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-- growth group that opposes your point of view.
And your donors were harassed as a result of that is that correct yes.
Right -- mark bump right next door -- the right -- -- groups very similar to.
What you do Iowa.
And it's -- You remember any rain for vice president.
It's and the head of the national organization were -- -- Conservative group says it was.
He ran passed by the revenue service.
-- -- -- And and I am glad.
That's because we have much to say much to do that would -- View.
It because -- indeed these hearings on these groups and say well -- that were targeted.
Respect -- treatment press they are giving their testimony today.
We'll talk about that we will talk also about Eric Holder we'll also talk about secret.
Rooms -- We will do that we will also include some more testimony from those victims of the IRS.
And we will do it all.
In fast fashion so let's not wait any longer to introduce you to Scott -- He -- a Republican he's a congressman he is from south central Pennsylvania.
Chris good morning nice to be here -- what we'll see we'll see if that holds.
So the question congressman -- this.
And I'd want to get to some work that you've been doing and that Chinese computer acting.
I want to ask you this in terms of what's going on with the IRS as we see these groups come forward.
As we see the quest here by members of your party.
To try to build the case against the agency were starting to see for the first time it Democrats are pretty bashed about this before but was starting to see for the first time from Jim McDermott.
And others some push back the Democrats are saying hey wait a minute maybe these people didn't deserve.
Some special scrutiny because maybe what they were doing was was not right.
While that that's -- that's an interesting take you would hope it would be bipartisan.
If it wasn't right.
Why what the unions that are in the same boat why weren't they -- And I don't see the Democrats that they hue and cry for that the point is is that this is day an instrument of government that -- used to target.
Individual citizen's individual groups for their political beliefs.
That's not something that that flies in America and -- today it might be conservative groups.
But what Democrats need to realize is that tomorrow it could be their groups and it.
Yeah that's the point is we don't do that America this is something from a Third World country.
And they should be concerned just like -- you are for the rights -- everybody equal protection under the law of everybody.
Not just Republicans not just Democrats not just liberals not just conservatives across the board it's supposed to be an impartial instrument of government and apparently they want to make it partisan.
Well what what's next what do you foresee happening next what's what's the next thing happened.
Well I think -- what you're gonna see is that this can continue continually drilling down to get the facts.
The fact the lead to the truth the truth will lead to what happens next -- At some point somebody has to be responsible just last fall President Obama used Harry Truman's quote that the buck stops here.
But right now what we're kind of seeing whether it's been -- see whether it's the I -- whether it's the Justice Department EPA.
Kathleen Sebelius the buck doesn't stop anywhere there's nobody responsible nobody held accountable they apologize and then they just walk away.
I guarantee you that it's private citizens if you committed a crime whether it was stealing a pack of chewing gum up from your local store or something much worse you would be.
Being pursued by the -- to the fullest extent.
And if and if crimes were committed here if they weren't if that's where the truth leads were going to want and Americans should and will demand more than just an apology.
And -- Want to ask you we get cute acting also this.
News today from the Associated Press about the scope the breath of the use of secret email accounts.
Secret government email accounts that by Obama appointees.
The administration says.
Note to Freedom of Information Act requests about this.
And these are you guys gonna get in on this game are you guys gonna push -- the disclosure.
There's note that we have to Congress's duty bound to to provide oversight.
And and why would you set up these secret email accounts if they were there was anything more than two.
-- the work for yet a request citizens have to -- the right to know what they're government officials are doing how they're making decisions why they're making decisions the way they are.
And and when I hear that the EPA director created a a secret account which received accolades which the account the person that they created actually conjured up a person.
And and and it created accounts for the person and that person and this account -- -- received awards.
You really got to wonder what's happening -- can we as Americans -- in the year American people.
Ever really know the truth that this is going on and apparently it's widespread and again we're wondering if through all these scandals this this is a larger culture.
And that is the real concerned Americans must trust and be able to trust in the government but when you see all these little chinks in the armor.
And and these these efforts that seemed to be.
Specifically designed to thwart finding the truth that's very concerning to Americans and and Congress's duty to bound to find out how far leads what does it mean.
What is hidden from the American people.
-- right now.
Are we at war.
Cyber medically -- China is is it seems like this it seems like that's where we are at least that's where we're headed.
Is that is that your assessment.
That's -- from a cyber standpoint that is my assessment you know.
They they steal intellectual property -- will we know it's they don't acknowledge it the government sponsors that whether directly or indirectly.
