don't look at the Treasury Secretary -- on it but he can't do you can't do it I mean it actually.
There's so insulated -- this is one of the interesting things about this I think has to be solved here.
There are so insulated that the that congress Ways and Means Committee.
The president the United States cannot fire -- -- if they wanted to -- -- -- -- there's -- he can call for a they can -- opportunity -- did call -- it again today.
But she's the one we -- either resign or the process.
The the process.
Finding cause finding her responsible for that cause.
Ending and then firing her path to go through because Jesus is that the because of the -- that have been put in place.
-- or maybe let's look at this woman who is who is is Sara hall -- with her who ran a program and now she's ready obamacare program elephant -- department and that that does not still Communist too I can't -- -- -- next to be quick final word -- This is a mess that's gonna get bigger and this mess goes straight to the heart of this president's decision -- -- to take this country.
Thanks Lou always gets the final words our hearts out Fitzpatrick it is too.
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