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Fact that our top story and a former CIA and NSA staffer who has revealed himself as the source of the leaks and the government spying program.
29 year old Edwards noted says he acted in the public's interests.
And that the extent of the surveillance that we've now learned of goes far beyond.
What most people suspect.
Any analyst -- any time can target any one any selector anywhere.
We're -- communications will be picked up depends on the range of the sensor networks from the authorities that that analysts is and power -- it's not all analysts have the ability to target everything.
But I -- my desk certainly have the authorities to to wiretap anyone.
From did you -- your accountant to a federal judge to even the president for -- -- personally now.
-- joining -- now Simon Rosenberg president and founder of -- take Andy and and a former Clinton Campaign advisor.
And Monica Crowley who's a Fox News contributor and author of what the bleep just happened.
And he went on to say you are not even aware of what's possible be extended their capabilities as horrifying we can plant bugs in machines.
If I wanna see your emails -- -- following all I have to do is use intercepts I can get your emails passwords phone records credit cards.
And so on and yet that begs the question that you are here to discuss witches.
Traitor or hero Simon.
You know the more that we learn about what's happened here the more upset I think the American people should be -- Clinton Greenwald said this morning on another television network that.
He's been given information like the names of agents clandestine agents around the world and much more information than has been released and that he's gonna decide.
What gets released.
You know we have these these revelations -- come out.
At a time which seem actually designed to undermine the president is negotiating -- position.
In what was a really significant set of negotiations the Chinese about their horrible behavior online in the way that they've stolen secrets from the United States.
And it was seem to be and actually -- disrupt that and we found out that he did it while he was in China right I mean this is this is a bad situation.
We got to come down hard on this guy.
And and I am you know I am will see how the the government responds in the coming days.
Where you think Monica.
Well I don't disagree with Simon to this extent although I think that the question of is here hero or traitor.
I think it's a bit too stark I think it's much more new wants and that Megan I agree with Simon to this extent that he -- probably done enormous damage to our national security.
In terms of giving our enemies a heads up about what we're doing here in an untold.
-- case is that perhaps we're looking into in terms of terrorism in -- threats and so on.
But I also think you can be on the side of wanting our national security secrets protected.
As well as being deeply concerns.
About potential abuses of these surveillance programs.
What he said yesterday in his interview with the guardian and Glenn Greenwald.
Is that we now have the infrastructure.
Of repression in this country he called it turn key tearing me.
So I think -- is a lot of very serious concerns about the extent to which the federal government.
May be intruding on your privacy done in the name of national security and again I agree with Simon he should be prosecuted to the wall.
Fullest extent of the -- to -- we -- extradited back to the United States from Hong Kong.
But I do think it's a little more nuanced -- the conversations that we have been.
-- there are some discussions -- and I mean I'm I'm looking at.
At one piece.
That was written for cnn.com by Douglas brush top that is entitled Edwards noted is a hero and talks about the risks that he took the personal -- -- -- Job paid about 200000 dollars a year is -- in in Hawaii.
29 year old college drop out making a lot of go.
And you didn't have to do this but felt that he didn't want to live in a country.
In which are quote our very humanity was being compromised.
Buys -- by the blind implementation of machines in the name of making us safe that's from the author map from that the -- Sign an he came out one of things he's he said was.
Did the documents -- -- revealed that the NSA routinely lies in response to congressional inquiries about the scope of surveillance in America we just played that -- -- Does he have a point.
Well I think that the point here is that governments now have unprecedented tools to spy on their own people.
And to spy on people who live in other countries we've never had a situation.
Before like this in human history.
We're gonna have to establish new norms.
Both domestically here in the US.
To ensure that the American people have faith and confidence in the way that their government is managing.
This incredible new power but we also have to do more and this is.
When I'm sorry is not getting discussed today.
Is we have to do more to ensure that countries like Russia and China -- -- not exactly.
It was from the operators in the global stage.
Are not also using their power to influence things going on here in the United States the theft.
Of American property intellectual property by the Chinese in the last five or six years is the largest set of theft of goods -- property probably in.
In a manner of history -- gets crazy and and we're not even talking about that now -- and we would have been talking about that this is what I mean about the timing of the leaks last week they seem to be.
-- -- -- designed to undermine the United States at a moment of discussion with the Chinese the first time.