And that you know what we see things like our ships the very helicopter that I flew in combat.
Parts of those plans were taken by the cheap Chinese and what they're doing is is they're taking it what -- what they've got it's a leg up.
You know what we pay for that research in that development and that technology that gives us -- combat.
And a strategic advantage over our adversaries and our enemies they cut the time line 25 years and just taking that information.
From sources right here in America and it puts them quickly on parity with us and that should be concerned to every American and it does put us in -- -- difficult posture.
And I think that because of the debt that we continue to over the Chinese and continue to borrow from the Chinese it puts it as a disadvantage to negotiate.
And bargain and hold them accountable for what we know are these -- -- threat that's.
-- of our intellectual military property.
If you were from Gettysburg you know already that you aren't there you have congressman's got Kerry congressman we thank you for making time for us thanks Chris appreciated.
You -- Okay.
Let's do this collect yourself you've talked about -- -- warfare.
You've talked about IRS -- you talked about a lot of Internet related things so why don't we talk a little bit.
About one of the veterans on the and -- -- excellent -- you can editor is here we'll talk with them.
And that's is Tom Petty.
And he won't back down but well Eric Holder.
And this is power play yes I couldn't resist I'm sorry I'm sorry sometimes players just get stuck in my -- but Eric Holder.
Told -- house investigators.
Told -- Judiciary Committee.
That you don't let he probably didn't perjure himself because they never intended to charge James -- with the crime.
So when he told.
-- -- -- -- sworn testimony that he didn't intend.
Or didn't want.
To prosecute journalists forward obtaining stories that -- since the error -- mostly but certainly not perjury.
So what about that -- colder and he's seen it program well he not back down.
You continuity -- the sport and -- under.
-- under evaluated Q earlier the editor in chief of the Washington -- weekend.
Which was just cited in the previous segment.
Thank you for having -- Chris.
All right so Eric Holder.
Before we do that.
Let's give a little let's get a little framework if you guys have done it worked on this from from which stole today.
I credited you with it.
The irony of Lisa Jackson former EPA administrator getting an ethics award being awarded an ethics certificate.
And -- that's shooting and they can email me.
-- -- -- -- In which which Richard Windsor was her alias was set to be strong ethical standing by -- okay.
But the situations previously seemed to be isolated in the yet broke loose today across the government as the AP said.
We've been trying for three months to find out how many of these things there are where they are.
The government will comply -- up to and including a million dollar request from the environmental or from the Department of Labor.
To comply with this well you wanna know everybody's email accounts -- check from billion dollars -- process.
Because it believes staying it is fascinating it takes this whole issue of that email accounts due to another level and I think it actually.
Jibes with what we're seeing with the IRS.
In some ways cents if I'm -- you know for four years now Chris we've had this sense the political class in Washington is out of touch.
And we do focus groups when you read the results of focus groups like I -- There's been a long simmering.
Anger at Washington DC from Americans they feel like they don't control the government that it's that it's -- detached that they're not participate.
And so every story like this whether it's IRS.
We're targeting Tea Party groups whether it's the secret email accounts but it's the creation of a whole alternative alternate identity.
On the part of this Lisa Jackson and -- Richard Windsor.
It and it feeds into this sense that something seriously wrong with Washington it's.
And it Richard Windsor -- super.
In terms of making statement that it well we found out that she is actually very creative person giving him awards show us out out to -- there she was.
Using that email account completed training so she -- just nominate him.
The war that was just that was what that was -- team.
Is back him in full and full zone and we miss you beautiful in the fullness of mocked him.
The -- I think.
Asked this question Eric Holder didn't prosecute intend to prosecute James Risen by the day.
Shop that -- around why did they go to three judges.
To find -- he would do -- But he can pass the test of perjury right if he says we got the warrant through ill gotten mean it's right.
I think so I mean of perjury succeed -- really ran such a gray area.
-- did the lesson here is and I believe we talked about this on your show before and I said holders days are numbered when this all this.
Broke out and I think that continues to be the case yesterday Jay Carney got up briefing reporters and had to beat him on the record quote.
From the chief of staff McDonough saying what the chief of staff appreciates Eric Holder he's fine attorney general.
As soon as you start having to say that in public you know that the knives are out -- so for me it's just a matter of time.
But what what will be the triggering mechanism to move holder out where to find some reason.
To you know we won't be tied to the rose in case will be -- some other personal matter -- attack -- Right -- it'll be it'll be the entire day you know he's -- -- -- up.
-- this one of the secrets in this and you know this.
