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The IRS -- Admitted to targeting conservatives.
Even if the White House continues to be stuck on the word if now my question isn't about who's going to be for resigned.
My question is who's going to jail over this -- The IRS scandal is even more frightening than we first thought and now some of those conservative groups have been targeted are planning to sue.
-- even a man it was already going to retire.
-- anyone really be held accountable.
With me now former United States -- -- commissioner -- And chief counsel for the American Center for Law and Justice.
On good evening gentlemen.
Good evening aren't commissioner -- -- start with you are you aware of this kind of political targeting.
Happening at the IRS when you were the commissioner.
No not at all audible let me just say this.
In my experience everybody at the service to their level best to stay clear of politics.
In fact judge we had an initiative.
In the all for the 06 election cycles.
-- we looked at churches and charities that were accused of politic in those are.
The -- -- -- threes and you may know they can't.
Abdicate for against a specific candidate.
We got a lot of complaints and the same -- -- Took a look at the work we did that Russell George you testified yesterday.
And they concluded that the work was balance they made suggestions about being more time -- better guidance but there was none of this so.
This surprises media than the work that was done it's it's really -- atrocious and -- balance.
All right stand -- -- you would agree then commissioner that they what you're seeing now.
Is something that is has only happened during the Obama administration based upon what you did when you were the -- commissioner.
Well -- a departure let me cover a couple of points have been made when your -- previous pieces -- I -- I mean I think that this did.
The one issue is what happened in Cincinnati and what they set up on the screen say they put in place -- absolutely wrong I don't believe though that a word could have come down from the top.
As has been implied.
Look only at these groups what is what is a problem though is that.
Once management was aware of it management did not act to corrected and then there's a whole question of the candor in dealing with a congress which my life for myself equally series.
-- -- then once management was aware of it and they didn't corrected it makes them complicit doesn't not chase local law.
It does end and -- with due respect to market and I bought my first job out of law school was with -- counsel's office of the IRS and the tax exempt group was.
One of our clients but let me days and we know what deputy secretary of the treasury.
Was aware of this over a year ago nothing changed we know that the head of the tax exempt was aware bit and actually put a criteria.
In place secondary frontier which actually was worse than that we're looking at groups that -- in favor of improving America the -- learning about the constitution.
So the deputy secretary the president behind where I don't think there's nothing that's red that's malfeasance at a very high level.
Market market yeah I said that we are targeting not what I want service as I understand the timeline.
What was Warner acted to control the group and it was slow she was way slow -- hot water that you couldn't help but -- -- -- -- -- and she might.
-- -- -- -- -- Let's let's wait let's get through the hearings here let's.
Let's let's hear what happens -- from the hearings and and what happened was this group MR I after he had his eyes of the waiting for three years for the attack and and and I think that's horrible that -- portals and JJ go ahead I.
-- -- -- out with your clients change.
Yeah -- got the declines have been waiting three years for their tax exempt status they were asked what books they read.
Who they were in contact with did they ever speak to their state representatives.
-- -- what's our membership please give your donor lists all of this -- you know market and I have a lot of respect what you did the RS what it is not only illegal -- inappropriate it's unconstitutional they have no right to it.
And it's been three years so we've got no choice I write even notified treasury on Monday saying look these applications -- pending now.
Three years you're under scrutiny we know there's targeting just grant exemptions are ready for these ten groups.
No response from -- counsel's office no response from the IRS no response from the treasury I got no choice but to get a declaratory judgment at a minimum.
Up from a federal court and that's what we're gonna do again I have a lot of respect for the -- to.
But I will tell you that's when the deputy secretary of the treasury is aware of this does nothing to stop -- that tells me there's a problem high up and the president of the United States refuses to answer a question asked did anybody in the White House note in his answer is no I did not know about the inspector general report.
They're bringing this on themselves what they need to do just come clean.
And tell us what happened we know -- targeting we know was illegal and they need to give these group there exemptions they're entitled to it by law.
Gonna let me just say one -- 100% -- what you just said about these delays.
This rope a dope if you will -- just in most questions.
There's no place for that that's wrong and in fact.
One thing that disturbs me is a fact that none of the applications were tonight if the applications world.
-- incorrect they each something should've been denied just putting you an accord or where you're waiting endlessly that that is not the right.
Approach but again let's let all the facts come out here in an end and see who needs to be accountable is already has been set but.
You know what their authority is this is like I -- -- you are in a good decision gentlemen gentlemen when you're in a position.
That you missed two election cycles because -- decision was not made to me that's just as bad because if you deny it at least it can be appealed from.
This what you've got no -- course.
Right Jay Wright.
Yeah that's the problem and lowest -- -- by the way we knew about this two years ago.
Did nothing about it -- put in a corrective criteria which I said was is actually works.
Never followed up with the Cincinnati -- -- -- by the way is the largest processing office for tax exempt in the United States I've got a letter from lawyers at treasury at the IRS from Washington DC I've got.
Tax exempt specialist from California this was all over the country but no one's asked for what was the resignation.
-- the tax exempt position that she's still holds.
-- they they put up Mark Miller who's gonna resign in a month.
And they move -- everybody wait so that is what is stated that -- -- actually taken nor by forty is a native of back.
-- -- nice being asked to resign other than this guy is already resigned.
-- they're for different pieces of this there's the activity down in Cincinnati and night we haven't been told what the discipline has been for those individuals.
Then there's the question of Powell's Cincinnati was supervisors gave us -- and you're saying judge.
From from the taxes and group headed by -- it would slow it took way too long.
Then there's the question of how the supervision was exercised overall from the front office.
This was no secret I got calls from fox another.
Players and what do you think of all the seaport tonight didn't take the calls right and answer because -- and I don't know much about it in my watch it was about the -- raise.
But there was no secret here in the front office should've gotten on this and found out what was going on in the bowels of the agency when people like G-8 were racing.
Didn't like Orrin -- unless of course market they already -- and there was nothing to stop.
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