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Jordan a Republican and member of that house oversight and Government Reform Committee.
President great to see you what do you make of that will Cindy Thomas -- -- -- do you think to the witness list and forced to come in answer.
To whether she had a role in this -- Think the chances are very strong and be much.
She answers to -- learned the very lady who took the fifth and -- yesterday.
So obviously sees important some of those agents -- -- Thomas we've already asked them to come in for transcribed interviews with oversight committee staff.
But here's a key to this whole thing make.
Every time he pulled a -- this -- unravels even more so it's gonna take some time even the Democrats understand we need additional hearings we need a real investigation.
So this -- gonna take some time but we are going to get to the bottom of this because it's so important to the American people so important.
To -- our system of government and that's why that's why we're -- to get to the bottom up.
The -- it looks right now on I'd buy may not have my power chart exactly right but you had Stephen Miller who is now seeing testified numerous times he's the guy looks like Elliot gold.
Manila below -- -- this guy Joseph grant he's the other guy who lost his job and all this he resigned.
And then the need to Joseph grant is slowest learner who we saw take the fifth and then you've got a woman named holly has and CN Thomas now holly as we heard -- testimony about her yesterday.
She's the supervisor.
Of all these folks one of them anyway.
And they had her in all the interviews that the IG did -- the low level people.
Unbelievable I mean yeah -- -- -- was interviewed by committee staff on Tuesday of this week he indicated that the interviews that the inspector general to.
Where he talked with folks trying to get the bottom this she was president that it present in those interviews.
So how do you get to the truth when the supervisor is present with the folks you're trying to ask questions and get.
Get to choose from so even even ranking member coming said you can't do that we're trying to investigate and get at the truth here.
So again as they said the more strange you pull the more this thing falls apart.
And it's why I just -- it underscores.
How important this is -- that we're gonna have to investigate it may take awhile but we are going to have to get to the true.
Yes so if this holly has answers to lowest Lerner has taken a -- Query whether these lower lower level employees are gonna wanna say.
It was -- told us or whether they're gonna wanna say it was holly hasn't told us more than they're gonna say it was Cindy Thomason told us to do it who reports directly to.
The woman who's sitting in the interviews without having that they did.
The way it was conducted and the idea you know I obviously did his best to be fair but there were some questions about how -- handle I want to ask you another question.
Because we saw today it an exchange that you had yesterday.
With children Douglas -- who was the commissioner of the IRS up until relatively recently for five years he's -- bush appointee.
But he sure did seem to visit the White House a lot more than we are told is typical.
For the commissioner of the IRS want to play that exchange for the viewers.
-- got -- White House for meetings I had a number of occasions goes away how many times -- the White House.
Many times around budget and policy matters tax and other things like -- number any idea I don't -- and we just looked that we just look at the White House law.
Now -- -- to 2012.
But in 2010.
Times you're at the White House.
And that's a lot.
A 132 members of congress contact you about this information.
42 major news stories about this very subject.
And you told congress a year ago I can give you assurances.
Nothing is going on.
Were not targeting conservative groups each -- you didn't talk to anyone at the White House about this issue mr.
About singling out conservative groups.
For special scrutiny.
Well that's or talk about isn't absolutely -- did not talk to and a 118 -- -- big come up in a casual conversation.
After a 132 members of congress contacted you about you Sherry didn't bring it up with anybody at the White House.
In knots in my memory and it wouldn't be appropriate.
And so I certainly believe I did not have any conversations.
At this point is there any.
Evidence that this is tied to the White House other than anecdotal evidence like that.
Well a couple things -- you right -- human Intel's anything nasty when it's hardly any question but but yes here's a here's one thing that thinks critically important.
The inspector general tipped off Doug Schulman.
May thirtieth of last year.
Five months before an election he told mr.
-- that there was a list.
That key terms like Tea Party 912 and -- were used to identify that list -- conservative groups who were getting extra scrutiny so he tipped off.
The Democrat administration.
Four days later he told the General Counsel at treasury.
But he didn't tell congress inspector general didn't tell our committee and when we were the ones who asked for the audit and where the committee that oversees all the inspector generals in the government.
They told the Democrat administration that these terms are being used to identify groups and they didn't tell us.
Megan that's something we'd like to know as Republicans in an election year and we didn't know that but the other side did.
And they kept -- quiet.
What do you think is gonna happen now with the lowest -- we had a segment about twenty minutes ago about whether that she had waived her fifth amendment rights by offering that opening statement.
Which she did have to do she could have gone and done it on the TV you know on TV.
On the on the steps of congress -- never knew before you what she chose to.
And now congressman -- said chairman -- is -- to be saying he's not done with her so what happens from here.
Well I think we're gonna try to get -- back and I think Darrell has is on solid ground I mean look they're legal scholars have been argue both sides I get all that.
But I thought what what congressman -- -- the committee look you can't come and insert your innocence and say I didn't do it.
On innocent I haven't done anything wrong.
And then not allow members of congress to question yes and here's the irony in all this -- She asserted her constitutional rights while she was trampling on thousands of Americans constitutional -- their First Amendment right to political speech.
She's still an employee of the IRS she still public servant I think taxpayers are still paying her salary coming into the questions -- -- -- predecessor for Lagos we watch these hearings and been fascinating to watch but there.
The one of the congressman came out after what I think -- the house Ways and Means Committee last week and Stephen Miller said -- the arrogance of that guy.
-- watching this as an observer.
Lerner did not go in -- hat in hand yesterday I mean she she barely you know and -- comes nice -- If if he these are the answer she had submitted writing she seemed disgusted that she even had a look at the document.
Mean is there act -- are you.
Picking up on a -- where -- the hat in hand that where does the we're sorry this was wrong have you seen that witness yet.
And ports that I'd like to have the same reaction you do.
You know these are supposed to be public servants.
Who serve the American people who serve the taxpayers to pay their salary you'd like to see a little bit more of that attitude displayed when they come in front of congress and when the answer questions.
Yeah well we'll continue to watch it'll be itching to see before -- go quickly to what do you do with -- Larry good US attorney try to get.
I contempt -- heard need to handle it within the congress.
I think we'll try within the congress first but chairman I say India and the lawyers worked for the oversight staff for working about as well as with as we're speaking out kept -- -- thank you for being here thank you.
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