You gotta stay long enough to be useful and -- -- -- you have to be you have to you have to let all of the fullness of his scandal.
Come out so that then you can then you can go and take it with -- so that the and the guy who the president points.
And -- president went -- some federal judge would have been Michael Mukasey role and a noncontroversial.
Who you bring and -- can you confirm that that's he's got to stay long enough to be useful -- That's right and it's so that's why it it seems to me -- even bleed over into next year terms of the scandal let's not forget -- felt.
As Defense Secretary is under harsh criticism from the left and the right during the Iraq War for years it wasn't until after the democratic victory.
2006 that he.
Properties resignation -- -- so yeah so it could be in the 2014 bit.
But -- what one thing is for sure right now and that is Eric holder's political power Washington's.
It's -- It's below its name it's below we sit here and -- I don't know Nader maybe that that's Ralph Nader I'm not sure.
I am off this.
You know what she does she follows me on Twitter is -- follows me -- Twitter.
Have been security as my column there -- -- secret -- -- confidence in embattled administration.
But she says.
Much love for your -- reporting skills it's been awhile since -- as the Soviet.
Much look for your -- reporting skills we call you Chris dire wolves.
Hope that's a compliment.
Okay dire wolf yeah I -- is watch out yeah the people with dire wolves that a farewell what showed that HBO show that is put it.
Where did that damn game of brown yes -- -- San Diego I'm gonna go complimentary it is a compliment it is that I just it's just like your back because he cautioned.
I'm gonna go with dire wolf from The Grateful Dead song.
Please don't murder me so I'm gonna I'm gonna go with that I think that's -- that's I think that's a good standard to keep.
But whatever you do follow me that's -- -- on the twitters and you can have my stuff.
Annually and it -- so holder my bet on older is about August.
It'll be time to shuffle off to.
Man and and and lay low for -- -- of -- -- I'd even go back to Fannie and Freddie.
Is that an already very area -- and eminently capable he's got to go.
Academia for you right -- thing about Washington is once you come here you know differently so I'm sure he'll have some job -- and he'll he'll he'll be fine.
But for Obama it's the only good outcome.
I -- worried about it -- -- get a look the bottom of the outcome will be very bad because what's.
If you lose a close friend you have to accept his resignation then it means here.
You know your -- that -- stance that would of course it is now when it and it seems to.
Acknowledged that Washington to the point where they're now saying the critics of Republicans announcing what the Republicans are -- -- overreach on these scandals.
There's no evidence of that so hard thing.
-- to this date the house Republicans in particular that -- Trying to get the facts out and -- I think is at a couple of little.
Which is he did admit that that the White House seized up and I think they'll be it -- Get -- -- and let -- again it's fear.
Grave let let let him -- -- for a while.
And what looked great out there look like -- that's not what you'd never know that's part of the funds -- -- back some -- you -- know -- answers beard it's you know it just adds to the intrigue of Syria a few congressman -- center if you're gonna surprise exactly a lot of predictable era there -- again he's keeping us guessing.
You're not keeping it yet.
Excellence is right.
Thank you okay look.
It's been too long.
It's been too long and -- -- they treated you to some of the very best features -- -- the best is that folks -- today and that bass is Annie Lee and Brett blatant.
Maybe your favorite -- and all of -- all will be here when we come back so you should.
Providing tax subsidies.
That are not engaged exclusively.
In social welfare whether their name is progress taxes.
-- And that is little -- -- occasion that is going house Ways and Means Committee hearing.
Probing iris misconduct as it relates to the people who don't like Democrats.
Who try to organize groups across the country this power play.
Welcome back now as that hearing continues.
As that hearing continues.
Would be are left to wonder we are left wondering whether or not these stories that -- oh and art and go viral.
What happened in the mid and late 1990s.
Was that the horror stories told by American taxpayers about their treatment at the hands of the -- became part of the cultural lexicon.
And led to the first round of serious reforms for the agency's one years is that going to happen again.
Or will they be chalked up -- Political groups and not listen to people who know the difference.
Between what sticks and what doesn't to the national narrative.
Former senior senator agree she's president and strategies she -- but -- -- -- with four and -- a lot of -- Democrats.
So and you're always minutes into law.
Here wells notice she -- it's -- well.
I'm -- way out.
This little distance.
Red like that we want -- distance from Bradley and he's a former senior advisor to president George W.
Over his Republican strategist and statesman nearly -- -- also know.