Our president was willing to sit down the Chinese and really confront them over what they were doing inside the United States that isn't being debated today and say we're talking about I would -- I'm upset about -- -- -- does it does it in anyway seat our moral authority in some ways Monica in sets in said discussions you know I mean for.
These countries get a turnaround and say what you worry less about -- -- and you wouldn't worry more about used by an -- people.
You're right exactly and that's one of the big issues that Simon just pointed to and I agree with c'mon guys look I also don't think it's a coincidence that mr.
-- and fled to Hong Kong.
And now there's some conversation that he may in fact defect to the Chinese Beijing still has control over Hong Kong when it comes to defense and and foreign policy.
So that he falls into these gray area here Beijing could say.
We're not gonna allow him to be extradited to the United States for prosecution.
Because we want to flip him and -- whenever Intel we can possibly gain from him and all of these matters.
We don't know how it's gonna work out legally but you know that the discussion people are having -- didn't do we have the right to know this -- -- you know is it.
I -- our rally on Thursday night and -- it's a what's the big headline of the day and I I said.
That this is happening in other added that it came out that this is happening there had been a report back in 2006 and USA today -- it was happening.
But bid administration did not confirm it the way it did this time -- sort of died out now been confirmed that it's happening -- -- broader than we knew.
Do we have the right -- know that and then to debate and discuss it.
Yes and and I think that you know you could argue that if there's any good comes of this them and certainly -- looks like there's going to be much more harm.
And good is that you know we're now gonna have a debate in your having an hour -- -- now we're gonna talk about what our.
Capabilities are are the mechanisms in place and as John Bolton said I don't often agree with ambassador Bolton.
You know these kids but how do you what do you eyewitness -- administering -- strange.
I doubt I doubt we'll -- well it's interesting is that what he said was look how many checks and balances there actually are here and the question is is there enough checks and balances for whether to Democrat or Republican president a Democrat Republican congress.
Do the American people really feel they can trust the system that's put in place.
Not to intervene and to be clear about something -- said in that interview which I think was slightly misleading and has been -- getting.
Talked about in the chat rooms is that he said he had the power -- the authorities well that's actually not true he would have needed.
Court orders and more higher level authority actually go in and look at somebody Kate.
I've been done one thing capability if he had done that he would have broken the law itself and and we got to certainly.
-- on that from members of the Intel committee rise in -- in the congress saying the right he he is overstating what he in Italy ability to do is one thing but.
That you know actually doing it is another and what -- what -- that -- and it's interesting to think of you know Glenn Greenwald sitting there now as a result of these leaks holding.
The names of our agents you know undercover operatives and whose lives could be in danger if you know his -- -- compromiser he.
Decides to publish that information -- there's a reason why we make people like mr.
-- take an oath not.
To do this somebody's -- that's exactly right and if were able to extradite him again he will be facing that charge it -- It may not be a treason charge it may not even be an espionage charge but it could be.
Disclosing top secret information which he was sworn.
Good to upholds and he violated that so he could be facing not chart.
But but some -- is really interesting point about trust and I think this is why we're having this conversation.
You know when the picture acts act was first passed.
It was sort of a general understanding that these kinds of surveillance program -- when they were disclosed during the bush years -- That they were targeted to terrorists and suspected terrorists now are finding out that -- there's a huge dragnet in which every American.
Innocent suspected terrorists or not is being caught up in this this is what we're having this conversation.
Who sanctioned that broadening.
Of this we've got members of congress on the right say an -- -- that it.
We're MS NN and I -- with all due respect to our authorities in power it's it's not clear summit try to make clear what I what I understand ramp.
But it seems to be the dragnet collects the data they get the records of you -- you and me.
Everybody watching but they can't then look at the records and provide analysis of the records.
Unless they take another step because they have reason to believe that we're talking to some foreign terrorists that that -- and and I -- I don't understand is still in place -- -- take any pause.
Was when I heard President Obama.
Talking about how if they want to listen to your phone calls they have to go to the court needed -- -- that's the only time they need to take the extra steps well right that that's not.
I don't think that's right and I look at clapper has written statement illiquid Dianne Feinstein said last week they both seem to be telling us.
-- even to review the information we've collected we got to go to court.
So we'll see -- mean this is one of the reasons why people want to know more and they wanna figure out exactly what's happening for the make up their minds it is thank you both so much for -- over the next many that I can.
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