Professor at Georgetown university and is I'm reminded when you're on Nazi go poisons Tuesday when this -- -- -- tax rate.
But just need to.
When it whatever yeah whatever OK so the Republicans.
So far -- in making everybody who voted him in -- or.
Shock that the IRS did well.
But the the Democrats Republicans like that say this is -- we hate this.
But it doesn't really get to go forward if people are.
If the victims are sympathetic figures right and if the victims.
Of the abuse of people that that Americans don't like that it's -- wrong.
Whatever like the IRS mailed out Al Capone on tax evasion he didn't get it -- -- Are the do you think these people will be sympathetic enough.
-- -- -- There is nothing wrong with the IRS opening up investigations where they weren't ever allegedly Brit that -- -- they have dinner -- -- that they were only targeting one specific kind of group.
With very specific words and that's where they went right we saw.
An increase in the people that our client for prevalent seat for so it's natural ability to ask those weaknesses -- questions but the -- which they did.
-- the I think it witnesses that are there it is.
In what will make them more sympathetic -- when they tell that they were maliciously targeted that they were unfairly targeted that they were.
Above and -- beyond what would be a normal investigation.
Or auditory or whatever -- -- diagram -- which the IRS does so they have this show -- that they weren't engaged in anything nefarious themselves.
That there was warrant for whether or not the screen -- there wasn't.
Think that's what we'll make incident that it was just a complete with China and fishing mission by the higher and that's that's -- Yeah.
Republicans after all I mean -- people can be excused for a moment.
I was -- extra I was target by the IRS for two years that your personal gesture that might donors to my 51 -- four or targeted.
Personally I think it to a new level this happened in 2009 under the direction of learners office.
We knew that we were targeted politically we couldn't prove it but now when you put two and two together.
It's clear that we -- target even after we went.
Out of business quarter and quote.
We -- to operate -- 524 I have a two year investigation.
I was personally liable iris down against me to write and -- cheaters like donors -- -- liability found against them.
No liability terms of the resource -- how much.
You say that cost -- group and its ability to do its business hundreds of thousands of dollars.
And it's not very pleasant when the iris is sitting across the table -- you basically telling you guilty plea prove yourself in -- butt -- to this point.
That was those were hundreds of thousands of dollars -- not -- -- that's -- but even after we ceased to do business.
We were targeted right so we we wound down freedom's watch.
But then think of the -- getting a letter.
Don't -- chilling effect and any future contributions that he or she made me.
To an organization knowing that the IRS this -- -- watching what you're doing.
Helped me if you seek other employment mr.
Glickman you -- they wanna stay away from the Bible and see for world because we're gonna come after you for your compensation.
I mean this is not America.
So is there a chance and I know my answer that depresses me advancement is -- -- chance of the kind of bipartisan.
Move for real reform.
Inside the IRS that -- because remember this do not forget this in the 1990s Bill Clinton -- opportunity in the IRS and took away from the Republicans he saw the Republican's marching down this path.
Makes -- Rob Portman -- It is just because I had she ran -- -- the Democratic Governors Association sex act -- -- -- and that's a quirk in the law.
In the iris code that allows -- to to operate in a political fashion.
Ian so -- we have to disclose that because -- Clinton meals and had to disclose their donors has -- at least I was on another vehicle that we engage in.
Political activity and not disclose their owners let's go to Bible 24 -- Republicans for the first -- on that either Lindsay or -- Democrats Tennessee -- -- but the fact we got in the serial.
There -- we got an O -- did we ever get yeah big time in so.
All of these groups earn and deserve to have -- -- I -- I had to go to scrutiny to prove that I had 51%.
You know social mission that was out there that it was it was all political -- in the -- where that I wrote.
But again it's unfair targeted.
That is wrong and that does need to be exposed and that does need to come to life and hopefully.
That activity was -- reforms will be.
I mean -- what it is too high right I need something with in the IRS.
Did the American people are gonna ask for something whether it's you know that was.
-- was -- regular public Hughes and the perfect opportunity is called for an abolition and abolishment.
The virus tax experts -- yes do you don't know code I guess what -- -- the I really as a real chance and I said.
Them against a sentence skepticism.
We are skeptical of your excellent and about Bradley Wednesday.
Yes that's that that's where it's at the IRS may think a lot that they did not completely.
Act I will not -- that it will not from your cold dead hands okay Internet.
On the job and that's next and -- like that and now as we like to do every day we only do the work from entrance.
I think -- -- we should not be making personal attacks.
We're growing up -- leave that to me.
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